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Jameta

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:53 pm


redface Thanks. The light bulb was one for a bit. razz

My friend is strongly against the concept. To add to the mix, here's her case:
DragonicFlames
1)"Otherkin Exists because we are a "past life" form in a human body."

Do you even remember how many past lives you've had? If you don't, then you don't know what creatures you could have been before you were a human. You could have been a tree, frog, rabbit, wolf, human, human, rose, mushroom, beetle, human, bunny, and currently are human.

If all you remember is your bunny "life" does that make all the REST of your past lives not count? Of course they count. They are part of you and your experiences. That would be like saying your little toe doesn't count because it's tiny.

Do you remember all your actions as a human? No you don’t, which also proves the mentally your brain isn’t capable to handle all the memories that are being made currently. This makes one wonder how you “know” you’re an otherkin if your brain can’t even remember what you were like when you were two.

It’s a hellva lot easier just to realize that you are now human and that's what you'll be till you die.

2) "Otherkin Exists because when we astral project out of our bodies we can take the form of a (insert misc. Myth. Creature.)"

Ok, how do you know you're astral projecting? Why should I believe you in the first place about your personal experience that you have no evidence on?

Let's pretend I believe you. In any dream you can gain control of your dream and make it happen as you want. Essentially that's where you can start astral projecting. You can willingly change your form in this state of lucid dreaming and become something completely else. If I can make Johnny Depp appear in my dreams, you can make yourself look like a (insert misc. Myth. creature.)

Go look up some facts (notice facts, aka not some Silver Ravenwolf BS…) about Lucid Dreaming, and we’ll continue on how you are a “mythical creature” when you dream/astral project.

3) "Otherkin Exists because We think we should have been an animal. Like the transsexuals."

Ok first of all, Transsexuals may or may not have genetic problems and MOST CERTAINLY have hormone imbalances that make them more of the opposite sex. Those are HUMAN Genes and HUMAN Hormones. I don't see where there is a say "Squid" hormone in your body.

Secondly, how can you “know” what you “should have been”? You can’t even remember what you were like when you were two, how can you “know” what you “should have been”, when you can’t even remember your current body’s past?

Thirdly, is there some big catalog in the sky where you can pick out what body you are going to be in? No, there isn’t. It’s not like the universe fumbled and messed up your body order. That’s one of the stupidest excuses for otherkin. What you “should have been” is what you are right now. End of story. Just because you’ve got these big ideas about what you “should have been” doesn’t mean they are true. They are nothing but false opinions that have been festering since you learned about otherkin in the first place.

You ARE human. The sooner you realize that the better you are off.

4) "I'm Otherkin because I act catty."

Oh really? Does that mean you can jump from high heights and land on your feet? Last time I checked the cat's tail is one of the main things that makes the cat land on its feet. Since you obviously don't have a tail... Can you lick your butt? No? Didn't think so.

Keyword "act". I can "act" like a vampire. But does that make me a vampire? No. It doesn't.

Now the other thing I will add here is that, I personally believe that MOST otherkin that use this excuse or use the number 5 excuse is that they are having totem animal association problems. That they feel "catty" because their totem animal is a cat and is very present in their lives. And suddenly they adopt this separate entity as a part of their personality. And they start thinking that hey "I'm a cat". It's because they cannot separate where the Human ends and the totem animal begins.

5) "I'm Otherkin because I wings and claws all the time/ I'm otherkin because I know what it feels like to be a (insert animal)"

In the famous words of Hume, How do you know? How do you know what wings, claws, and what an animal feels like? Hume states that the human mind is LIMITED in what it can know. And if we cannot state something for definite what we KNOW then we don't have any "knowledge" at all.

You can't POSSIBLY know what it feels like to be (insert animal) because you haven't experienced being that animal.

And for that "Well the limbless feel limbs..." Yes because they have HAD experience WITH their limbs.

6) "I'm otherkin because metaphysically I believe I am."

Hume really is a big bust on you isn’t he? How do you know that your imagination isn’t limited? That’s right I said your imagination, because that’s what controls what you see in your mind’s eye. You can “think” all you want and “believe” all you want that you’re a squid, but your body is going to disprove you every time you look in the mirror. Metaphysics is limited itself, and most metaphysicists argue with each other all the time about different things that pertain to metaphysics. Such as the limitation of the human mind and its imagination skills.

No “mind over matter” is going to change your body into a squid. End of story.

Again if you do not know your limitations how can you state you know something.

7) "I have these memories of another life so I must be whatever I was in my memories."

Those are memories that you could possibly have made up. Remember the whole "astral projection" deal. You can't prove it to me. But let's say I believe you.

Letter A) How many memories do you think you have of just ONE life. You were in that life for a WHOLE LIFE TIME. Which means you could have millions. What did we say in rule number 2? That there are many past lives you can't account for that you might have had? So that means you could have a googleplex of memories that you just don't remember about.

