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 Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:25 pm
Fiona Pond Eltanin Sadachbia I kinda wonder where you think she is headed with that statement Anon... I mean... I am pretty sure I know exactly what law she is referring to in the Old Law, but I wonder what you think she is implying... It doesn't really have anything to do with sexual orientation, but I think she is just pointing out that people seem to pick and choose from the Law what they will follow and what they won't.You can't say you are obeying the Law if you only choose to follow "The Ten Commandments" but yet you refuse to acknowledge the other part s of the same Code of Laws... I think we are very blessed to live in the New Covenant in which the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, ESPECIALLY since there is so much confusion between so many factions of Christians as to what was meant by some of the old Laws. Now, the Law that we live by is that of Love, and because of that, we need only focus all of our might on caring and protecting one another, and if we do that, we will be doing what is right. Those who truly follow the Law of Love will automatically observe the Spirit in which the Old Law was bestowed. ding ding ding. *note boldfaced* Jesus pretty clearly stated that the greatest laws were: 1. love the lord with all your heart and soul and mind 2. love your neighbor as yourself. demonizing the gay is a pretty poor excuse for loving one's neighbor as oneself. I believe you should ask God himself if you have a relationship with him what is right. Yes, it says love you neighbor as yourself, not once did I say that I hated homosexuals. I love people, I hate the sin. And that is exactly what God commands. So, when I take the sword up against this situation I am combatting the sin. Yes, I will love a homosexual, but if they do not see the light and continue on in their ways even after trying to steer them correctly then oh well, damnation upon them. The blood is no longer on my hands. All of that is scripture. You warn someone twice, then you take it unto the officials of the church. If they still refuse to listen then they fall into God's hands which is dangerous because that is when judgement begins. You may assume my knowledge is mininal, but I have my own personal relationship with God, and I refuse to move from anything I have said. I despise the sin of homosexuality, murder, thievery etc. I despise sin period. One of you may say "Well do you despise yourself because we're born into sin" to that I must say stop speaking idiocy. There is a big line between striving to be Christ-like and continuing on in sin. For those that don't know, Christian means Christ-like. Christ, if you wish to take it there, was not a homosexual, nor did he sin, in which homosexuality is. So, in conclusion, if you call yourself a Christian you must be Christ-like. I speak this even to myself. Stop mistaking my boldness for arrogance and anger against homosexuals because my target is not the person. Cease with reading with your natural eyes and use your spiritual. Now if you wish to cease with 'bashing', for lack of a better term, and ask for how I got to my conclusion then proceed. But jumping to conclusions in how I see things is not tolerated nor appreciated. I am not throwing stones at anyone because we have all sinned and come short of the Glory of God, I am merely speaking from experience and what I know for a fact. If you refuse to receive it then oh well, I pray God opens your eyes... Yet again... Do not misttake boldness for arrogance or cockiness, because I am neither.
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:01 am
Anon Aegis I believe you should ask God himself if you have a relationship with him what is right. Yes of course. Quote: Yes, it says love you neighbor as yourself, not once did I say that I hated homosexuals. I love people, I hate the sin. And that is exactly what God commands. So, when I take the sword up against this situation I am combatting the sin. People are defined by what they do. The problem I find with this argument is that it is often used to justify attrocities for the greater good. Extreme example obviously but with this argument coupled with choice verses one could inadvertantly justify the use of genocide to combat sin. Not saying that you are trying to say that by any means but just showing you the extreme. In the case of "combating homosexuality" what is being justified as a way of "hating the sin" is unjustly denying a secular right to state marriage. I mean I can understand if a religious institution want to deny giving a religious marriage to such individuals since how a Church runs things is pretty much their business but a line is crossed when they tell the ruling government to make a prohibition to thier religious community the law of the land. I know I wouldn't want to be forced to give offerings to Ares because the State passed a law saying I had to do so. Quote: Yes, I will love a homosexual, but if they do not see the light and continue on in their ways even after trying to steer them correctly then oh well, damnation upon them. The blood is no longer on my hands. All of that is scripture. You warn someone twice, then you take it unto the officials of the church. If they still refuse to listen then they fall into God's hands which is dangerous because that is when judgement