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 Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:00 pm
im a christian and i sometimes do the good thing like the sayin "what would jesus do?"
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:42 am
Christians usually just read their own morality into the Bible. Morality is a sort of instinct we have because we are a social species and it keeps society together.
Following the "morality" of the Bible isn't really listening to your own moral sense, it's following a book you have deemed an authority. If the Bible was really such a good source of morals, it wouldn't contain laws we now deem as immoral, and you wouldn't need to look for excuses to justify them.
Stoning a disobedient child is one example. People know this is morally wrong. That's why they make excuses such as "that's the old testament", "those were different times" and similar ones.
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:59 am
Artto Christians usually just read their own morality into the Bible. Morality is a sort of instinct we have because we are a social species and it keeps society together. Following the "morality" of the Bible isn't really listening to your own moral sense, it's following a book you have deemed an authority. If the Bible was really such a good source of morals, it wouldn't contain laws we now deem as immoral, and you wouldn't need to look for excuses to justify them. Stoning a disobedient child is one example. People know this is morally wrong. That's why they make excuses such as "that's the old testament", "those were different times" and similar ones. Except it is no excuse, you must remember that the first Covenant was not set down as an Absolute and Ageless Moral code. It was set down as a strict confines of law, for one specific nation, even today Jew's state openly that Gentiles need not follow the Law or Commandments, and need only to live a rightious life of good will and virtue. In terms of Christian Theology it was eventually done away with, when God's relationship was expanded to all people and not just the Jews, and thus the new Covenant and a absolute and ageless morality was than instituted.
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:46 pm
G0TH1C G33K Why is it that Christians will do good because they think it's the Christian thing to do when normal people like myself will do a good deed because we want to? This in no way is meant to be mean, I merely noticed that most Christians do nice because they feel they need to.
Why do I not kill? It's not my right to kill someone and cut their life short for personal gain. (Unless they have those intentions, then I have no choice.)
It feels good to care about other people, and you don't need a deity to tell you this. It's just a social level we are accustomed to.
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:57 pm
Captain_Shinzo G0TH1C G33K Why is it that Christians will do good because they think it's the Christian thing to do when normal people like myself will do a good deed because we want to? This in no way is meant to be mean, I merely noticed that most Christians do nice because they feel they need to.
Why do I not kill? It's not my right to kill someone and cut their life short for personal gain. (Unless they have those intentions, then I have no choice.)
It feels good to care about other people, and you don't need a deity to tell you this. It's just a social level we are accustomed to.Taken to its logical conclusion, then what is a right, and why must we be morally obliged to observe the rights of others? Especially when morality is nonexistent and irrelevant? If the worldview of an individual is that murder is completely acceptable, who are you to stop this person? What moral high ground do you have, if it does not affect yourself? Is not stopping one of these individuals, at its core, an act of irrational emotional and moral savagery, beating up on those who are different based on THEIR moral values? Not that I disagree entirely. I just thought I should draw the statement to it's logical end and see what happened.
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:14 pm
divineseraph Captain_Shinzo G0TH1C G33K Why is it that Christians will do good because they think it's the Christian thing to do when normal people like myself will do a good deed because we want to? This in no way is meant to be mean, I merely noticed that most Christians do nice because they feel they need to.
Why do I not kill? It's not my right to kill someone and cut their life short for personal gain. (Unless they have those intentions, then I have no choice.)
It feels good to care about other people, and you don't need a deity to tell you this. It's just a social level we are accustomed to.Taken to its logical conclusion, then what is a right, and why must we be morally obliged to observe the rights of others? Especially when morality is nonexistent and irrelevant? If the worldview of an individual is that murder is completely acceptable, who are you to stop this person? What moral high ground do you have, if it does not affect yourself? Is not stopping one of these individuals, at its core, an act of irrational emotional and moral savagery, beating up on those who are different based on THEIR moral values? Not that I disagree entirely. I just thought I should draw the statement to it's logical end and see what happened.
The only thing I would think of is interacting with these morals. I would say you only need to take action if this person asserts their morals that can affect someone else in a negative way. ( AKA Murder )
You can look at murder being right or wrong, but ending someone's life is effecting someone else's life. Which I would say would be a little problem.
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:22 pm
Morals make the most sense when looked upon from an evolutionary perspective. Things like "don't kill", "don't steal" and such benefit a society (remember, as a social species, what's important is the survival of the "tribe", not the individual), which makes it prosper. Ants in an anthill don't kill each other and don't steal food from each other. Wolves in a wolf pack also have rules.
This, coupled with empathy, which also helps us work together, is what makes us have a "sense of morality".
These rules get more and more complex as society gets more complex. There are also rules that don't make sense, like "homosexuality is wrong", but these are more about obeying an authority (which also makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint), than what we truly sense as "wrong".
Solving the question of "what is moral", by saying "what god says is moral", doesn't really solve it. Cause it still doesn't make any more sense.
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:36 pm
Artto Morals make the most sense when looked upon from an evolutionary perspective. Things like "don't kill", "don't steal" and such benefit a society (remember, as a social species, what's important is the survival of the "tribe", not the individual), which makes it prosper. Ants in an anthill don't kill each other and don't steal food from each other. Wolves in a wolf pack also have rules. This, coupled with empathy, which also helps us work together, is what makes us have a "sense of morality". These rules get more and more complex as society gets more complex. There are also rules that don't make sense, like "homosexuality is wrong", but these are more about obeying an authority (which also makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint), than what we truly sense as "wrong". Solving the question of "what is moral", by saying "what god says is moral", doesn't really solve it. Cause it still doesn't make any more sense. You're absolutely right on that part. Morals of someone's personal view is from the majority and knowledge. Makes sense as to why most serial killers or criminals have had bad childhoods, bad education, social disconnection, etc...
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:08 pm
Captain_Shinzo divineseraph Captain_Shinzo G0TH1C G33K Why is it that Christians will do good because they think it's the Christian thing to do when normal people like myself will do a good deed because we want to? This in no way is meant to be mean, I merely noticed that most Christians do nice because they feel they need to.
Why do I not kill? It's not my right to kill someone and cut their life short for personal gain. (Unless they have those intentions, then I have no choice.)
It feels good to care about other people, and you don't need a deity to tell you this. It's just a social level we are accustomed to.Taken to its logical conclusion, then what is a right, and why must we be morally obliged to observe the rights of others? Especially when morality is nonexistent and irrelevant? If the worldview of an individual is that murder is completely acceptable, who are you to stop this person? What moral high ground do you have, if it does not affect yourself? Is not stopping one of these individuals, at its core, an act of irrational emotional and moral savagery, beating up on those who are different based on THEIR moral values? Not that I disagree entirely. I just thought I should draw the statement to it's logical end and see what happened.
The only thing I would think of is interacting with these morals. I would say you only need to take action if this person asserts their morals that can affect someone else in a negative way. ( AKA Murder )
You can look at murder being right or wrong, but ending someone's life is effecting someone else's life. Which I would say would be a little problem.Which is exactly my point. To YOU it is a problem. To THEM it might not be. Who are you to force your morals on them? And how is that different from any other moralism? How is it different from ganging up on the minority who simply believes differently? Edit after a white russian- Ice king- I'm rocking your worldview!
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