And you still can’t remember what you were like when you were two, yet you remember all these other lives? What part of “hallucinations” don’t you understand?

Letter B) Which Memories are fake? Can you tell? There is a very likely chance that you falsely remember something, just because well you want to remember something. I remember stuff in my dreams and I think they've happened in the morning and when I get to that point in the day I get slightly frustrated because my dream lead me to believe that happened when it didn't. The mind is a very particular thing. It can play tricks.

An insane person never believes his insane. Because his mind is telling him that he is sane. Your mind is one of the most dangerous weapons that can be used against you because you basically know nothing about what it can hold. Hell if the mind can make ten to fifteen different series of dreams in one night’s time, then it can make up whole life times of memories that didn’t happen at all.

You’ve been thoroughly disproved.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:33 pm


Jameta
So, if you were supposed to drop the burdens of your past life, why should you go back to carrying them?

My main thorn with Otherkin and the like is that a large number of people who believe they are insert creature here are "trapped" within a human body. In my perspective, you are not put into a form willy-nilly (of course, I consider there to be purpose to life; this would not hold if one sees the universe as being simply there). You have a body for a reason. Perhaps you are supposed to do something for the species you are in, or you are supposed to learn a certain lesson. Perhaps, if it is a lesson to learn, it is to learn how to deal with your past life experiences while in a different form. I am fairly irritated by the individuals who cling to their past life forms and, essentially, go wacko over it. This is not to say that I see everyone who calls themself Otherkin to be crazy; people could see my Eclectic Pagan path as nuts and not reconciable.

The smaller issues I have are the fantastic elements and inability to reasonably support them. I can believe that, out in the universe, there may very well be dragons, elves, and fairies. These could very well be eretheral creatures that people are able to interact with on this planet. But because these things are found within our myths, I do not see much credit in them. It could be considered that, because these figures occur within our mythologies, that it is reasonable, that the peoples that wrote the myths were interpreting information from their past lives. However, and anthropologists note this, many of the ancient creatures were exaggerations of known creatures, or, such as in the case of the Chimera, were made up of parts of creatures, and these beings represented concepts within the culture.

Further, humans have the ality to psyche themselves out to an incredible degree. While I see the parallel between Otherkin and transvestites, which have a form that can be percieved in the shared reality, I also see a parallel between them and hypocondriacs. The second group, through some way, beleive so strongly that they are sick that they do start showing symptoms of the disease they believe they are carrying. It could be said, then, in the case of phantom limbs, that a person may start to believe so strongly that they are supposed to have a tail or ears that they start to experience the missing limb sensation.

So, why would someone have an affinity to a creature? The factors could either lie in development or, oddly enough, past lives. In the first case, someone may be exposed to a strong connection with a concept or creature when they are younger. The extreme of this is seem with feral children, who are abandoned by their parents and (in some instances) raised by animals. Feral children are not only known to act and believe that they are an animal or the like, but it has been documented. In the second instance, it is possible that a strong connection between a creature/concept was developed in a past life that the incomplete transfer of information may confuse the current life. Now, I need to cross-reference my information, but this was the circumstance persented to me. I have cat-like tendencies, features and attitudes; my mother even dreamed that she was giving birth to a kitten rather than a baby. When I referred to a psychic, they put forth that I was not actually a cat, but I had been, essentially, a crazy cat lady in a past life. I looked to my cats for comfort and strength, and just as we may emulate those we look up to, I may have well emulated my cats.

Finally, on the note that the souls are those from creatures somewhere in space... I have yet to meet someone who's claimed to be a slime-slug or a galatic roach. The creatures I am presented with are all majestic, graceful, or in some way attractive to the human mind. I find this very odd, considering we're supposed to be recieving souls from the universe, which is immeasureable.

you are supposed to drop the past at an energetic level. . and, otherkins are not going back to the past, but, they never dropped it in the first place. . the reson they are otherkin is becuase whatever reason, they just could not let go of what they were...and in ways yes, this is bad. .

and, yes, that is true. . some otherkin walk around like they are the s**t and all they talk about is how they can "crush" you. . or do this or that becuase they are more special than you. . it isnt very productive, and I do suspect that many of them are sent to places like this to learn to be a bit more humble. . lol. . becuase, I have met a lot of powerful otherkin myself that can do a lot. . they are powerful, so when they are in a magick world, they tend to well, get their way. . and, I mean, piling up all that karma and they will eventually have to be send to a place where they are weaker so they can learn..

and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .

and, yes, I am sure that some people are really just making themselves beleiv ethey are something that they are not. . . but regardless of this, I still do beleive that some are true, as I can sense energy, I trust my senses to a degree, and some people do really just feel different. .

