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 Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:45 pm
then123 I think I should second her ;3 Rin and len I Am pretty sure were the first ones made, between them and Lily <3 I could be wrong though, Nya! If you're saying that you aren't seconding her at all. . . . Everyone(Besides me who isn't sure but not disagreeing) has said Lily was drawn and created first but Rin and Len were released first. Even the girl you are seconding said that. So from the looks of it you aren't paying much attention of what's going on at all. . .
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:30 pm
RavenStrife Alysoun @Tiryn: I WILL NOT BE SILENCED.
-arms self with a fire extinguisher- You should hush because you sound like a complete idiot nor does it even sound like you're even listening to what we're saying and wasting our time even trying to reason with you. My response to Tiryn was a joke... D: I'm sorry if it wasn't obvious enough.
My apologies also for not making sense. I am pretty bad at wording things. @_@
Ok, a Vocaloid's design is purely meant to market that Vocaloid. Yuri Masuda voiced Lily, and she conveniently had an anime-stlye version that already existed. That design right there is what is used as her box art, because if someone savvy in Japanese music saw Lily, they would make the connection to Yuri Masuda, her voice actor, and have a good idea of what she sounds like. If they are looking for that kind of voice, they probably will buy her. That is it. That is the kind of selling point Internet co. has. Of course for Gumi, they couldn't rip off Ranka Lee, who Megumi Nakajima also voiced, so they used her as a base idea. Which is why at first, everyone who saw Gumi made the connection to Ranka. It's the same selling point they have for Lily, but because there are existing vocaloids with the black&yellow color scheme, people are making that connection first.
Lily's design's been done, so there's really no point in wondering what could have been (well, that's what I think anyways.) PV artists are going to change things and so at some point, they'll even change her color scheme (which is really the only major thing I see connecting her to Neru, who doesn't even have the same eye color...)
I will admit there are certain colors that are still "useable" for an "original" Vocaloid, but the basic ones have been taken. Keep in mind the design has to stay "sellable," which is what really stunts "originality" in a design. There is only so much you can do design-wise or color-scheme-wise before you can make vague, or obvious, connections between the existing Vocaloids and the new ones.
Which kinda was the point I was trying to make.
Lily wasn't even related to Rin and Len when she was designed (if she was designed before them at all,) let alone Neru, who was invented before the twins. Saying one is a rip-off or is "less original" than another is (IMO) pointless. Even without a color scheme, it should be pretty easy to distinguish them. D:
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lunarslimelunarslime Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:22 am
Alysoun RavenStrife Alysoun @Tiryn: I WILL NOT BE SILENCED.
-arms self with a fire extinguisher- You should hush because you sound like a complete idiot nor does it even sound like you're even listening to what we're saying and wasting our time even trying to reason with you. My response to Tiryn was a joke... D: I'm sorry if it wasn't obvious enough.
My apologies also for not making sense. I am pretty bad at wording things. @_@
Ok, a Vocaloid's design is purely meant to market that Vocaloid. Yuri Masuda voiced Lily, and she conveniently had an anime-stlye version that already existed. That design right there is what is used as her box art, because if someone savvy in Japanese music saw Lily, they would make the connection to Yuri Masuda, her voice actor, and have a good idea of what she sounds like. If they are looking for that kind of voice, they probably will buy her. That is it. That is the kind of selling point Internet co. has. Of course for Gumi, they couldn't rip off Ranka Lee, who Megumi Nakajima also voiced, so they used her as a base idea. Which is why at first, everyone who saw Gumi made the connection to Ranka. It's the same selling point they have for Lily, but because there are existing vocaloids with the black&yellow color scheme, people are making that connection first.
Lily's design's been done, so there's really no point in wondering what could have been (well, that's what I think anyways.) PV artists are going to change things and so at some point, they'll even change her color scheme (which is really the only major thing I see connecting her to Neru, who doesn't even have the same eye color...)
I will admit there are certain colors that are still "useable" for an "original" Vocaloid, but the basic ones have been taken. Keep in mind the design has to stay "sellable," which is what really stunts "originality" in a design. There is only so much you can do design-wise or color-scheme-wise before you can make vague, or obvious, connections between the existing Vocaloids and the new ones.
Which kinda was the point I was trying to make.
