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 Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:01 pm
Seority Cometh The Inquisitor In Christianity, there are only two 'supernatural' forces: God and The Satan/demons. Not trying to side with Sinner, but arnt you forgeting angels and us?
Angels are the messengers of God for the most part, while they could also do anything God tells them to do. We can communicate to God and him to us. Doesn't that make us supernatural too? Maybe not totally supernatural, but at least our souls. Thoese are supernatural too right?
I learned this from the book called "Don't Buy the Lie" by Mark Matlock (< he's cool!).
Um, I'm going to look over the book so this post maybe re-edited. Yeah... I think he's lumping angels in with God since they're God's agents.
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:46 pm
Ah. Ok.
What about humans then?
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:59 pm
Sinner But surely there must be some process by which supernatural events can originate from non-supernatural sources, probably thanks to the intervention of a supernatural power. I'm thinking something along the lines of Moses parting the Red Sea, you know? While that could certainly be interpreted as "Moses beckoning for God to part the Red Sea," it still demonstrates the possibility. What makes you assume that supernatural beings are the only source of supernatural events? Well, for the example you used, think of moses as a conduit of sorts for God's power. Not even that, Moses simply asked for God to do something for Isreal and God granted Moses' wish. Quote: It's fine and good to say that, but I haven't seen anything to back it up. There doesn't seem to be any reason why the terms "miracle" and "magic" can't both be applied to God's actions. Like I've already said, that is christian theology. I'm not saying that it coincides with the dictionary definition (which is religiously neutral) or with some other religions definition of the word. In short, God's people (the Jews and, later, the Christians) saw/were told of a supernatural phenomenom that was not of God. God the instructed them to not practice/condone such actions/occourences. It just so happened to be the word 'magic' that was used to describe the phenomenom. So, since 'magic' was used by God to talk about supernatural events that were not of Him, only the word miracle is applicable to supernatural events inspired by God out of the two.
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Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:12 pm
Seority Not trying to side with Sinner, but arnt you forgeting angels and us? Angels and humans have absolutely no supernatural power. What we are is merely mediums for the supernatural power of God or The Satan. This is shown, at best, in Jude 1:19 "But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"", As well as any instance of a human casting out demons, in which they always invoke the Name of God as their authority. Also, in Mark 6:7 (Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits.), it is Jesus who gives the authority over demons to the Twelve. Quote: Angels are the messengers of God for the most part, while they could also do anything God tells them to do. We can communicate to God and him to us. Doesn't that make us supernatural too? Maybe not totally supernatural, but at least our souls. Thoese are supernatural too right? I learned this from the book called " Don't Buy the Lie" by Mark Matlock (< he's cool!). Um, I'm going to look over the book so this post maybe re-edited. Yeah... Yes, our souls are, in a sense, 'supernatural' in that they are not of the physical world, however, I have not seen anything to suggest that the human soul has any sort of power away from God. Of course, it would not be suprising, since the angels have a fair bit of power themselves (though, they make it clear that they only act on the authorization of God).
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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 11:49 am
Cometh The Inquisitor Like I've already said, that is christian theology. I'm not saying that it coincides with the dictionary definition (which is religiously neutral) or with some other religions definition of the word. In short, God's people (the Jews and, later, the Christians) saw/were told of a supernatural phenomenom that was not of God. God the instructed them to not practice/condone such actions/occourences. It just so happened to be the word 'magic' that was used to describe the phenomenom. So, since 'magic' was used by God to talk about supernatural events that were not of Him, only the word miracle is applicable to supernatural events inspired by God out of the two. Once again, it's fine and good to say that, but where's your support?
