Social Event- Debate
Rain Yupa
Not long after the completion of the Martial Duels, Doji Kita would lead the six people competing in the Debates into a private room inside one of the Daidoji buildings. Seven places would be set, and Kita's personal attendants would be waiting for everyone to take a seat before going to prepare tea.
"Welcome, samurai, to tea. I will be judging the exchanges, but otherwise, I will remain uninvolved after presenting the topic for all of you to address. As you have no doubt noticed, there are specific places set for each of you, determined in a set order by the drawing of names prior to our gathering. I will state the rules now."
Eyeing each of you in turn, Doji Kita would keep a neutral expression, judging you on your demeanor already, it would seem. "Everyone will take turns debating an issue, starting to my left, with Kan. It will continue onward in a circle, ending with Doji Koan and skipping back to Kan again. You may not interrupt another competitor as they make their case, but feel free to refute and argue against their claims come your turn. Once someone is unable to make a valid argument, they will be asked to leave, and a new topic will start. Is that understood?"
In mechanical rules, the debate's Awareness/Courtier TN is 5, to start. Once it has come full circle, the TN is boosted to 10, and increases by 5 every circle. You can call raises on your turn to increase your TN to argue against someone's point. If you succeed, it increases their next TN by the same amount you increased yours. The limit of these raises is limited by your Void, AND the circle round. That is to say, if its on the first time around, you can only raise once, even if your Void is higher. If its on the third time around, you can only raise twice if your Void is 2. Update: You can use the social skills Etiquette or Deceit as well, but the TNs of those rolls are increased by 5, since Courtier is the key skill. Beware of the honor loss of Deceit rolls if you're caught!
Once someone fails their roll, that's it for the topic, and that person is the weakest link, goodbye.
Around this time, Doji Kita's servants would return with a kettle of boiling water, and begin serving tea. "Ah, thank you." the Magistrate would say as she was served first, and then Doji Koan would follow shortly thereafter. "The first topic of debate is this: With the release of many spirits with the somewhat recent opening of Oblivion's Gate, the deceased spirits of many former Rokugani samurai have attempted to resettle into our lands, trying to continue old habits and pursue old grudges. Do these spirits have the same rights to exist as a normal, mortal citizen of Rokugan?" And with that, Kita would begin to drink from her tea cup.
Kan, the older gentleman of unremarkable distinction would be first up. The servants not having gotten to him quite yet, he would remain kneeling patiently, looking at the rest of the group. "As a member of the Order of the Four Temples, we've accepted initiates of all walks of life. I personally don't see any reason to exclude someone simply because they come from a walk of afterlife. As long as they don't mean any harm, what harm could come from giving them meaning?" {Courtier of 27}
Ide Jiro, the fair-haired charming Emissary from the Unicorn, would go next, after thanking the servant girl for pouring his tea; his smile would make her blush considerably. "It would seem to me that every Clan should be able to decide for themselves! I know for a fact that most unicorn would take any opportunity to bolster our numbers! If the spirits of the dead are willing to adapt to our customs and rules, let them come!" Letting out a proud, jovial laugh, he would take a sip of his tea. {Courtier of 18}
Soshi Maru, the scandalously-dressed shugenja from the Scorpion Clan, would be next. She was smiling in response to Jiro's answer, but how much attention she paid him was uncertain; her eyes were completely concealed by a densely-knit veil blocking her eyes from being seen. She would set her tea cup down, nodding to her hostess. "This is excellent tea, by the way. It's always a pleasure to see how much delicate care the Crane take in their tea." Bringing a fist to her mouth, she would clear her throat softly before speaking further. "I'm not in total disagreement. However, a lot of these spirits are long forgotten, and we don't know what kind of threats they possess. We really don't know where each of their loyalties lie, and what living relatives they might have that can verify their claims. If we were to accept them, I feel it would only be productive after arduous screening." {Courtier of 24}
Next up was Shinjo Gemmei, a woman who had little to say up until this point. She took a drink from her tea cup as she thought carefully before speaking, her eyes closed. "How would you go about screening them, Maru-san? Or, more to the fact, what would you do with the ones that failed the test? You can't just cull their numbers like that; living or dead, it's just not right." {Raise to challenge Soshi Maru, Courtier of 27 vs TN10}
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up!
"Welcome, samurai, to tea. I will be judging the exchanges, but otherwise, I will remain uninvolved after presenting the topic for all of you to address. As you have no doubt noticed, there are specific places set for each of you, determined in a set order by the drawing of names prior to our gathering. I will state the rules now."
Eyeing each of you in turn, Doji Kita would keep a neutral expression, judging you on your demeanor already, it would seem. "Everyone will take turns debating an issue, starting to my left, with Kan. It will continue onward in a circle, ending with Doji Koan and skipping back to Kan again. You may not interrupt another competitor as they make their case, but feel free to refute and argue against their claims come your turn. Once someone is unable to make a valid argument, they will be asked to leave, and a new topic will start. Is that understood?"
In mechanical rules, the debate's Awareness/Courtier TN is 5, to start. Once it has come full circle, the TN is boosted to 10, and increases by 5 every circle. You can call raises on your turn to increase your TN to argue against someone's point. If you succeed, it increases their next TN by the same amount you increased yours. The limit of these raises is limited by your Void, AND the circle round. That is to say, if its on the first time around, you can only raise once, even if your Void is higher. If its on the third time around, you can only raise twice if your Void is 2. Update: You can use the social skills Etiquette or Deceit as well, but the TNs of those rolls are increased by 5, since Courtier is the key skill. Beware of the honor loss of Deceit rolls if you're caught!
Once someone fails their roll, that's it for the topic, and that person is the weakest link, goodbye.
Around this time, Doji Kita's servants would return with a kettle of boiling water, and begin serving tea. "Ah, thank you." the Magistrate would say as she was served first, and then Doji Koan would follow shortly thereafter. "The first topic of debate is this: With the release of many spirits with the somewhat recent opening of Oblivion's Gate, the deceased spirits of many former Rokugani samurai have attempted to resettle into our lands, trying to continue old habits and pursue old grudges. Do these spirits have the same rights to exist as a normal, mortal citizen of Rokugan?" And with that, Kita would begin to drink from her tea cup.
