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 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:10 pm
PawzPrint gothic_black_rose PawzPrint VK Fox gothic_black_rose I'm just putting together everything that he said an adding a little to it. She pretty much nailed it. I've been doing a poor job of putting my thoughts together recently, and I apologize for that. My health isn't quite 100% right now and there's some stuff goin on. But that's what I'm trying to say. Nothing can pluck us from the hand of the Father if we are in His hands.
I feel you on the health thing right now too. I've got some....weird things going on.
Nothing? What about our own free will? If we want to walk away from God (a stupid thing to do but it happens), will God force us to stay with Him?
If you do that and become a stumbling block for others then he will take your life. Ezekiel 3:20 “If righteous people turn away from their righteous behavior and ignore the obstacles I put in their way, they will die." That way you won't cause them to backslide and also you will be in heaven anyways. So it all works out.
That being said, I'm bringing this back to the main topic of the thread. I believe that people who commit suicide go to hell. We've stated why we each believe what we believe and it's not a sin to believe what we do. However, it is something we must agree to disagree on as the Bible is not black and white on this area. With that said, I accept that you have different thoughts on this and I'm stepping away from this thread for a bit.I've enjoyed the debate. It's helped expand my thinking, and I appreciate that. I will work on this one some more in my private studies. I doubt He would force us to stay with Him. He never forced us to go to Him in the first place. I believe that Milton put it, using God as a character, "I made man sufficient to have stood but free to fall." I do not think that someone who is really and truly in His hand, and a part of the body of Christ, would ever choose to walk away from Him. How could we, when we've felt Him in our lives, seen His works, maybe even seen Him in dreams? The sheer joy of being a child of God is beyond any temporary pleasure of sin. I question whether or not someone who chooses to leave Him really knew Him in the first place.
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:52 pm
This brings up a question I had: If someone who does not believe in God is murdered, do they automatically go to Heaven? This may seem like a stupid question, but it also ties in with abortion. Technically, the fetus was created in sin and therefore sinful before even being born. Does that mean that killing the unborn child before they have had the chance to atone for their sins sends them to Hell?
Abortion is a very touchy subject to me, as someone very close to me had one. She feels awful about it and would have liked nothing more than to keep the child, but she knew she couldn't give the child the kind of life he deserved. She knows she made a stupid choice in getting pregnant and that by having an abortion she ruined her reputation, but does that really make her an awful person? A murderer still feels.
Besides, is it really our place to judge another human being? Isn't that for God to do? If God has forgiven someone of their sins then so should we. We should strive to be like Christ in our every action and word.
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:16 pm
What would lead someone to kill themselves....
Are you really walking with the LORD if you don't have enough faith to trust that God is going to help you even in your most desperate times?
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:01 am
Green_Fuu What would lead someone to kill themselves....
Are you really walking with the LORD if you don't have enough faith to trust that God is going to help you even in your most desperate times?
There's a Time to Laugh "Ephesians 2: 8-9"
pain is what drives a person to commit suicide. The ever burning desire to numb it all away and most think death is the ultimate escape.
From where I was when I was in my suicidal mess to where I am now in my walk with the Lord I would have to say: No, I really wasn't really walking with the Lord. I prayed, but mostly for vain things. I had accepted Jesus as my savior when I was 11 but even after that I still tried killing myself because I hurt so much and had no idea how to handle it and no one I thought I could turn to.
And a Time to Cry "Romans 5: 3-5"
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:57 am
I have a bit of a problem with suicide discussions.
The problem you encounter most is that, people like to discuss in rational, collected conversations why someone would think, or commit such an irrational action. Obviously someone committing suicide is beyond caring about any of the rational implications of their actions, and only cares about getting it all to end.
Unless you've been there, done that, you really can't have any idea what would drive someone to such an extreme.
As to the eternal implications of their actions, who really knows? According to the Bible, suicide is not what determines whether a person gains entrance into heaven. If you're unsaved and commit suicide, it's just skipping a bit of time on the path to Hell. However, that person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because they committed suicide. On the other hand, what if they're saved? The Bible teaches that from the moment we truly believe in Christ, we are guaranteed eternal life (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate a Christian from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins, and if a true Christian, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commits suicide, that would still be a sin covered by the blood of Christ.
Now, this does not mean suicide is a good thing, or should be condoned. It is in fact murder, and as such, a sin. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his/her own life. God has a plan for each of our lives, and suicide is not one of them.
@others in the thread:
I don't mean to nitpick, but there is already at least one thread on abortion, and eternal security, etc. so please try to stay on the topic of suicide and move other discussions to PMs or their respective threads.
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