Lily wasn't even related to Rin and Len when she was designed (if she was designed before them at all,) let alone Neru, who was invented before the twins. Saying one is a rip-off or is "less original" than another is (IMO) pointless. Even without a color scheme, it should be pretty easy to distinguish them. D: Cool story! Now are you trolling by trying to make everyone repeat themselves? Or are you just dumb and not paying attention? Just in case you're not trolling, here's a good list of some similarities with Neru and Lily Long Blonde hair, same bangs(Lily's is just a TAD longer), thigh high boots, small skimpy skirt, something wrapped around their left thigh, and black and yellow is their color. Again, only thing original about Lily is her top and if she was never released they had plenty of time to work on her design weather they were aiming for a sellable product or not.
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:20 pm
I try being civil and you call me a troll? X.x
Neru isn't even official, unless you actually take into account that Crypton adopted her. She's a popular troll (Irony?) Vocaloid who has more of a "purpose" in the sense she represents something about the fanbase. Same with Haku.
I still don't see what's wrong with Lily being yellow and black. It's a bold color scheme that attracts attention, hence why you see it not just in Rin, Len, or Neru, but a few other Utaus and fanloids.
Color scheme is part of design (which Yuri Masuda had before she was a Vocaloid...)
You do realize I'm repeating myself as well? You could say I'm trolling myself as much as I am you... even though I'm not even trying to troll but I am probably trolling myself harder.
Nitty-gritty differences you probably won't even read:
- Neru's hair is tied up
- Lily has blue eyes
- Neru's top is a lighter gray
- Tops aren't even the same style
- Neru has a yellow tie
- Neru has sleeves
- Lily has prominent heels
- Boots are a different style
- Boots also have yellow stripes on them
- Lily has cords all over her
- Different colored skirt
- Different styled skirt
- CD on Lily's cord belt
- Neru wears shorts under her skirt
- Lily has her own voicebank
Maybe I'm just being over-observant, but I see more than enough differences for me to tell them apart, even with their similarities. I'm pretty sure that, by copyright standards, there are enough differences for one to be considered "not a rip-off" of the other.
And since you're hounding on the Neru point, Kei didn't even design Neru, so why are you saying he has no originality? :/
I can see Rio's hair as an exception, but this isn't even about Rio, if Kei's design is even the official design.
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lunarslimelunarslime Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:44 pm
Ok you truly aren't trolling because from the sound of it you don't know what a troll is. Either that or you're doing a good job to cover it up.
And if you aren't trolling your stupid because you aren't listening and your pointing out differences in more ways than I did.
I'm not talking about differences in detail I'm talking about differences in shape and style. You could tell me the difference in what frabric their clothes are made of and it still doesn't have anything with what I'm talking about. . . Also I already pointed out her top was different and her hair was down and different eye color. Other than that they look exactly the same.
As for color it matters because each of them have their own color as their own symbol. Along with objects as their symbol and Neru is an official character, she's just an utau which aren't Vocaloid characters. She has her own Voice along with Teto and most of the other Utau characters are failures or incomplete and fanloids don't count because they aren't real characters.
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:27 pm
RavenStrife Ok you truly aren't trolling because from the sound of it you don't know what a troll is. Either that or you're doing a good job to cover it up. I know the definition of trolling D: But I'm in no way trying to do it on purpose. RavenStrife And if you aren't trolling your stupid because you aren't listening and your pointing out differences in more ways than I did. Or we simply aren't understanding what the other's trying to point out. I am guilty of this much, at least. RavenStrife I'm not talking about differences in detail I'm talking about differences in shape and style. You could tell me the difference in what frabric their clothes are made of and it still doesn't have anything with what I'm talking about. . . Also I already pointed out her top was different and her hair was down and different eye color. Other than that they look exactly the same. "Keep in mind the design has to stay "sellable," which is what really stunts "originality" in a design. There is only so much you can do design-wise or color-scheme-wise before you can make vague, or obvious, connections between the existing Vocaloids and the new ones."
In case you didn't already read that D:
There have been a lot more Vocaloids now released than before, some of which have a fullbody design. If you were around for Gumi's release, you'd remember how everyone said the design was stupid and unoriginal because it was a Ranka Lee ripoff. Well, it's been a year and now no one cares. People still make original songs for the Ranka Lee ripoff with a nice voice.
I am predicting the same for Lily. RavenStrife As for color it matters because each of them have their own color as their own symbol. Along with objects as their symbol and Neru is an official character, she's just an utau which aren't Vocaloid characters. She has her own Voice along with Teto and most of the other Utau characters are failures or incomplete and fanloids don't count because they aren't real characters. This is where I stop and facepalm.