Kan, the older gentleman of unremarkable distinction would be first up. The servants not having gotten to him quite yet, he would remain kneeling patiently, looking at the rest of the group. "As a member of the Order of the Four Temples, we've accepted initiates of all walks of life. I personally don't see any reason to exclude someone simply because they come from a walk of afterlife. As long as they don't mean any harm, what harm could come from giving them meaning?" {Courtier of 27}
Ide Jiro, the fair-haired charming Emissary from the Unicorn, would go next, after thanking the servant girl for pouring his tea; his smile would make her blush considerably. "It would seem to me that every Clan should be able to decide for themselves! I know for a fact that most unicorn would take any opportunity to bolster our numbers! If the spirits of the dead are willing to adapt to our customs and rules, let them come!" Letting out a proud, jovial laugh, he would take a sip of his tea. {Courtier of 18}
Soshi Maru, the scandalously-dressed shugenja from the Scorpion Clan, would be next. She was smiling in response to Jiro's answer, but how much attention she paid him was uncertain; her eyes were completely concealed by a densely-knit veil blocking her eyes from being seen. She would set her tea cup down, nodding to her hostess. "This is excellent tea, by the way. It's always a pleasure to see how much delicate care the Crane take in their tea." Bringing a fist to her mouth, she would clear her throat softly before speaking further. "I'm not in total disagreement. However, a lot of these spirits are long forgotten, and we don't know what kind of threats they possess. We really don't know where each of their loyalties lie, and what living relatives they might have that can verify their claims. If we were to accept them, I feel it would only be productive after arduous screening." {Courtier of 24}
Next up was Shinjo Gemmei, a woman who had little to say up until this point. She took a drink from her tea cup as she thought carefully before speaking, her eyes closed. "How would you go about screening them, Maru-san? Or, more to the fact, what would you do with the ones that failed the test? You can't just cull their numbers like that; living or dead, it's just not right." {Raise to challenge Soshi Maru, Courtier of 27 vs TN10}
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up!
Sutiiven
Hisashi mused quietly as he listened to the rest of the speakers before him, listening to their arguments. When it was his turn he would take a sip of tea, then sit the drink down, and cross his hands in front of his face.
"I would be lying if I were to say that the Mantis were actively interested offering citizenship to spirits. This is not because we are against them or do not respect their plight, but merely as we have done things our way for many years and don't actively seek to change anytime soon without a good reason to. However, for the sake of argument... the spirits were brought to our world through unusual means. The cycle of life dictates that the living are in our world, and the dead are in theirs. Their presence is a direct violation. And while this does not mean that each spirit should be treated with fear or disgust, it may mean that caution is the best course of action. While your zeal is understandable, Jiro-san, you will have to forgive the Mantis for not being as ready to open our doors to a being that is, effectively, something of an enigma to us - and the natural order of life itself."
{Courtier Check, 6k3 vs TN5}
"I would be lying if I were to say that the Mantis were actively interested offering citizenship to spirits. This is not because we are against them or do not respect their plight, but merely as we have done things our way for many years and don't actively seek to change anytime soon without a good reason to. However, for the sake of argument... the spirits were brought to our world through unusual means. The cycle of life dictates that the living are in our world, and the dead are in theirs. Their presence is a direct violation. And while this does not mean that each spirit should be treated with fear or disgust, it may mean that caution is the best course of action. While your zeal is understandable, Jiro-san, you will have to forgive the Mantis for not being as ready to open our doors to a being that is, effectively, something of an enigma to us - and the natural order of life itself."
{Courtier Check, 6k3 vs TN5}
Rain Yupa
The man sitting to Hisashi's left scoffed. "As if the Mantis are experts on enigmas. Dragon, Phoenix, Scorpion, I may have believed you. The greatest enigma you Mantis figure out is figuring out which direction the winds blow each morning so you can set your sails." All the other courtiers snickered at this, as Doji Koan went on.
"I'm with Soshi Maru, to a degree. I think the War of the Spirits have proven how dangerous these returned spirits can be. Not to mention Gozoku and Kolat agents popping up all over the place, and misplaced honorless ronin wrecking havok for havok's sake. With the few exceptions of those who have proven themselves invaluable to society, I think we'd be doing the entire Empire a favor by cutting down every last one of them." {Courtier of 47, and Ide Jiro gains a Free Raise from Doji Koan's Voice advantage.}
ALL TN'S HAVE INCREASED TO 10!
The eldest person at the table would chuckle to himself at Doji Koan's bold claims. "From a Clan that boasts some of the most peaceful people in Rokugan, you seem to be in an awful hurry to bring the axe to these beleagured spirits, Koan-kun. Haven't they been through enough in whatever torment they have endured all these centuries? Despite their personal pasts, I thought we were generous enough people to at least give them a brief reprieve. Especially the Crane, of all Clans." {Etiquette roll of 25 vs TN 20, Raise to Challenge Doji Koan}
Doji Koan would redden, slamming his hands on the table as if he was about to raise his voice, but a glance from Doji Kita seemed to cool his temper. He would close his eyes, but take no more sips from his tea.
Ide Jiro would finally take this opportunity to burst out laughing. That little exchange was priceless, and he wanted to ensure he stayed around to observe many more like it. "Excellent show, Kan-sama. I, for one, am against needless slaughter. We've already had our share of it in recent years. Truth be told, many peoples across Rokugan are still reeling from all the events starting with the Clan War onward. Frankly, I think we could use all the help rebuilding that we can get. The returned spirits of our ancestors might be a blessing in disguise!" {Courtier of 24}
Ide Jiro would turn and pay full attention to Soshi Maru; arguably, perhaps paying attention to the wrong assets of the woman as she began to speak once more. "I appreciate the support, Koan-san. But I think both you and Gemmai-san have misunderstood my intentions. The Scorpion Clan has never approved of 'wholesale slaughter'. As harsh as it is, many of the living make due by being mere ronin. Perhaps any old ancestors wishing to rejoin their old clans should be given the opportunities to do so... carefully... and the rest can adapt in any way they can manage." {Courtier of 20 vs TN 15}
The modest Shinjo Gemmei would let out an audible sigh, putting down her drink. "I appreciate the extension of kindness the Scorpion are trying to show here; but what are your true motivations? Is this simply a plot to dig up old secrets buried by the past for personal profit? What would you say to, oh, giving them their own land? With so many ancient heroes, I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to be recognized by the Emperor and perhaps granted Minor Clan status! Would your kindness extend to giving up plots of your own land for the spirits to make a living off of?" {Courtier of 10 vs TN 15 as Shinjo Gemmei attempts to attack Soshi Maru's agument.}
"That's enough, Gemmei. I think you are letting personal misgivings about the Scorpion Clan cloud your judgement. I have heard all I need to concerning this topic. You are dismissed." Doji Kita would place her cup upon the table, and wait patiently.