I am sure their probably are some otherkin that are not so attractive. . but, if peopel have memories of that, do you really think they are apt to share?. . "yah, I remember being a blob of ugly slime in a past life" isnt so appealing. .so, it is possible they are just not sharing their memories. .

and another reason is this. . the going theory about otherkin is many were "summoned" here to fight in the "war" if you kow what I mean. . anywyas, whoever did the summoning or ensuring that these souls had bodies, wanted to send strong powerful otherkin, becuase, that is kinda what a war requires. . that could also explain why people always claim to be something powerful and having an awsome form. . becuase, well, what is a slim blob going to do in a war?. .
now naturally I dont claim that any of this is 100% true, as, this I heard from others and am not sure of it myself. . but, just a possiblity. .

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:48 pm


psychelapis
and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .


Proving Christianity with Bible quotes.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:33 pm


The Resurrection
psychelapis
and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .


Proving Christianity with Bible quotes.
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:54 pm


psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .


Proving Christianity with Bible quotes.
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .


I don't see any Christianity either. I was trying to tell you that proving myths with myths gets you no where and does nothing for your argument.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:19 pm


The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .


Proving Christianity with Bible quotes.
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .


I don't see any Christianity either. I was trying to tell you that proving myths with myths gets you no where and does nothing for your argument.

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:36 pm


psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .


Proving Christianity with Bible quotes.
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .


I don't see any Christianity either. I was trying to tell you that proving myths with myths gets you no where and does nothing for your argument.

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.


I love the condescending tone of your entire post. Really, it's good to know how much you think of me just for disagreeing with you.

What you're talking about is no different from religion. Unless you can prove to me those that really "see" truly can "see" and don't just believe they can, you have no case and no business using the tone you used in your post. It's a matter of faith, no different from Christianity, Hinduism, or anything else.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it's you that can't "see" because of self inflicted delusions about the truth of reality. We'll likely never know.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:41 pm


The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
and about the myth part. . it has been said that long ago earth was a magickal place. . that, before the veil was put up, and the people changed, beings here used magick and could teleport around, so magickal creatures did supposedly walk this earth before. . then, when the veil went up, they stopped trying to project here or anything becuase they coudlnt for one, and if they did succeeed, they would not be able to project out so would be stuck here. .lol. .


Proving Christianity with Bible quotes.
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .


I don't see any Christianity either. I was trying to tell you that proving myths with myths gets you no where and does nothing for your argument.

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.


I love the condescending tone of your entire post. Really, it's good to know how much you think of me just for disagreeing with you.

What you're talking about is no different from religion. Unless you can prove to me those that really "see" truly can "see" and don't just believe they can, you have no case and no business using the tone you used in your post. It's a matter of faith, no different from Christianity, Hinduism, or anything else.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it's you that can't "see" because of self inflicted delusions about the truth of reality. We'll likely never know.

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:57 pm


psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .


I don't see any Christianity either. I was trying to tell you that proving myths with myths gets you no where and does nothing for your argument.

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.


I love the condescending tone of your entire post. Really, it's good to know how much you think of me just for disagreeing with you.

What you're talking about is no different from religion. Unless you can prove to me those that really "see" truly can "see" and don't just believe they can, you have no case and no business using the tone you used in your post. It's a matter of faith, no different from Christianity, Hinduism, or anything else.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it's you that can't "see" because of self inflicted delusions about the truth of reality. We'll likely never know.

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol


There's plenty to show a condescending tone. If you didn't intend it as such I'd suggest next time you revise how you express yourself.

And off of what I've posted shows little. I haven't had time to try the few basic things like even creating psyballs. College is just wrapping up for the semester and will actually leave me with time for something other than papers, work, and class.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:20 pm


The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
I dont see any bible quotes.

edit:. . if you dont beleive, that is your issue. . if you honestly think that in the grand scheme of things that only humanity and the animals on this planet exist, that is your deal. .
but, alas, this is what I have heard. . I wasnt in existance at the begining of earth so I cant really tell you exactly how it was. . just what I have heard, and if it is true, good stuff, if not, then oh well. . but, it makes sense that Earth would have been like the other realms are before the veil came up, since the veil is what keeps this place the way it is, besides all the people who maintain the veil as well. .


I don't see any Christianity either. I was trying to tell you that proving myths with myths gets you no where and does nothing for your argument.

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.


I love the condescending tone of your entire post. Really, it's good to know how much you think of me just for disagreeing with you.

What you're talking about is no different from religion. Unless you can prove to me those that really "see" truly can "see" and don't just believe they can, you have no case and no business using the tone you used in your post. It's a matter of faith, no different from Christianity, Hinduism, or anything else.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it's you that can't "see" because of self inflicted delusions about the truth of reality. We'll likely never know.

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol


There's plenty to show a condescending tone. If you didn't intend it as such I'd suggest next time you revise how you express yourself.