begins. I agree with kicking the dust off your feet when rejected. This is personal remark here so you may address it if you want, but I never understood being afraid of God if he is just and merciful. I mean if he's just and merciful then whatever he judgement he passes is going to be just and merciful so... if one values justice then what is there to be afraid of? Quote: You may assume my knowledge is mininal, but I have my own personal relationship with God, and I refuse to move from anything I have said. I have a relationship with God too and that's very commendable. There's many Christians that don't know about the Light. But do realize that even with divine revelation the human mind is a 5 pound bag compared to the 1,000,000,000,000,000 of grain that is there and sometimes this bag can have holes in it. If I recall there is a passage in Proverbs about keeping wise council. Quote: I despise the sin of homosexuality, murder, thievery etc. I despise sin period. One of you may say "Well do you despise yourself because we're born into sin" to that I must say stop speaking idiocy. While I don't believe homosexuality to be a sin I agree with you on this. Do be sure to keep mercy along with your eyes of justice though. Justice without mercy is vengance. Quote: There is a big line between striving to be Christ-like and continuing on in sin. For those that don't know, Christian means Christ-like. Christ, if you wish to take it there, was not a homosexual, nor did he sin, in which homosexuality is. Faulty argument. Christ didn't use computers or drive cars so therefore those things are sins right? Emulating Christ is very important but do not be blind to reason. To be blind to Logos(Reason) is to be blind to the Logos(Christ). Quote: So, in conclusion, if you call yourself a Christian you must be Christ-like. I speak this even to myself. Stop mistaking my boldness for arrogance and anger against homosexuals because my target is not the person. Boldness is good and at times necessary. Boldness is an act of faith. It is an awesome starting point but there does have to be something more than just a foundation, else you are going to get rained upon very quickly. Quote: Cease with reading with your natural eyes and use your spiritual. I thought we were using our spiritual eyes. I'm bold in saying that I believe that I have been. Quote: Now if you wish to cease with 'bashing', for lack of a better term, and ask for how I got to my conclusion then proceed. But jumping to conclusions in how I see things is not tolerated nor appreciated. I am not throwing stones at anyone because we have all sinned and come short of the Glory of God, I am merely speaking from experience and what I know for a fact. If you refuse to receive it then oh well, I pray God opens your eyes... You do realize that you just asked not to be condecened to and then you just condecened her? While I would be interested in seeing how you got to your conclusion there is no need to talk down to us. How do you know we aren't using our spiritual eyes? Because we don't agree with you? Why not lay it out on the table and we can test it. If it has merit and is of God then of course it should stand. Quote: Yet again... Do not misttake boldness for arrogance or cockiness, because I am neither. No one is accusing you of that from what I can see. What is being accused is picking and choosing from the Old Testament Laws. You hold to the prohibition against homosexuality and then claim it's because all of the laws have to be followed but yet there are many laws that are ignored completely such as not mixing of two different fabrics, no mixing of meat and cheese, not rotating crops, not shaving one's beard, ect... There are a total of 613 Laws of Moses yet only 1 is being focused on.
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:51 am
Anon Aegis I believe you should ask God himself if you have a relationship with him what is right. I do ask God... Yet, when I am asking God about things that do not apply to my relationship with Him, He always directs me to the verse... Matthew 7:1-6 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. The last verse tends to get me, even now... When I am sure that I am right, it isn't always appropriate to try and impart my knowledge to those not ready to understand it... God is perfectly capable of convicting the hearts of those who need conviction... ...And just like in life, even spiritually speaking, some things that are good for some people are not good for everyone... Anon Aegis Yes, it says love you neighbor as yourself, not once did I say that I hated homosexuals. I love people, I hate the sin. And that is exactly what God commands. So, when I take the sword up against this situation I am combatting the sin. Could you please post Scriptural reference to where we are instructed to take up the sword against the sins of other individuals? I do believe our fight against sin rest upon us to combat our own issues, and to help those who ask for support... Luke 17:3-4 3 So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.” Matthew 18:15-17 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Both of the above verses apply to situations between 2 Christians and are meant to be resolved on a private or semi-private level... These verses are no admonishing Christians to go at and seek sinners to advise them of their failings. allot of times these verses are parted out to