Shinjo Gemmei would take a few moments to register that she had loss, before standing up and bowing to her hostess. "I understand. I shall leave at once," she said plainly, before turning and leaving without another word.
Shinjo Gemmei eliminated! All TNs have been reset!
"The next topic of debate is this: Would expansion, and possibly conquest, into foreign lands be the right move to help quell future inter-clan disputes? You may begin." Doji Kita would say as a servant approached her to take away her empty tea cup, a second immediately stepping forth to replace it with a new, fuller one.
"... what?" Ide Jiro would respond, taking his attention off of Soshi Maru as he reflected upon what his hostess had just suggested. The Scorpion woman would flush slightly, unfolding her fan to mask this.
"The question is direction at Yoritomo Hisashi; he is the next to respond." Doji Kita would explain without showing the slightest reaction to that blunder; rather, she seemed to be staring directly at the Mantis Courtier.
Yoritomo Hisashi, go!
"I'm with Soshi Maru, to a degree. I think the War of the Spirits have proven how dangerous these returned spirits can be. Not to mention Gozoku and Kolat agents popping up all over the place, and misplaced honorless ronin wrecking havok for havok's sake. With the few exceptions of those who have proven themselves invaluable to society, I think we'd be doing the entire Empire a favor by cutting down every last one of them." {Courtier of 47, and Ide Jiro gains a Free Raise from Doji Koan's Voice advantage.}
ALL TN'S HAVE INCREASED TO 10!
The eldest person at the table would chuckle to himself at Doji Koan's bold claims. "From a Clan that boasts some of the most peaceful people in Rokugan, you seem to be in an awful hurry to bring the axe to these beleagured spirits, Koan-kun. Haven't they been through enough in whatever torment they have endured all these centuries? Despite their personal pasts, I thought we were generous enough people to at least give them a brief reprieve. Especially the Crane, of all Clans." {Etiquette roll of 25 vs TN 20, Raise to Challenge Doji Koan}
Doji Koan would redden, slamming his hands on the table as if he was about to raise his voice, but a glance from Doji Kita seemed to cool his temper. He would close his eyes, but take no more sips from his tea.
Ide Jiro would finally take this opportunity to burst out laughing. That little exchange was priceless, and he wanted to ensure he stayed around to observe many more like it. "Excellent show, Kan-sama. I, for one, am against needless slaughter. We've already had our share of it in recent years. Truth be told, many peoples across Rokugan are still reeling from all the events starting with the Clan War onward. Frankly, I think we could use all the help rebuilding that we can get. The returned spirits of our ancestors might be a blessing in disguise!" {Courtier of 24}
Ide Jiro would turn and pay full attention to Soshi Maru; arguably, perhaps paying attention to the wrong assets of the woman as she began to speak once more. "I appreciate the support, Koan-san. But I think both you and Gemmai-san have misunderstood my intentions. The Scorpion Clan has never approved of 'wholesale slaughter'. As harsh as it is, many of the living make due by being mere ronin. Perhaps any old ancestors wishing to rejoin their old clans should be given the opportunities to do so... carefully... and the rest can adapt in any way they can manage." {Courtier of 20 vs TN 15}
The modest Shinjo Gemmei would let out an audible sigh, putting down her drink. "I appreciate the extension of kindness the Scorpion are trying to show here; but what are your true motivations? Is this simply a plot to dig up old secrets buried by the past for personal profit? What would you say to, oh, giving them their own land? With so many ancient heroes, I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to be recognized by the Emperor and perhaps granted Minor Clan status! Would your kindness extend to giving up plots of your own land for the spirits to make a living off of?" {Courtier of 10 vs TN 15 as Shinjo Gemmei attempts to attack Soshi Maru's agument.}
"That's enough, Gemmei. I think you are letting personal misgivings about the Scorpion Clan cloud your judgement. I have heard all I need to concerning this topic. You are dismissed." Doji Kita would place her cup upon the table, and wait patiently.
Shinjo Gemmei would take a few moments to register that she had loss, before standing up and bowing to her hostess. "I understand. I shall leave at once," she said plainly, before turning and leaving without another word.
Shinjo Gemmei eliminated! All TNs have been reset!
"The next topic of debate is this: Would expansion, and possibly conquest, into foreign lands be the right move to help quell future inter-clan disputes? You may begin." Doji Kita would say as a servant approached her to take away her empty tea cup, a second immediately stepping forth to replace it with a new, fuller one.
"... what?" Ide Jiro would respond, taking his attention off of Soshi Maru as he reflected upon what his hostess had just suggested. The Scorpion woman would flush slightly, unfolding her fan to mask this.
"The question is direction at Yoritomo Hisashi; he is the next to respond." Doji Kita would explain without showing the slightest reaction to that blunder; rather, she seemed to be staring directly at the Mantis Courtier.
Yoritomo Hisashi, go!
Sutiiven
Yoritomo Hisashi raised an eyebrow at the exploding and subsequently shut down member of the Unicorn clan. He was mildly amused at how swiftly Doji Kita swept the legs out from beneath Gemmei's social feet, but took it more as an example what to expect from their judge.
Accepting the order to respond, he would again take a moment to ponder the question before speaking.