And off of what I've posted shows little. I haven't had time to try the few basic things like even creating psyballs. College is just wrapping up for the semester and will actually leave me with time for something other than papers, work, and class.

I typed it up like that to get the point across that you are not actually trying to see or know anything really. . just trying to intellectually say that otherkin are wrong without even trying to know for certain if it is true. .

and, I am not asking you to trust me and what I have found to be true. . but, to try to find out yourself what you honestly find to be true(not just citing off logic). . and, I know time constraints stink . I am a full time college student who has to commute for 2 hours each way to even get to my college, and then I have work after school as well. . but, when you do get the time, maybe try to look into clairvoyance and the such. .maybe astral projection would also help you see that the universe is quite a different place then what we see here with these limited physical eyes. .
but, good luck with that.. ^^ maybe come back and tell us what you find out when you get your senses open. .

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:29 pm


psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.


I love the condescending tone of your entire post. Really, it's good to know how much you think of me just for disagreeing with you.

What you're talking about is no different from religion. Unless you can prove to me those that really "see" truly can "see" and don't just believe they can, you have no case and no business using the tone you used in your post. It's a matter of faith, no different from Christianity, Hinduism, or anything else.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it's you that can't "see" because of self inflicted delusions about the truth of reality. We'll likely never know.

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol


There's plenty to show a condescending tone. If you didn't intend it as such I'd suggest next time you revise how you express yourself.

And off of what I've posted shows little. I haven't had time to try the few basic things like even creating psyballs. College is just wrapping up for the semester and will actually leave me with time for something other than papers, work, and class.

I typed it up like that to get the point across that you are not actually trying to see or know anything really. . just trying to intellectually say that otherkin are wrong without even trying to know for certain if it is true. .

and, I am not asking you to trust me and what I have found to be true. . but, to try to find out yourself what you honestly find to be true(not just citing off logic). . and, I know time constraints stink . I am a full time college student who has to commute for 2 hours each way to even get to my college, and then I have work after school as well. . but, when you do get the time, maybe try to look into clairvoyance and the such. .maybe astral projection would also help you see that the universe is quite a different place then what we see here with these limited physical eyes. .
but, good luck with that.. ^^ maybe come back and tell us what you find out when you get your senses open. .


Logic is the way through which we can know. I find the general idea of psy far more logical than a lot of people do and thus I pursue it. Hell, you should have seen how I talked about psyvamps before it was explained it to me in a much more logical fashion.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:01 pm


The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis

hense the edit. . I got the point. . but, the fact is that their is no solid way to prove anything in the psychic realm. . all predictions could be said to be coincidences or cold readings or whatnot. . their is no solid proof for anything. . only in your heart. . if you could see, which clearly you cant. . if you could know, again, which you clearly cant. . you would have an understanding that beats an intellectual one any day of the week. .
but go ahead and use your words instead of trying to actually know something. . not really my style though.


I love the condescending tone of your entire post. Really, it's good to know how much you think of me just for disagreeing with you.

What you're talking about is no different from religion. Unless you can prove to me those that really "see" truly can "see" and don't just believe they can, you have no case and no business using the tone you used in your post. It's a matter of faith, no different from Christianity, Hinduism, or anything else.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it's you that can't "see" because of self inflicted delusions about the truth of reality. We'll likely never know.

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol


There's plenty to show a condescending tone. If you didn't intend it as such I'd suggest next time you revise how you express yourself.

And off of what I've posted shows little. I haven't had time to try the few basic things like even creating psyballs. College is just wrapping up for the semester and will actually leave me with time for something other than papers, work, and class.

I typed it up like that to get the point across that you are not actually trying to see or know anything really. . just trying to intellectually say that otherkin are wrong without even trying to know for certain if it is true. .

and, I am not asking you to trust me and what I have found to be true. . but, to try to find out yourself what you honestly find to be true(not just citing off logic). . and, I know time constraints stink . I am a full time college student who has to commute for 2 hours each way to even get to my college, and then I have work after school as well. . but, when you do get the time, maybe try to look into clairvoyance and the such. .maybe astral projection would also help you see that the universe is quite a different place then what we see here with these limited physical eyes. .
but, good luck with that.. ^^ maybe come back and tell us what you find out when you get your senses open. .


Logic is the way through which we can know. I find the general idea of psy far more logical than a lot of people do and thus I pursue it. Hell, you should have seen how I talked about psyvamps before it was explained it to me in a much more logical fashion.


I am not saying that logic isnt important or useful. . but, you cant apply the laws of one world and one way of thinking to a realm that you dont even know if it operates under those rules. . untill you experience it, you cant really say for certain what its properties are, so when you come across as saying you strongly dont beleive in otherkin it seems a bit unmerrited. . voicing your opinion based off of what you know or intellectually beleive right now isnt a bad thing, but, being so strongly against something you havent checked out yourself personally, psychically. . just. . doesnt put out the best image. . and, is sort of counter productive. . you could be spending this time trying to open your 3d eye instead of telling me I am wrong!