be applied to the situation of confronting those people, "Living in sin". Anon Aegis Yes, I will love a homosexual, but if they do not see the light and continue on in their ways even after trying to steer them correctly then oh well, damnation upon them. The blood is no longer on my hands. All of that is scripture. You warn someone twice, then you take it unto the officials of the church. If they still refuse to listen then they fall into God's hands which is dangerous because that is when judgement begins. I would like to ask you to take time and really look at this last paragraph... Now I know that writing things out can be almost impossible when it comes to applying context to statement... It is a unique challenge to convey the attitude and feeling of the message you are trying to convey.... But even if this statement was said in the most compassionate way by Mother Theresa, it is still a pretty harshly judgmental statement... Anon Aegis Yes, I will love a homosexual, but if they do not see the light and continue on in their ways even after trying to steer them correctly then oh well, damnation upon them. Seriously!?...Oh Well!?... You just sentenced millions of people's souls to burn in fiery torment for the rest of eternity because they didn't listen to YOUR warnings!? Prideful much? Which leads to the next statement... Anon Aegis The blood is no longer on my hands. The blood was never on your hands to begin with... Again, this comes off as a prideful statement... Anon Aegis All of that is scripture. You warn someone twice, then you take it unto the officials of the church. If they still refuse to listen then they fall into God's hands which is dangerous because that is when judgement begins. The scripture you reference for this is what I quoted above. I feel that it is very clear that those verses refer to issues between two individuals of the Church. They are not meant as a green-light to single out entire demographics within the realm of Christianity and oust them. ...And it is not up to anyone to decide when judgment begins... That is up to God... The Bible speaks of judgment, not so that we can use it as a warning to others, but so that we are aware of the possible implications of it over our own life. Anon Aegis You may assume my knowledge is mininal,... I don't assume anything about your knowledge, but I do question your understanding... I am just being honest with this statement though, I am not trying to be harsh... There was a point in my life where I knew the Bible but I didn't have an ounce of understanding... I thought allot of my actions were demonstrations of love, but I learned that those actions were based more in pride... Anon Aegis ...but I have my own personal relationship with God, and I refuse to move from anything I have said. I despise the sin of homosexuality, murder, thievery etc. I despise sin period... I do not question your relationship with God, and it is good to know where you stand and what you believe... I commend you for that. Anon Aegis One of you may say "Well do you despise yourself because we're born into sin" to that I must say stop speaking idiocy. There is a big line between striving to be Christ-like and continuing on in sin. For those that don't know, Christian means Christ-like... I can only assume you have encountered that argument before, but I think everyone here is familiar with our selfish natures, and the struggle that it takes to overcome them... Anon Aegis Christ, if you wish to take it there, was not a homosexual, nor did he sin, in which homosexuality is. I stand behind rmcdra's counter to this statement. I couldn't have put it any better... Anon Aegis So, in conclusion, if you call yourself a Christian you must be Christ-like. I speak this even to myself. Stop mistaking my boldness for arrogance and anger against homosexuals because my target is not the person. Boldness sometimes equates with those things we would rather not be... I feel that some of your statements lack love, and thus you are carrying a burden that was not given to you by God to shoulder... I am not questioning your relationship as a Christian... We all take up burdens that God did not mean for us to carry. I am just a little concerned... Anon Aegis Cease with reading with your natural eyes and use your spiritual. Now if you wish to cease with 'bashing', for lack of a better term, and ask for how I got to my conclusion then proceed. But jumping to conclusions in how I see things is not tolerated nor appreciated. I am not throwing stones at anyone because we have all sinned and come short of the Glory of God, I am merely speaking from experience and what I know for a fact. If you refuse to receive it then oh well, I pray God opens your eyes... Yet again... Do not misttake boldness for arrogance or cockiness, because I am neither. Again, I feel that this last statement has more than a little flavor of pride... You continue to tell us not to assume things about you from your posts, and you accuse of us of judging you by what you have written, but throughout all of your posts you assume and judge those of this thread by what they have written, but you do so behind a wall of misunderstood and out-of context Scripture... I don't feel you have been bashed and I do not feel you have been dealt with in any way beyond what you have dealt with others here... I certainly respect your ideals, because at one point I thought similar to you.