"I do not believe that expansion or conquest would help to settle inter-clan disputes. As Gemmei-san has aptly shown us, our own prejudices about each others clans are deeply ingrained into our various cultures - though we might not admit it openly, we all have our own personal misgivings and beliefs passed down through the generations. For example, my own clan's acceptance of peasant weapons and... if you will forgive the vulgar term, piracy... has been know to give other clan's a reason (legitimate or otherwise) to have disdain for our kin. Would this change with the expansion our great empire? I do not think so. I feel that further conquest will not remedy this, as it will merely give us more land to argue over - as well as potentially new 'clans' to argue with."
{Courtier Check, 6k3 vs TN5}
Accepting the order to respond, he would again take a moment to ponder the question before speaking.
"I do not believe that expansion or conquest would help to settle inter-clan disputes. As Gemmei-san has aptly shown us, our own prejudices about each others clans are deeply ingrained into our various cultures - though we might not admit it openly, we all have our own personal misgivings and beliefs passed down through the generations. For example, my own clan's acceptance of peasant weapons and... if you will forgive the vulgar term, piracy... has been know to give other clan's a reason (legitimate or otherwise) to have disdain for our kin. Would this change with the expansion our great empire? I do not think so. I feel that further conquest will not remedy this, as it will merely give us more land to argue over - as well as potentially new 'clans' to argue with."
{Courtier Check, 6k3 vs TN5}
Rain Yupa
"And what of the dealings of the Mantis? Have your people never once considered expanding beyond the coasts and nearby islands into further territories? I find that hard to believe. The Mantis has mostly stayed out of the affairs of the real Great Clans all these years not only by survival instinct, but most likely because they are taking this very opportunity to settle elsewhere; thus, proving the point that if we look outward, we might be looking inward so much." Doji Koan seemed uninterested in his tea at this point, as he was giving a dirty look to Yoritomo Hisashi out of the corner of his eye. {Courtier of 47 vs TN 10 (1 Raise) to challenge Hisashi's argument. Ide Jiro gains a free raise due to Koan's Voice advantage.}
Kan would clear his throat, reaching up to rub the unkempt stubble marring his jawline. "I'm not entirely sure Rokugan has the resources in this point and time to look elsewhere for new lands to take. Even if it's beneficial, our future is still cloudy and uncertain. Whether or not I agree with such an aggressive initiative, it shouldn't even be considered until we are in a secure position to do so." Kan would nod his head sagely several times, returning to his drink. {Courtier check of 25 vs TN 5}
"Mmmm... I don't think you should be so rough on our friend from the Yoritomo clan here, Koan-san. He's more learned than you give him credit for. Isn't that right, Hisashi-san?" Maru would lean forward, resting her elbows upon the table and her chin upon folded hands, giving both Hisashi and Koan an exact idea of how loosely her kimono was tied with a pair of eyefulls. "Recent events over the past couple decades have shown the Scorpion Clan that... well, frankly, there's no place like home. Take my word on it, that there's nothing out there that you'd want that you don't already have." {Deceit (Seduction) of 35 & 42 vs TN 15x2 (+5 for noncourtier, +5 for raise vs Hisashi & +5 for raise vs Koan, gaining 4 free raises vs the latter; both Hisashi and Koan have their TNs raised by 5.)
Ide Jiro, who was cursing the fact that he was on the wrong side of the table, was now eyeing Gemmei's now-empty seat. Thinking better of the situation, he decided not to waste his turn asking to change seats. "As the... ah... remaining Unicorn representative left at the table, I must confirm with the lovely Soshi Maru about her claims; the Burning Sands are nowhere we want to consider settling when we have perfectly good land here. Such rolling hills, such majestic mountains... don't you agree, boys?" He would smirk smugly. {Courtier, 22 vs TN 5}.
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up! TNs increased to 10, though you got checked twice, and are rolling against TN 20!
Kan would clear his throat, reaching up to rub the unkempt stubble marring his jawline. "I'm not entirely sure Rokugan has the resources in this point and time to look elsewhere for new lands to take. Even if it's beneficial, our future is still cloudy and uncertain. Whether or not I agree with such an aggressive initiative, it shouldn't even be considered until we are in a secure position to do so." Kan would nod his head sagely several times, returning to his drink. {Courtier check of 25 vs TN 5}
"Mmmm... I don't think you should be so rough on our friend from the Yoritomo clan here, Koan-san. He's more learned than you give him credit for. Isn't that right, Hisashi-san?" Maru would lean forward, resting her elbows upon the table and her chin upon folded hands, giving both Hisashi and Koan an exact idea of how loosely her kimono was tied with a pair of eyefulls. "Recent events over the past couple decades have shown the Scorpion Clan that... well, frankly, there's no place like home. Take my word on it, that there's nothing out there that you'd want that you don't already have." {Deceit (Seduction) of 35 & 42 vs TN 15x2 (+5 for noncourtier, +5 for raise vs Hisashi & +5 for raise vs Koan, gaining 4 free raises vs the latter; both Hisashi and Koan have their TNs raised by 5.)
Ide Jiro, who was cursing the fact that he was on the wrong side of the table, was now eyeing Gemmei's now-empty seat. Thinking better of the situation, he decided not to waste his turn asking to change seats. "As the... ah... remaining Unicorn representative left at the table, I must confirm with the lovely Soshi Maru about her claims; the Burning Sands are nowhere we want to consider settling when we have perfectly good land here. Such rolling hills, such majestic mountains... don't you agree, boys?" He would smirk smugly. {Courtier, 22 vs TN 5}.
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up! TNs increased to 10, though you got checked twice, and are rolling against TN 20!
Sutiiven
@ Courtier Debate
{Courtier 28 vs TN20}
Hisashi was not thrown by the direct attack, nor the advances of the seductive Scorpion. He simply smirked and shook his head confidently.
"You misunderstand me, Koan-san. Of course we have looked into other territories, perhaps as much or more so than any... ahem... 'real' clan. But the question Kita-sama posed was not about our interest in claiming more land, but whether said interests would help to quell inter-clan disputes. To that I still say no. Simply conquering new lands may give clans a reason to band together temporarily, but once over, they will no doubt be likely to return to their old ways. I do not mean this in insult, merely a statement of fact that we are creatures of habit. I believe that working to improve diplomatic relations between clans is a better option before any kind of territory acquisition. And, as Kan-san aptly pointed out, we do not have the resources to do so at the moment even if it would stop all clan conflict for a thousand years - indeed, at this point I think a sudden expansion might hinder current clan relations, not improve them."