I know it isnt easy. . I dont know how it is for everyone else, but, the first time I honestly tried to use my sight it was their. . I just, ddint beleive in it at first. . but, after years of accurate predictions and the such, I trust myself a bit more in my abilities. .now, that doesnt mean that I dont get things wrong. . but, I usually try things several times to make sure that it is right and accurate. . and even so, sometimes predictions alter, but, that is becuase the future is not set but a tapestry of possibilities, and when I read I dont see the "future" but the dominant thread that the present should manifest into if things dont change, which they can. .

now, I have done research on otherkins psychically. . checked out peoples energy(otherkin's energy signatures feel different, mostly awakened ones). . astral projected to different places. . seen other creatures. . hell, I have even seen astral beings in my room that definitly were not human or an earth like creature. . so, I beleive that other beings exist. . . . I remember past lives (remembering being tortured to death is something you cant make up. . the feelings, I *know* that was real, their is no WAY O.O I could have made that up). . now, since I know their are creatures out their other than humans, I know I have reincarnated, so, why not the possibility of being something other than human in a past life?. . now, this is by no means the extent of the research I have done, but, I wont get into too much detail as it would get rather boring. .but, as you can see, I have done some psychic research, and that is why I make my claim that otherkin are real. . I am no omnitant god but atleast try to be accurate. .lol

so for anyone reading this *I am not telling you what to beleive, but asking you to genuinly psychically try to find out for yourself*

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:21 pm


psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol


There's plenty to show a condescending tone. If you didn't intend it as such I'd suggest next time you revise how you express yourself.

And off of what I've posted shows little. I haven't had time to try the few basic things like even creating psyballs. College is just wrapping up for the semester and will actually leave me with time for something other than papers, work, and class.

I typed it up like that to get the point across that you are not actually trying to see or know anything really. . just trying to intellectually say that otherkin are wrong without even trying to know for certain if it is true. .

and, I am not asking you to trust me and what I have found to be true. . but, to try to find out yourself what you honestly find to be true(not just citing off logic). . and, I know time constraints stink . I am a full time college student who has to commute for 2 hours each way to even get to my college, and then I have work after school as well. . but, when you do get the time, maybe try to look into clairvoyance and the such. .maybe astral projection would also help you see that the universe is quite a different place then what we see here with these limited physical eyes. .
but, good luck with that.. ^^ maybe come back and tell us what you find out when you get your senses open. .


Logic is the way through which we can know. I find the general idea of psy far more logical than a lot of people do and thus I pursue it. Hell, you should have seen how I talked about psyvamps before it was explained it to me in a much more logical fashion.


I am not saying that logic isnt important or useful. . but, you cant apply the laws of one world and one way of thinking to a realm that you dont even know if it operates under those rules. . untill you experience it, you cant really say for certain what its properties are, so when you come across as saying you strongly dont beleive in otherkin it seems a bit unmerrited. . voicing your opinion based off of what you know or intellectually beleive right now isnt a bad thing, but, being so strongly against something you havent checked out yourself personally, psychically. . just. . doesnt put out the best image. . and, is sort of counter productive. . you could be spending this time trying to open your 3d eye instead of telling me I am wrong!

I know it isnt easy. . I dont know how it is for everyone else, but, the first time I honestly tried to use my sight it was their. . I just, ddint beleive in it at first. . but, after years of accurate predictions and the such, I trust myself a bit more in my abilities. .now, that doesnt mean that I dont get things wrong. . but, I usually try things several times to make sure that it is right and accurate. . and even so, sometimes predictions alter, but, that is becuase the future is not set but a tapestry of possibilities, and when I read I dont see the "future" but the dominant thread that the present should manifest into if things dont change, which they can. .

now, I have done research on otherkins psychically. . checked out peoples energy(otherkin's energy signatures feel different, mostly awakened ones). . astral projected to different places. . seen other creatures. . hell, I have even seen astral beings in my room that definitly were not human or an earth like creature. . so, I beleive that other beings exist. . . . I remember past lives (remembering being tortured to death is something you cant make up. . the feelings, I *know* that was real, their is no WAY O.O I could have made that up). . now, since I know their are creatures out their other than humans, I know I have reincarnated, so, why not the possibility of being something other than human in a past life?. . now, this is by no means the extent of the research I have done, but, I wont get into too much detail as it would get rather boring. .but, as you can see, I have done some psychic research, and that is why I make my claim that otherkin are real. . I am no omnitant god but atleast try to be accurate. .lol

so for anyone reading this *I am not telling you what to beleive, but asking you to genuinly psychically try to find out for yourself*


Apparently I cut myself off when I typed that first sentence. I do that a lot due to switching thought trains for whatever reason.