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:41 pm
I think groups like the Westboro Baptist Church--even my other Christian friends--take the Bible out of context with regards to homosexuality. The part of the Bible that deals with homosexuals is in the Old Testament, before Jesus came around. This isn't really related, but it's important to note that since we are Christians, we should study more closely what was done and said by Jesus
When He came, He preached against a lot of the older rules that were established by religious leaders--it doesn't say specifically, but that likely included the anti-gay thoughts. I honestly think the whole anti-gay thing came from a homophobic religious leader or something, rather than God. Sexuality is not a choice, so why would create you as an "abomination" in His eyes?
The issue with homosexuality isn't because of who's having sex with who, it's how. Gays aren't allowed to marry in the vast majority of the world, so any time they engage in sex, it's outside the context of marriage. In my opinion, that's the sin of homosexuality, though this is also a big thing with heterosexuals too.
I think as long as you believe in God, you'll get into Heaven, regardless of sexuality. I have a gay Christian friend, and if he and I were to both die right now, I think both of us would get in.
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:04 am
Snake Oil Salesman I think groups like the Westboro Baptist Church--even my other Christian friends--take the Bible out of context with regards to homosexuality. The part of the Bible that deals with homosexuals is in the Old Testament, before Jesus came around. This isn't really related, but it's important to note that since we are Christians, we should study more closely what was done and said by Jesus When He came, He preached against a lot of the older rules that were established by religious leaders--it doesn't say specifically, but that likely included the anti-gay thoughts. I honestly think the whole anti-gay thing came from a homophobic religious leader or something, rather than God. Sexuality is not a choice, so why would create you as an "abomination" in His eyes? The issue with homosexuality isn't because of who's having sex with who, it's how. Gays aren't allowed to marry in the vast majority of the world, so any time they engage in sex, it's outside the context of marriage. In my opinion, that's the sin of homosexuality, though this is also a big thing with heterosexuals too. I think as long as you believe in God, you'll get into Heaven, regardless of sexuality. I have a gay Christian friend, and if he and I were to both die right now, I think both of us would get in. oh goodness, i love how you worded that
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:00 am
Shanna66 Snake Oil Salesman I think groups like the Westboro Baptist Church--even my other Christian friends--take the Bible out of context with regards to homosexuality. The part of the Bible that deals with homosexuals is in the Old Testament, before Jesus came around. This isn't really related, but it's important to note that since we are Christians, we should study more closely what was done and said by Jesus When He came, He preached against a lot of the older rules that were established by religious leaders--it doesn't say specifically, but that likely included the anti-gay thoughts. I honestly think the whole anti-gay thing came from a homophobic religious leader or something, rather than God. Sexuality is not a choice, so why would create you as an "abomination" in His eyes? The issue with homosexuality isn't because of who's having sex with who, it's how. Gays aren't allowed to marry in the vast majority of the world, so any time they engage in sex, it's outside the context of marriage. In my opinion, that's the sin of homosexuality, though this is also a big thing with heterosexuals too. I think as long as you believe in God, you'll get into Heaven, regardless of sexuality. I have a gay Christian friend, and if he and I were to both die right now, I think both of us would get in. oh goodness, i love how you worded that Thanks?
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:01 am
http://www.prnewschannel.com/2011/11/29/discovery-apostle-paul-accepted-christian-homosexuals/#.TwIi0T9tN2E.facebook
This is awesome... Rmcdra shared this on Facebook... I thought it might be relevant.
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:37 am
I want to find a WBC rally near my house and go protest it.
dramallama
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:41 pm
Snake Oil Salesman I want to find a WBC rally near my house and go protest it. dramallama Sorry for the break in discussion... I am glad I reread the above posts.... for a moment, I thought you wanted to protest against White blood Cells. I really need to get out of my school books.
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:46 pm
Homo/Bisexuals do not bother me. I can talk about all aspects of that stuff... Though I personally would never actually do such things.
Hm, Transsexuals... I do not like ever talking about them because I get a little... harsh. Mutilation is a common word I associate with them... that is all.
Anyways, LGBT being a sin... well, you will know on Judgement Day if it is or not.
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:25 pm
Qyp Homo/Bisexuals do not bother me. I can talk about all aspects of that stuff... Though I personally would never actually do such things. Hm, Transsexuals... I do not like ever talking about them because I get a little... harsh. Mutilation is a common word I associate with them... that is all. Anyways, LGBT being a sin... well, you will know on Judgement Day if it is or not. Not all transsexuals go through sex change operations. And even if they do, why would sex change be self-mutilation. You might want to check the info dump section of this guild. There is a pretty strong case for why homosexuality is not a sin, and here's an offsite link about Transsexual Christians..