When finished, he took up his tea, drank again, and eagerly awaited a response like a shark circling a potential meal.
{Courtier 28 vs TN20}
Hisashi was not thrown by the direct attack, nor the advances of the seductive Scorpion. He simply smirked and shook his head confidently.
"You misunderstand me, Koan-san. Of course we have looked into other territories, perhaps as much or more so than any... ahem... 'real' clan. But the question Kita-sama posed was not about our interest in claiming more land, but whether said interests would help to quell inter-clan disputes. To that I still say no. Simply conquering new lands may give clans a reason to band together temporarily, but once over, they will no doubt be likely to return to their old ways. I do not mean this in insult, merely a statement of fact that we are creatures of habit. I believe that working to improve diplomatic relations between clans is a better option before any kind of territory acquisition. And, as Kan-san aptly pointed out, we do not have the resources to do so at the moment even if it would stop all clan conflict for a thousand years - indeed, at this point I think a sudden expansion might hinder current clan relations, not improve them."
When finished, he took up his tea, drank again, and eagerly awaited a response like a shark circling a potential meal.
Rain Yupa
Doji Koan would hesitate after Hisashi's response, going to drink from his tea without realizing that he had already finished it, adding to his flustered frustration. "Well, uh... need I remind the group that the majority of conflicts between great clans in the past have been over land? Yes, such conflicts might be inevitable, but with more land to bicker over, it would make sense that said conflicts would be fewer and farther between." {Courtier of 26 vs TN 15, and Ide Jiro gains a Free Raise from Koan's Voice advantage.}
Kan would smile to his Mantis opponent. "Well said, Hisashi-san. I will point out that we do have more peacefully-minded citizens in Rokugan, such as the Asahina family, the Iuchi family, and many of the monk orders. But such groups I feel would be unable to hold such territory peacefully, since threats from outside are theoretical newly-expanded borders would probably insist on taking back on what they perceive as theirs, returning us once more to the circle of violence." {Courtier of 25 vs TN 10}
"Not a kind word for me?" Maru would ask the opposite side of the table, leaning back up and opening her fan to cool herself. "Then let me throw this out: The kami. They are an integral part of our lifestyle, be it from the shugenjas' interactions to being the bastions of our faith. From my understanding from their time in the Burning Sands, the Ki-Rin had to adopt an entirely different faith and magic system due to lack of interaction with the kami. Isn't that right, Jiro-san?" {Courtier of 15 vs TN 10}
"That's right. You've done your homework, my dear Maru-san," he would say, turning to face her and smiling broadly.
...
"Is... that all you have to say, Ide Jiro?" Doji Kita would ask after few awkward moments of silence. Soshi Maru's fan would flutter before the lower half of her face, while she seemed to be looking at Jiro out of the corner of her eye, maybe?
"Of course not. Just building the tension before I elaborate. During the Ki-Rin's self-imposed exile, they had been forced to lead a purely nomadic lifestyle. Partly due to the fact that they were constantly on the hunt of new foreign threats, but also due to necessity. Magic worked poorly, and the land was equally as poor. All of us are blessed to have such fertile lands in Rokugan, and we'd all be fools if we tried to obtain more than what we need. If your purses are brimming with koku, why force a few more zeni inside?" {Courtier 23 vs TN 10}
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up!
Kan would smile to his Mantis opponent. "Well said, Hisashi-san. I will point out that we do have more peacefully-minded citizens in Rokugan, such as the Asahina family, the Iuchi family, and many of the monk orders. But such groups I feel would be unable to hold such territory peacefully, since threats from outside are theoretical newly-expanded borders would probably insist on taking back on what they perceive as theirs, returning us once more to the circle of violence." {Courtier of 25 vs TN 10}
"Not a kind word for me?" Maru would ask the opposite side of the table, leaning back up and opening her fan to cool herself. "Then let me throw this out: The kami. They are an integral part of our lifestyle, be it from the shugenjas' interactions to being the bastions of our faith. From my understanding from their time in the Burning Sands, the Ki-Rin had to adopt an entirely different faith and magic system due to lack of interaction with the kami. Isn't that right, Jiro-san?" {Courtier of 15 vs TN 10}
"That's right. You've done your homework, my dear Maru-san," he would say, turning to face her and smiling broadly.
...
"Is... that all you have to say, Ide Jiro?" Doji Kita would ask after few awkward moments of silence. Soshi Maru's fan would flutter before the lower half of her face, while she seemed to be looking at Jiro out of the corner of her eye, maybe?
"Of course not. Just building the tension before I elaborate. During the Ki-Rin's self-imposed exile, they had been forced to lead a purely nomadic lifestyle. Partly due to the fact that they were constantly on the hunt of new foreign threats, but also due to necessity. Magic worked poorly, and the land was equally as poor. All of us are blessed to have such fertile lands in Rokugan, and we'd all be fools if we tried to obtain more than what we need. If your purses are brimming with koku, why force a few more zeni inside?" {Courtier 23 vs TN 10}
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up!
Sutiiven
Hisashi made a slight "Hm" as Ide Jiro was just "building the tension." Such an interesting development it was, for he had not taken the Unicorn Emissary to be one for... ahem... dramatics. But no matter. The debate would continue on.
"Forgive me for diverting back to Doji-san's comment... but I feel that such an theory as his about the increased land is not entirely without merit. Sure, more land would allow conflicts to be farther apart."
He would then raise a hand, index finger up in emphasis.
"However, I do not think that this is a boon. The further the distance, the longer our allies are away from home. If, say, the outsiders we have conquered rise up and attempt to reclaim their lands - lands that we ourselves are fighting over! Our numbers will be dwindled... an area of under-defended territory could be taken before we would have time to call them back for assistance."
He would then open himself up again and shake his head.
"We are a strong people, but if our warriors are off fighting another clan for territory, say, three days travel away, by the time we sent for our allies to return... our very lifestyle could be destroyed by a different enemy."