*Logic is the way by which we know the workings of the universe.

It does apply to magick and such as far as I'm concerned. However the astral is, as far as I can figured based on second hand accounts, a completely separate dimension influenced strongly by the minds of people. The minds of people, particularly imaginations, are not logical things a great lot of the time and thus it is illogical to assume it would be logical.

As far as Otherkin, I'm not even going to touch the existence of mythical creatures in the astral. However, I still don't see how this is supposed to be evidence of the validity of Otherkin.

First off, assuming reincarnation is real, I highly doubt you'd have the soul of some form of animal. Why? It wouldn't likely know how to be human. It is more likely that Hindu or Buddhist beliefs are correct and that you just have an all purpose soul. You can be reincarnated as an animal if your Karma is bad enough, but it doesn't mean you have an animal soul.

Second, I will tell you know that your mind is more capable of unwittingly influencing your reality than you probably give it credit for.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:04 am


The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis

that was not intended to be condesending, and if you find it so, you are reading too far into it. . I am just stating that from what you have posted you dont actually even try to find out psychically about this stuff, but just off of what you intellectually think. . whcih isnt the best method, considering we are talking about things that at the moment can only be psychically validated anyways. . lol


There's plenty to show a condescending tone. If you didn't intend it as such I'd suggest next time you revise how you express yourself.

And off of what I've posted shows little. I haven't had time to try the few basic things like even creating psyballs. College is just wrapping up for the semester and will actually leave me with time for something other than papers, work, and class.

I typed it up like that to get the point across that you are not actually trying to see or know anything really. . just trying to intellectually say that otherkin are wrong without even trying to know for certain if it is true. .

and, I am not asking you to trust me and what I have found to be true. . but, to try to find out yourself what you honestly find to be true(not just citing off logic). . and, I know time constraints stink . I am a full time college student who has to commute for 2 hours each way to even get to my college, and then I have work after school as well. . but, when you do get the time, maybe try to look into clairvoyance and the such. .maybe astral projection would also help you see that the universe is quite a different place then what we see here with these limited physical eyes. .
but, good luck with that.. ^^ maybe come back and tell us what you find out when you get your senses open. .


Logic is the way through which we can know. I find the general idea of psy far more logical than a lot of people do and thus I pursue it. Hell, you should have seen how I talked about psyvamps before it was explained it to me in a much more logical fashion.


I am not saying that logic isnt important or useful. . but, you cant apply the laws of one world and one way of thinking to a realm that you dont even know if it operates under those rules. . untill you experience it, you cant really say for certain what its properties are, so when you come across as saying you strongly dont beleive in otherkin it seems a bit unmerrited. . voicing your opinion based off of what you know or intellectually beleive right now isnt a bad thing, but, being so strongly against something you havent checked out yourself personally, psychically. . just. . doesnt put out the best image. . and, is sort of counter productive. . you could be spending this time trying to open your 3d eye instead of telling me I am wrong!

I know it isnt easy. . I dont know how it is for everyone else, but, the first time I honestly tried to use my sight it was their. . I just, ddint beleive in it at first. . but, after years of accurate predictions and the such, I trust myself a bit more in my abilities. .now, that doesnt mean that I dont get things wrong. . but, I usually try things several times to make sure that it is right and accurate. . and even so, sometimes predictions alter, but, that is becuase the future is not set but a tapestry of possibilities, and when I read I dont see the "future" but the dominant thread that the present should manifest into if things dont change, which they can. .

now, I have done research on otherkins psychically. . checked out peoples energy(otherkin's energy signatures feel different, mostly awakened ones). . astral projected to different places. . seen other creatures. . hell, I have even seen astral beings in my room that definitly were not human or an earth like creature. . so, I beleive that other beings exist. . . . I remember past lives (remembering being tortured to death is something you cant make up. . the feelings, I *know* that was real, their is no WAY O.O I could have made that up). . now, since I know their are creatures out their other than humans, I know I have reincarnated, so, why not the possibility of being something other than human in a past life?. . now, this is by no means the extent of the research I have done, but, I wont get into too much detail as it would get rather boring. .but, as you can see, I have done some psychic research, and that is why I make my claim that otherkin are real. . I am no omnitant god but atleast try to be accurate. .lol

so for anyone reading this *I am not telling you what to beleive, but asking you to genuinly psychically try to find out for yourself*


Apparently I cut myself off when I typed that first sentence. I do that a lot due to switching thought trains for whatever reason.

*Logic is the way by which we know the workings of the universe.

It does apply to magick and such as far as I'm concerned. However the astral is, as far as I can figured based on second hand accounts, a completely separate dimension influenced strongly by the minds of people. The minds of people, particularly imaginations, are not logical things a great lot of the time and thus it is illogical to assume it would be logical.