Each Vocaloid having their own color is not at all a necessity. Preference? Certainly. However it's not the true purpose of a design. And even then, people are going to use different hues of yellow for Lily, like how people use orange for Rin when she's in a Talkloid segment where Len is also present.
I don't even recall Neru being in a Talkloid video, so don't say "LILY IS STEALING NERU'S COLOR PLACEMENT." Again the caps means I'm only saying it jokingly. (/o Ao)/ Outside of Youtube, Project Diva, MMD, and Owata-P, no one on Nico seriously uses her. The only reason I saw her again today was because (like you kinda said) in the Daily Rankings, someone made a 4Koma video with Rin, Len and Lily, and Neru was looking at her pissed-like from behind a corner.
Neru isn't an Utau either. An Utau has their own voicebank, and run on the freeware program "Utau." She's technically a fanmade, or a "fanloid," and is made using either a modified Miku or Rin.
Teto and her "sisters" belong to a troll Utau group called VIPPERLOIDS [or VIPPALOIDS] who pretend to be Vocaloids. Then it's revealed they're not, and everyone has a laugh and starts using their voice like a normal Utau. I must emphasize the Utau part.
Would you like sources as well? This is me, joking, again.
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lunarslimelunarslime Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:54 pm
MyGOD-P uses Neru, silly! Search Marionette Beats Break. =_= He fuses Miku and Rin's voices.
Listen, I think design discussion should be dropped. Like I said before, the design is for PV's to give songs some extra eye-candy. And they change the hair/clothing/other in songs all the time. No point pointing out differences if they will disappear in PV's with made-up characters. Hachi's works can prove that most of the time, and so can DECO*27's Gumi PV's (Yowamushi MontBlanc and Mozaik Role). And if you listen to the producer, mayuko, he just used LILY's eyes only for a very beautiful LILY song, and Machigeriita-P used LILY, and there was no image of LILY that I saw in the image.
And Megumi Nakajima voiced Ranka Lee and GUMI, and since the voice of GUMI came out similar to Ranka/Megumi, giving her a similar Ranka design was a good idea, and the outfit gave her some originality. Internet Co. just decided to use KEI for a design, and with him having designed a Vocaloid for almost every Japanses company now (3 for Crypton, 1 for Internet Co., and 1 for AH-Software (don't like this HK-based one yet)), he's running low on ideas, and with this having been done for the CD, anim.o.v.e., Yuri would have had a say on the design, and she must know Vocaloid if she agreed to voice a Vocaloid for the God of Vocaloid-makers, Internet Co.
If she saw similarities, she would have said something, perhaps.
/end sorta rant (which I probably babbled in)
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:26 pm
II C r a z y L o o p II MyGOD-P uses Neru, silly! Search Marionette Beats Break. =_= He fuses Miku and Rin's voices. Only once, and the video still falls under the MMD category. D:
I say Owata-P because s/he has used Neru several times, and continues to do so.
I do agree with most of your post though.
(I myself said some of the things you did already) @.@
AND IMO mayuko's Lily song was bad on my ears o.x Which is why I'm waiting for the actual version of her to go on sale, so people can (FINALLY) change the voice configuration.
Also, there's no set-in-stone evidence that Rio is the new Vocaloid yet. AH said they were making a new Vocaloid at Sanrio's panel. People are assuming Kei's kittyler is the design, though, but I don't blame them.
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lunarslimelunarslime Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:44 pm
MyGOD-P prefers Haku, Owata-P prefers Neru. But MyGOD-P defeats the point of Voyakiloids (sp?), since they are supposed to sound terrible.
And mayuko's LILY technics are high, and most of his songs are quite high, but it adds a slightly eerie air to most songs; his KAITO technics have quite low vocals, however.
And I know that RIO might not. I hope not.
Now, I want DECO*27 or Hachi to use LILY for the LILY Song Competition. Both change the Vocaloids designs a lot in songs, and they would be amazing. 2 or 3 great producers have already joined. If DECO makes a Mozaik Role or Yowamushi Montblanc style song for LILY, there's my year made, and Hachi's PV making skills with his new tablet are amazing though I miss mouse-warrior-Hachi. D8
But since hachi just released a new GUMI/Miku song the other day, there might not be nothing from him, unless he was working on two projects at the same time. Fingers crossed he joins, however. The winner must get a copy of LILY or something.