He would finish off the tea in his cup, and sit the empty vessel down to build some tension of his own.
"Is that worth the extra territory? I think not. No change in internal conflicts, increased threat from external conflicts. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but it seems... how should I put this... as if we're trying to spend our koku on too many plows and not enough seeds."
{Courtier Check 34 vs. TN 15 - 6k3}
"Forgive me for diverting back to Doji-san's comment... but I feel that such an theory as his about the increased land is not entirely without merit. Sure, more land would allow conflicts to be farther apart."
He would then raise a hand, index finger up in emphasis.
"However, I do not think that this is a boon. The further the distance, the longer our allies are away from home. If, say, the outsiders we have conquered rise up and attempt to reclaim their lands - lands that we ourselves are fighting over! Our numbers will be dwindled... an area of under-defended territory could be taken before we would have time to call them back for assistance."
He would then open himself up again and shake his head.
"We are a strong people, but if our warriors are off fighting another clan for territory, say, three days travel away, by the time we sent for our allies to return... our very lifestyle could be destroyed by a different enemy."
He would finish off the tea in his cup, and sit the empty vessel down to build some tension of his own.
"Is that worth the extra territory? I think not. No change in internal conflicts, increased threat from external conflicts. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but it seems... how should I put this... as if we're trying to spend our koku on too many plows and not enough seeds."
{Courtier Check 34 vs. TN 15 - 6k3}
Rain Yupa
Doji Koan would seem less agitated, and spoke now with a bit less bitterness in his voice. "I appreciate the recognition from the Mantis Clan. However, you make it sound like we'd be completely without military support. No matter the direction we go, the Emperor could simply order the nearest clan to build outposts no more than a day's ride away. It would almost be necessary as settlers begin to build upon the lands they find or conquer, as they will undoubtedly need supplies from our homeland to make due in the beginning." {Courtier check of 51 vs TN 15, and Ide Jiro gains a free raise from Koan's Voice advantage.}
Kan would suddenly chuckle, his weary eyes closed. Smiling, he holds a hand up to his mouth as if to stifle further laughter. "All of you DO realize that there are ways beyond warfare to accomplish these ends. Diplomacy hasn't even been considered as a viable option yet. We could simply ask to share their lands. Risking ridicule, I propose that not every gaijin culture out there is as malevolent as we're making ourselves out to be." {Courtier check of 32 vs TN 15}
Soshi Maru would flick shut her fan, turning to face Kan. "As a matter of fact, the Scorpion and the Unicorn have both spent a good deal of time outside of Rokugan, moreso with the latter than the former. There are a LOT of hostile forces out there who wouldn't mind seeing us, invaders in their eyes, wiped out to a man. To play kansen's advocate for a moment, perhaps all of these disputes could be negated if we just wipe them out first? No more threats, no more worry." {Courtier check of 12 vs TN 15... Wa wa wa wawawawawaaa!}
That's enough." Doji Kita would suddenly interject. "I believe I'll have to draw the line at genocide, thank you."
"What...? But, I... it was just a theory! I didn't-
"Thank you, that will be all." Soshi Maru's cheeks would flush a bit, and she would storm out of the debate chamber; leaving the monk Kan, the unicorn Ide Jiro, the mantis Yoritomo Hisashi, and the crane Doji Koan. "I would like to inform the rest of you that dinner will be served shortly, probably before we finish the next debate. We'll start with some miso soup, followed by a dish of rice and seasoned quail." She would pause and look to Kan. "Is that acceptable for you, Kan-san?"
He would wave one hand simply. "No meat at all, if it's possible."
"Entirely." Kita would give a nod to a servant who disappeared off around a corner. "Your views on the previous matter have been hopefully as enlightening for each other as they have been for me. But now, I present a topic to discuss that has come to recent light throughout the debate. I hope our dear competitor Yoritomo Hisashi has no objections to it." She would pause, before elaborating. "Should the Minor Clans be more closely observed and regulated, so an alliance similar to the Three Man Alliance of 1121 doesn't threaten to tip the balance of power away from the Great Clans, towards one massive unified force? Ide Jiro, you may begin."
{Soshi Maru eliminated! All TNs have been reset!}
"... did she really have to leave?"
"Jiro..." Kita would begin to say sternly.
"Yes, yes, I understand," he would start with an exaggerated sigh. "... I think trying to micromanage the Minor Clans would be a terrible idea. Such actions would only encourage them to attempt such an alliance, one that, by the very nature of this debate, we'd be trying to prevent." {Courtier of 37 vs TN 5}
Yoritomo Hisashi, your TN is 5!
Kan would suddenly chuckle, his weary eyes closed. Smiling, he holds a hand up to his mouth as if to stifle further laughter. "All of you DO realize that there are ways beyond warfare to accomplish these ends. Diplomacy hasn't even been considered as a viable option yet. We could simply ask to share their lands. Risking ridicule, I propose that not every gaijin culture out there is as malevolent as we're making ourselves out to be." {Courtier check of 32 vs TN 15}
Soshi Maru would flick shut her fan, turning to face Kan. "As a matter of fact, the Scorpion and the Unicorn have both spent a good deal of time outside of Rokugan, moreso with the latter than the former. There are a LOT of hostile forces out there who wouldn't mind seeing us, invaders in their eyes, wiped out to a man. To play kansen's advocate for a moment, perhaps all of these disputes could be negated if we just wipe them out first? No more threats, no more worry." {Courtier check of 12 vs TN 15... Wa wa wa wawawawawaaa!}
That's enough." Doji Kita would suddenly interject. "I believe I'll have to draw the line at genocide, thank you."
"What...? But, I... it was just a theory! I didn't-
"Thank you, that will be all." Soshi Maru's cheeks would flush a bit, and she would storm out of the debate chamber; leaving the monk Kan, the unicorn Ide Jiro, the mantis Yoritomo Hisashi, and the crane Doji Koan. "I would like to inform the rest of you that dinner will be served shortly, probably before we finish the next debate. We'll start with some miso soup, followed by a dish of rice and seasoned quail." She would pause and look to Kan. "Is that acceptable for you, Kan-san?"