As far as Otherkin, I'm not even going to touch the existence of mythical creatures in the astral. However, I still don't see how this is supposed to be evidence of the validity of Otherkin.

First off, assuming reincarnation is real, I highly doubt you'd have the soul of some form of animal. Why? It wouldn't likely know how to be human. It is more likely that Hindu or Buddhist beliefs are correct and that you just have an all purpose soul. You can be reincarnated as an animal if your Karma is bad enough, but it doesn't mean you have an animal soul.

Second, I will tell you know that your mind is more capable of unwittingly influencing your reality than you probably give it credit for.


the astral is heavly afected by the mind, the will, energy. . the astral is an energetic level of existance. . in magickal worlds, the physical and astral are more meshed into one and as such energy has much more of a sway and affect on the physical . . I have astral projected to worlds were I could see people, and they could see me, becuase, to them that was their world. . here, their is a veil of energy that is keeping the astral and physical more separate, although even here still energetic things can have an effect on the physical, it is just ASSLOADS harder to accoomplish. .

you dont understand what I am saying becuase you havent exerpeinced it. . if you knew how to read energy you would notice that some people dont feel like the average person. . their are, well, traits in the energy of beings of certain races. . energy signatures. . they arent completely the same since well, people are individuals. . but if you know how to feel energy then you would notice this. . also, even with just a simple energetic ability of feeling the strength of energy, you can often find that otherkin feel energetically stronger than others, even if they havent done a single thing to hone their energetic ability at all. . lol

and yes, logic does apply to magic.. their is structure. . in the astral, strongest energy wins. . lol. . actually, try this one on for size. . if everyone on the entire planet at the same time all honestly stopped beleiving in physics and beleived that magic was real and possible what do you think would happen?. . this world is affected by thoughts as well. . it is people who beleive in physics and all that stuff that actually help to upkeep the veil that separates the astral from the physical. . so you say the mind can affect a lot of things, yah, that is true. . if you really want to test this out, honestly truthfully, with *every* fiber of your being beleive you can do something like move an object or whatnot, and tell me what happens. .

and, about bodies. . a soul can go into other forms. . for instance, lets say I was an animal for most of my existance, that is waht my soul mostly learned about. . now, I can go into a human body, but, I am going to be a kinda dumb not as smart human. . it is possible, can happen. .a nd, after being human for a while the soul will know how to handle that kind of body. . going from a human to a less intelligent animal, they wouldnt have too much of a problem, cept they may be slower than the other animals, since they arent used to that type of strength and skill with physical things. .the body is the limits in which we can express what we have. . so, yes, you can be an animal, a tree. . whatever. .

ivorymystic
Crew


The Resurrection

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:22 am


psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis
The Resurrection
psychelapis

I typed it up like that to get the point across that you are not actually trying to see or know anything really. . just trying to intellectually say that otherkin are wrong without even trying to know for certain if it is true. .

and, I am not asking you to trust me and what I have found to be true. . but, to try to find out yourself what you honestly find to be true(not just citing off logic). . and, I know time constraints stink . I am a full time college student who has to commute for 2 hours each way to even get to my college, and then I have work after school as well. . but, when you do get the time, maybe try to look into clairvoyance and the such. .maybe astral projection would also help you see that the universe is quite a different place then what we see here with these limited physical eyes. .
but, good luck with that.. ^^ maybe come back and tell us what you find out when you get your senses open. .


Logic is the way through which we can know. I find the general idea of psy far more logical than a lot of people do and thus I pursue it. Hell, you should have seen how I talked about psyvamps before it was explained it to me in a much more logical fashion.


I am not saying that logic isnt important or useful. . but, you cant apply the laws of one world and one way of thinking to a realm that you dont even know if it operates under those rules. . untill you experience it, you cant really say for certain what its properties are, so when you come across as saying you strongly dont beleive in otherkin it seems a bit unmerrited. . voicing your opinion based off of what you know or intellectually beleive right now isnt a bad thing, but, being so strongly against something you havent checked out yourself personally, psychically. . just. . doesnt put out the best image. . and, is sort of counter productive. . you could be spending this time trying to open your 3d eye instead of telling me I am wrong!