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:36 pm
Details for the Lily contest.
I hope not for Rio too. D: Then again I don't even like the idea of a Hello Kitty-themed 'loid... ._.
I thought Hachi didn't make his own videos? ?_? I'm pretty sure it was a team of 2 people, but I don't pay that much attention, so I wouldn't know for certain.
Sigh.
I still like the song Machigerita made for Lily the most. Well, so far. The contest's not over yet.
*determined face*
scream
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lunarslimelunarslime Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:19 pm
Alysoun I thought Hachi didn't make his own videos? ?_? I'm pretty sure it was a team of 2 people, but I don't pay that much attention, so I wouldn't know for certain. Depends on which songs of his you're talking about. For example, clock lock works PV was a collab with Task and Utsushita (who are known for their fantastic wall painting videos, I suggest checking them out), but for ones such as Qualia, Lynne, the original Persona Alice PV, which don't have as much animation and mostly based on stills, Hachi did everything. Persona Alice was where Hachi got his "mouse warrior" name from anyway. xD
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:48 pm
Alysoun RavenStrife Ok you truly aren't trolling because from the sound of it you don't know what a troll is. Either that or you're doing a good job to cover it up. I know the definition of trolling D: But I'm in no way trying to do it on purpose. RavenStrife And if you aren't trolling your stupid because you aren't listening and your pointing out differences in more ways than I did. Or we simply aren't understanding what the other's trying to point out. I am guilty of this much, at least. RavenStrife I'm not talking about differences in detail I'm talking about differences in shape and style. You could tell me the difference in what frabric their clothes are made of and it still doesn't have anything with what I'm talking about. . . Also I already pointed out her top was different and her hair was down and different eye color. Other than that they look exactly the same. "Keep in mind the design has to stay "sellable," which is what really stunts "originality" in a design. There is only so much you can do design-wise or color-scheme-wise before you can make vague, or obvious, connections between the existing Vocaloids and the new ones."
In case you didn't already read that D:
There have been a lot more Vocaloids now released than before, some of which have a fullbody design. If you were around for Gumi's release, you'd remember how everyone said the design was stupid and unoriginal because it was a Ranka Lee ripoff. Well, it's been a year and now no one cares. People still make original songs for the Ranka Lee ripoff with a nice voice.
I am predicting the same for Lily. RavenStrife As for color it matters because each of them have their own color as their own symbol. Along with objects as their symbol and Neru is an official character, she's just an utau which aren't Vocaloid characters. She has her own Voice along with Teto and most of the other Utau characters are failures or incomplete and fanloids don't count because they aren't real characters. This is where I stop and facepalm.
Each Vocaloid having their own color is not at all a necessity. Preference? Certainly. However it's not the true purpose of a design. And even then, people are going to use different hues of yellow for Lily, like how people use orange for Rin when she's in a Talkloid segment where Len is also present.
I don't even recall Neru being in a Talkloid video, so don't say "LILY IS STEALING NERU'S COLOR PLACEMENT." Again the caps means I'm only saying it jokingly. (/o Ao)/ Outside of Youtube, Project Diva, MMD, and Owata-P, no one on Nico seriously uses her. The only reason I saw her again today was because (like you kinda said) in the Daily Rankings, someone made a 4Koma video with Rin, Len and Lily, and Neru was looking at her pissed-like from behind a corner.
Neru isn't an Utau either. An Utau has their own voicebank, and run on the freeware program "Utau." She's technically a fanmade, or a "fanloid," and is made using either a modified Miku or Rin.
Teto and her "sisters" belong to a troll Utau group called VIPPERLOIDS [or VIPPALOIDS] who pretend to be Vocaloids. Then it's revealed they're not, and everyone has a laugh and starts using their voice like a normal Utau. I must emphasize the Utau part.
Would you like sources as well? This is me, joking, again. 
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:46 am
Well, Hachi's new song, with GUMI and Miku (search for vgperson on YouTube for subs of it), it's said he did all the art with his new tablet and animated it also. 8D
So Hachi has music-making and animating/drawing skills.
And if I could make music, I would enter the LILY contest...if I knew more Japanese. D8
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:41 am
You call Alysoun a troll and then post a crappy jpg as a response? Lame. Anyways, if you're going to post annoying memes in response to other people's posts and not add anything to the discussion, you might as well leave. Bye, hope you enjoy the ban you wanted.
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