He would wave one hand simply. "No meat at all, if it's possible."
"Entirely." Kita would give a nod to a servant who disappeared off around a corner. "Your views on the previous matter have been hopefully as enlightening for each other as they have been for me. But now, I present a topic to discuss that has come to recent light throughout the debate. I hope our dear competitor Yoritomo Hisashi has no objections to it." She would pause, before elaborating. "Should the Minor Clans be more closely observed and regulated, so an alliance similar to the Three Man Alliance of 1121 doesn't threaten to tip the balance of power away from the Great Clans, towards one massive unified force? Ide Jiro, you may begin."
{Soshi Maru eliminated! All TNs have been reset!}
"... did she really have to leave?"
"Jiro..." Kita would begin to say sternly.
"Yes, yes, I understand," he would start with an exaggerated sigh. "... I think trying to micromanage the Minor Clans would be a terrible idea. Such actions would only encourage them to attempt such an alliance, one that, by the very nature of this debate, we'd be trying to prevent." {Courtier of 37 vs TN 5}
Yoritomo Hisashi, your TN is 5!
Sutiiven
Hisashi indeed had no objections, though it was clear that this topic hit closer to home than the previous ones.
"I am well aware of the... unique circumstances of my people's ascension to Great Clan status. I am also well aware that two factions of my ancestors were participants in the Three Man Alliance. However, it is not my place to atone for the sins of the past. Nor do I feel we should make the same mistakes in the future. If I were to say that minor clans should be regulated and observed like livestock, I would be discrediting my own heritage."
He would take a deep breath. He was clearly treading very carefully on the topic at hand.
"No... there must be a better way. Perhaps Kan-san's repeated pleas for diplomacy are indeed necessary in this case. We cannot allow an incident similar to the Three Man Alliance to come about and destroy what we have... however we cannot simply shut the minor clans down and ignore them either. Perhaps if there were some sort of application process in place... not that I claim to know enough about how to do such a thing... but if there were a manner that would allow the stronger minor clans to appeal for Great Clan status... perhaps such an incentive would drive them away from thoughts of uprising."
His breathing was slow and deliberate. Doji Kita had chosen this topic for a very specific reason, no doubt. He was grateful that Maru had been eliminated for the sake of avoiding a conflict. Still, he was cautious to keep control of himself during the length of this particular topic of discussion.
{Courtier Check vs TN 5, 6k3}
"I am well aware of the... unique circumstances of my people's ascension to Great Clan status. I am also well aware that two factions of my ancestors were participants in the Three Man Alliance. However, it is not my place to atone for the sins of the past. Nor do I feel we should make the same mistakes in the future. If I were to say that minor clans should be regulated and observed like livestock, I would be discrediting my own heritage."
He would take a deep breath. He was clearly treading very carefully on the topic at hand.
"No... there must be a better way. Perhaps Kan-san's repeated pleas for diplomacy are indeed necessary in this case. We cannot allow an incident similar to the Three Man Alliance to come about and destroy what we have... however we cannot simply shut the minor clans down and ignore them either. Perhaps if there were some sort of application process in place... not that I claim to know enough about how to do such a thing... but if there were a manner that would allow the stronger minor clans to appeal for Great Clan status... perhaps such an incentive would drive them away from thoughts of uprising."
His breathing was slow and deliberate. Doji Kita had chosen this topic for a very specific reason, no doubt. He was grateful that Maru had been eliminated for the sake of avoiding a conflict. Still, he was cautious to keep control of himself during the length of this particular topic of discussion.
{Courtier Check vs TN 5, 6k3}
Rain Yupa
Doji Koan would scoff as soon as Hisashi would finish speaking, as if insulted and amused all at the same time. "Yes, we all know how much every Minor Clan would enjoy Great Clan status. With the exception of the Mantis, the Emperor has never granted such a boon to any one people before. Arguably, the Mantis aren't one people, so it might be safe to say that it's never happened, period. All of us Great Clans earned and kept our status over the centuries by dedicated and faithful service to the Emperor, be it Hantei or Toturi. If the Minor Clans want recognition, let them earn it." {Courtier check with 1 raise, 48 vs TN 10. Hisashi's TN is raised by 5. Ide Jiro gains a free raise yadda yadda yadda.}
"Need I remind you, Koan-san, that the Minor Clans exist due to exceptional service." Kan would reposition himself on his mat before continuing, not pressing the matter further. "Now, the descendants of the original founders of these clans may or may not be as noble as their ancestors; however, we owe it to these founders to respect and acknowledge their merit. We should trust the Minor Clans to do the right thing, as they have all these years." {Courtier of 18 vs TN 5}
{TNs raised to 10.}
"Wellll..." Jiro would start off, biting his lip. "Sometimes... good intentions don't necessarily conclude with happy endings." Jiro would have the attentions of everyone as he extrapolated. "There has been some cases, like with the Snake, the Hare, and possibly the Boar. Cases where these noble minor clans had become corrupted by the forces of darkness, and with their small numbers, the corruptions were often complete. Not every noble sentiment can withstand the test of time, Kan. No matter how much we try." {Courtier check with 2 raises vs Kan, 26 vs TN 20. Kan's TN is increased by 10.}
Yoritomo Hisashi, your TN is 15!
"Need I remind you, Koan-san, that the Minor Clans exist due to exceptional service." Kan would reposition himself on his mat before continuing, not pressing the matter further. "Now, the descendants of the original founders of these clans may or may not be as noble as their ancestors; however, we owe it to these founders to respect and acknowledge their merit. We should trust the Minor Clans to do the right thing, as they have all these years." {Courtier of 18 vs TN 5}
{TNs raised to 10.}
"Wellll..." Jiro would start off, biting his lip. "Sometimes... good intentions don't necessarily conclude with happy endings." Jiro would have the attentions of everyone as he extrapolated. "There has been some cases, like with the Snake, the Hare, and possibly the Boar. Cases where these noble minor clans had become corrupted by the forces of darkness, and with their small numbers, the corruptions were often complete. Not every noble sentiment can withstand the test of time, Kan. No matter how much we try." {Courtier check with 2 raises vs Kan, 26 vs TN 20. Kan's TN is increased by 10.}
Yoritomo Hisashi, your TN is 15!