I know it isnt easy. . I dont know how it is for everyone else, but, the first time I honestly tried to use my sight it was their. . I just, ddint beleive in it at first. . but, after years of accurate predictions and the such, I trust myself a bit more in my abilities. .now, that doesnt mean that I dont get things wrong. . but, I usually try things several times to make sure that it is right and accurate. . and even so, sometimes predictions alter, but, that is becuase the future is not set but a tapestry of possibilities, and when I read I dont see the "future" but the dominant thread that the present should manifest into if things dont change, which they can. .

now, I have done research on otherkins psychically. . checked out peoples energy(otherkin's energy signatures feel different, mostly awakened ones). . astral projected to different places. . seen other creatures. . hell, I have even seen astral beings in my room that definitly were not human or an earth like creature. . so, I beleive that other beings exist. . . . I remember past lives (remembering being tortured to death is something you cant make up. . the feelings, I *know* that was real, their is no WAY O.O I could have made that up). . now, since I know their are creatures out their other than humans, I know I have reincarnated, so, why not the possibility of being something other than human in a past life?. . now, this is by no means the extent of the research I have done, but, I wont get into too much detail as it would get rather boring. .but, as you can see, I have done some psychic research, and that is why I make my claim that otherkin are real. . I am no omnitant god but atleast try to be accurate. .lol

so for anyone reading this *I am not telling you what to beleive, but asking you to genuinly psychically try to find out for yourself*


Apparently I cut myself off when I typed that first sentence. I do that a lot due to switching thought trains for whatever reason.

*Logic is the way by which we know the workings of the universe.

It does apply to magick and such as far as I'm concerned. However the astral is, as far as I can figured based on second hand accounts, a completely separate dimension influenced strongly by the minds of people. The minds of people, particularly imaginations, are not logical things a great lot of the time and thus it is illogical to assume it would be logical.

As far as Otherkin, I'm not even going to touch the existence of mythical creatures in the astral. However, I still don't see how this is supposed to be evidence of the validity of Otherkin.

First off, assuming reincarnation is real, I highly doubt you'd have the soul of some form of animal. Why? It wouldn't likely know how to be human. It is more likely that Hindu or Buddhist beliefs are correct and that you just have an all purpose soul. You can be reincarnated as an animal if your Karma is bad enough, but it doesn't mean you have an animal soul.

Second, I will tell you know that your mind is more capable of unwittingly influencing your reality than you probably give it credit for.


the astral is heavly afected by the mind, the will, energy. . the astral is an energetic level of existance. . in magickal worlds, the physical and astral are more meshed into one and as such energy has much more of a sway and affect on the physical . . I have astral projected to worlds were I could see people, and they could see me, becuase, to them that was their world. . here, their is a veil of energy that is keeping the astral and physical more separate, although even here still energetic things can have an effect on the physical, it is just ASSLOADS harder to accoomplish. .

you dont understand what I am saying becuase you havent exerpeinced it. . if you knew how to read energy you would notice that some people dont feel like the average person. . their are, well, traits in the energy of beings of certain races. . energy signatures. . they arent completely the same since well, people are individuals. . but if you know how to feel energy then you would notice this. . also, even with just a simple energetic ability of feeling the strength of energy, you can often find that otherkin feel energetically stronger than others, even if they havent done a single thing to hone their energetic ability at all. . lol

and yes, logic does apply to magic.. their is structure. . in the astral, strongest energy wins. . lol. . actually, try this one on for size. . if everyone on the entire planet at the same time all honestly stopped beleiving in physics and beleived that magic was real and possible what do you think would happen?. . this world is affected by thoughts as well. . it is people who beleive in physics and all that stuff that actually help to upkeep the veil that separates the astral from the physical. . so you say the mind can affect a lot of things, yah, that is true. . if you really want to test this out, honestly truthfully, with *every* fiber of your being beleive you can do something like move an object or whatnot, and tell me what happens. .

and, about bodies. . a soul can go into other forms. . for instance, lets say I was an animal for most of my existance, that is waht my soul mostly learned about. . now, I can go into a human body, but, I am going to be a kinda dumb not as smart human. . it is possible, can happen. .a nd, after being human for a while the soul will know how to handle that kind of body. . going from a human to a less intelligent animal, they wouldnt have too much of a problem, cept they may be slower than the other animals, since they arent used to that type of strength and skill with physical things. .the body is the limits in which we can express what we have. . so, yes, you can be an animal, a tree. . whatever. .


Yes, I find mind affecting reality in the grand scheme of things to be a possibility. The difference I mean though is from what I've been told anything anyone ever believed in exists in the astral whereas the physical is defined by the will of the majority.

That Otherkin would naturally be stronger in terms of energy makes no sense. Unless of course you're suggesting humans are essentially the weakest source of energy anywhere in existence... Furthermore your last paragraph sounds to me as though you're saying we do have an all purpose soul that just needs to get acquainted with different forms. This would defy any reasoning behind suggesting Otherkin automatically have more energy.

I do find fault with the believing with every fiber of being part... There was a time where I was essentially dominated by hate and rage. At times when they exploded it pretty much resulted with me looking as though I had just slammed my fists on the ground, though my body was mostly locked up. At that point, with every fiber of my being, I'd be willing death upon whomever was the object of my hate. None of them even had bad things happen to them, let alone die.
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