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:39 pm
rmcdra Qyp Homo/Bisexuals do not bother me. I can talk about all aspects of that stuff... Though I personally would never actually do such things. Hm, Transsexuals... I do not like ever talking about them because I get a little... harsh. Mutilation is a common word I associate with them... that is all. Anyways, LGBT being a sin... well, you will know on Judgement Day if it is or not. Not all transsexuals go through sex change operations. And even if they do, why would sex change be self-mutilation. You might want to check the info dump section of this guild. There is a pretty strong case for why homosexuality is not a sin, and here's an offsite link about Transsexual Christians.. Hmmm... I forgot about all that... especially the testicle crushing. Also, I find women trans into men, that still have their female sexual organs and decide to get pregnant and claim to be pregnant men... a little stupid. Male on paper... that is all they are. Though I do find that long hair = shame thing contradictory to Samson. Though, that was a special covenant.
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:41 am
Qyp Also, I find women trans into men, that still have their female sexual organs and decide to get pregnant and claim to be pregnant men... a little stupid. Male on paper... that is all they are. I guess then men without a p***s are just men on paper or women without a uterus are just women on paper confused Gender, from what I understand, is part biological, part psychological, and part social. One's gender and one's sex are not necessarily the same thing. Quote: Though I do find that long hair = shame thing contradictory to Samson. Though, that was a special covenant. Samson was a Nazirite. I personally don't believe long hair is shameful. Impractical in certain situations like combat or dealing with machinery, but not shameful. Again though, that's just me.
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:51 am
rmcdra Qyp Also, I find women trans into men, that still have their female sexual organs and decide to get pregnant and claim to be pregnant men... a little stupid. Male on paper... that is all they are. I guess then men without a p***s are just men on paper or women without a uterus are just women on paper confused Gender, from what I understand, is part biological, part psychological, and part social. One's gender and one's sex are not necessarily the same thing. Quote: Though I do find that long hair = shame thing contradictory to Samson. Though, that was a special covenant. Samson was a Nazirite. I personally don't believe long hair is shameful. Impractical in certain situations like combat or dealing with machinery, but not shameful. Again though, that's just me. Yeah, I know what he was... I just find that God making special covenants for the jewish people, that exclude them from certain laws... just shows that maybe they were just "guidelines" until Jesus came along, as it were. Two pastors have told me that such people in the bible were early symbolism of what Jesus (and other notable NT figures) would be, such as Ruth, Isaac, Abraham and the Sheep, uh... Daniel in some ways, Samuel being the forebear of John the Baptist (In the sense, they both anointed kings in one way or another) Elijah, and I forgot some... but... the Old Testament was probably more the introduction of Jesus, Even though it's dubbed The Book of Law, I believe.
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:57 am
Qyp rmcdra Qyp Also, I find women trans into men, that still have their female sexual organs and decide to get pregnant and claim to be pregnant men... a little stupid. Male on paper... that is all they are. I guess then men without a p***s are just men on paper or women without a uterus are just women on paper confused Gender, from what I understand, is part biological, part psychological, and part social. One's gender and one's sex are not necessarily the same thing. Quote: Though I do find that long hair = shame thing contradictory to Samson. Though, that was a special covenant. Samson was a Nazirite. I personally don't believe long hair is shameful. Impractical in certain situations like combat or dealing with machinery, but not shameful. Again though, that's just me. Yeah, I know what he was... I just find that God making special covenants for the jewish people, that exclude them from certain laws... just shows that maybe they were just "guidelines" until Jesus came along, as it were. Two pastors have told me that such people in the bible were early symbolism of what Jesus (and other notable NT figures) would be, such as Ruth, Isaac, Abraham and the Sheep, uh... Daniel in some ways, Samuel being the forebear of John the Baptist (In the sense, they both anointed kings in one way or another) Elijah, and I forgot some... but... the Old Testament was probably more the introduction of Jesus, Even though it's dubbed The Book of Law, I believe. Nazirite oath is more strict. It actually adds more to the Laws that already expected to be observed. That's an interesting concept. I hope you start a new thread on this topic.
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