Sutiiven
Hisashi had been playing defensively for long enough. Koan had been throwing rocks at the dormant hornets nest for most of the various debate topics. But no more. Koan was getting extremely personal, and the Mantis was not looking to be belittled today.
"I am offended that you should suggest that the Mantis are not one people, Koan-san. Indeed, our ancestors herald from many walks of life, and we have an unusual acceptance of the individuality, amongst other things."
He had to work hard to control himself, but he was managing it. Koan's words were like poison to the very lifestyle he grew up with, and he was sure to make it known that he was not pleased at the accusations.
"HOWEVER! We are indeed one people! The Mantis are a living, breathing example of what the minor clans can do if given the chance! We are as ferociously devoted the the Emperor as the Crane, Scorpion, Phoenix, or any other clan! Who is to rightfully say that the minor clans are not also willing to fight and die for Rokugan as the rest of us?"
His breathing was heavier, but still deliberate. It was sheer will and skill as a courtier that kept him in control enough to not make a faux-pas. This was a critical moment of the debate, and it would be a waste to squander the work here with an uncontrolled outburst.
"I am offended that you should suggest that the Mantis are not one people, Koan-san. Indeed, our ancestors herald from many walks of life, and we have an unusual acceptance of the individuality, amongst other things."
He had to work hard to control himself, but he was managing it. Koan's words were like poison to the very lifestyle he grew up with, and he was sure to make it known that he was not pleased at the accusations.
"HOWEVER! We are indeed one people! The Mantis are a living, breathing example of what the minor clans can do if given the chance! We are as ferociously devoted the the Emperor as the Crane, Scorpion, Phoenix, or any other clan! Who is to rightfully say that the minor clans are not also willing to fight and die for Rokugan as the rest of us?"
His breathing was heavier, but still deliberate. It was sheer will and skill as a courtier that kept him in control enough to not make a faux-pas. This was a critical moment of the debate, and it would be a waste to squander the work here with an uncontrolled outburst.
Rain Yupa
Koan seemed actually taken aback at first; for a while, he was honestly starting to believe Hisashi had no backbone. "Yes, you are an example of what the Minor Clans can do. Just think if there were 2 Mantis Clans. Or 3! Or, celestial heavens forbid, you all banded together and formed one massive Clan! Think of the anarchy such a joining would cause if led by the Yoritomo!" Ohhhhh snapz, he just went there! {Courtier with 2 raises, 46 vs TN 25. Hisashi's TN goes up by +10, Ide Jiro rocks the Free Raise boat.}
"Now, now, Koan-san," the monk Kan started, raising his hands defensively. Things were getting a little too heated. "The Mantis have accomplished acts of both great chaos, and of honorable duty, in the name of the Emperor. One can say the same for the Crane as well, or any Great Clan. But this is not about them, it is about the Minor Clans, if you recall. I do not believe any have the aspirations for the things you claim; in fact, most of the rises of power they have seen over the centuries has been by necessity, more than profit or glory." {Coutier with 1 raise against Koan, 31 vs TN 15. Koan's TN is increased by 5.}
{TNs raised to 15.}
"I think the three of you are losing sight of the real question at hand: Supervision. You all make it sound like there IS none. But isn't that what the Magistrates are for? They oversee the dealings of the various Great Clans. Now, I'm no expert on Magistracy, but I don't believe for one moment that they don't already oversee the Minor Clans already! Most inter-clan disputes are typically handled at the discretion of the various daimyo; but if it was a matter of power balance, then that's when the Emperor should step in, and has stepped in, in the past." {Coutier check, 26 vs TN 15}
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up! Your TN is 25!
"Now, now, Koan-san," the monk Kan started, raising his hands defensively. Things were getting a little too heated. "The Mantis have accomplished acts of both great chaos, and of honorable duty, in the name of the Emperor. One can say the same for the Crane as well, or any Great Clan. But this is not about them, it is about the Minor Clans, if you recall. I do not believe any have the aspirations for the things you claim; in fact, most of the rises of power they have seen over the centuries has been by necessity, more than profit or glory." {Coutier with 1 raise against Koan, 31 vs TN 15. Koan's TN is increased by 5.}
{TNs raised to 15.}
"I think the three of you are losing sight of the real question at hand: Supervision. You all make it sound like there IS none. But isn't that what the Magistrates are for? They oversee the dealings of the various Great Clans. Now, I'm no expert on Magistracy, but I don't believe for one moment that they don't already oversee the Minor Clans already! Most inter-clan disputes are typically handled at the discretion of the various daimyo; but if it was a matter of power balance, then that's when the Emperor should step in, and has stepped in, in the past." {Coutier check, 26 vs TN 15}
Yoritomo Hisashi, you're up! Your TN is 25!
Sutiiven
A more than a little shaken Yoritomo Hisashi silently stood from his location and bowed towards Doji Kita.
"I must apologize, Kita-sama, but I am afraid that I am too emotionally attached to this topic to continue on in an appropriate manner. With your permission, I will take my leave of this debate."
He was genuinely upset at Koan's assault on both his people and the very family he belonged to, and could only hope that Kan or Jiro could use it as ammunition to eliminate the vicious Crane courtier in the remaining rounds.
"I must apologize, Kita-sama, but I am afraid that I am too emotionally attached to this topic to continue on in an appropriate manner. With your permission, I will take my leave of this debate."
He was genuinely upset at Koan's assault on both his people and the very family he belonged to, and could only hope that Kan or Jiro could use it as ammunition to eliminate the vicious Crane courtier in the remaining rounds.
Rain Yupa
Doji Kita would nod in acceptance of Hisashi's forfeit. "Very well, Hisashi-san. It's a shame you were unable to stay for dinner. Your effort was a noble one." the Magistrate would tell the Mantis courtier, as he moved to vacate.
During his egress, he and Doji Koan would, for but a moment, share a glance, with mutual meaning behind it. One that said that this was not over.
During his egress, he and Doji Koan would, for but a moment, share a glance, with mutual meaning behind it. One that said that this was not over.