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:10 am
Yeah, I'm back. And I've got some more information defending maick, and it includes scientific facts. When were are born, and all through almost everybody on Earth, we don't use most of our brain. Scientists are pretty sure that one part of our brains is the part where psychic powers and magick come from. They beleive that when we are born, the reason they have found that part of the brain used so little because, as we grow up, we are told that magick and psychic powers are either evil or not real, so we grow away from this part of our brain. It is possible, however, to use that part of our brain, so that's the closest scientists have gotten to whatever that part of the brain may do.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:27 pm
Edward McShrimpy Yeah, I'm back. And I've got some more information defending maick, and it includes scientific facts. When were are born, and all through almost everybody on Earth, we don't use most of our brain. Scientists are pretty sure that one part of our brains is the part where psychic powers and magick come from. They beleive that when we are born, the reason they have found that part of the brain used so little because, as we grow up, we are told that magick and psychic powers are either evil or not real, so we grow away from this part of our brain. It is possible, however, to use that part of our brain, so that's the closest scientists have gotten to whatever that part of the brain may do. That 85% of our brains that we don't consciously use goes towards controlling breathing, beating our hearts and other such important things. Sorry bud, but if you want telekenises from your brain you might have to get used to living without air.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:34 pm
Sinner Once again, it's fine and good to say that, but where's your support? The Bible, mostly. The rest I just came to the conclusion with the knowledge I already have. What I'm arguing for is a theory and I'm well aware the majority of my arguement is based of me putting what I see as two and two together to get four. I am simply argueing for, what I see now as, the most possible arguement.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:44 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Edward McShrimpy I am not in this guild. But I would like to say something about magick. I am wiccan. And I would like to ask you all how magick can be the work of the devil if Wiccans do not even have a devil in their religion? I probably won't be back to this guild, so please pm me if you think I am wrong or wish to debate this fact. I would also like to say that Wiccans rely heavily on nature and natural things. They like animals and when doing something even as simple as taking a stick from a tree they must say please and thank you. And if your God does not like magick and thinks it is wrong, why is it still on Earth? Why is their pain and suffering? Why do people die, and why aren't people happy all the time? Why do people go crazy? Please explain that to me in the pm. first off, magic is not spelt with a k. don't be a fluff-bunny. secondly, the most basic tenants of any religion is that it is correct. The basic tenants of christianity is that christianity is correct, the basic tenants of wicca is that it is correct. However, when two totally opposing viewpoints are brought together, only one can possible be correct. Now, since I am a christian, I believe that christianity is correct. Now, regardless of what you believe about the devil, he exists. Otherwise, my religion would be wrong and there is no point to arguing the wrong thing. now, all magic comes from sources other than God. That is basically what delineates magic from miracles. Now, all things not God are either The Satan (the devil) or one of his minions (demons). Therefore, regardless of how 'white' your magic is, it is still of demonic origen. Quote: And if your God does not like magick and thinks it is wrong, why is it still on Earth? Because God allows us free will. Quote: Why is their pain and suffering? see the first answer. Quote: Why do people die, and why aren't people happy all the time? Well, I personally think that physical death has always been around, but spritual death came from The Fall. Why do people go crazy? Well, see Genesis 6:1-3 for this.
Please explain that to me in the pm.
done, but I posted this anyways just in case you want to have a public discussion.
You need to calm down. What you're saying, would be just as offensive to you if someone of another religion came up to you and said that Christianity is complete bull. And I will state that in his religion, Magick does end with a K. It's in it's own nature. Leave him be about his beliefs. Jebus, if my friend were here, she'd flip about what you said. You believe what you will, and he'll believe what he will. It's that easy. To him, he's doing the right thing. To you it may be wrong or offensive, but that's you in a totally different religion than he is.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:48 pm
Sinner Edward McShrimpy Magick is spelt with a k. Without it, it would be referring to stage magic, or slight-of-hand. And if white magick is of a demonic origen, then why would Satan let us use it to destroy demons? And if it is of (your) that magick comes from the devil, why are people punished by karma if magick is not either white or grey (Not helping or destructive)? And if Wiccans don't have a devil, how can it be from a devil? We do have demons, although it's not part of the religion. There are demons, that I don't doubt. But a ruler of demons? Their are none in wicca. That's a good one. I almost fell for it for a second there.
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:59 pm
I am horribly sorry if this sounds rude, as it isn't meant to, but I am downright discusted with some of the members of this guild. Why on Earth do you think you have to badmouth his religion? Do you think God placed you all where you are so you can act like a bunch of ametures? He has HIS own religion to follow and believe as do you. I know nobody's perfect, but you can do your best to be nice at the very least. AND respect the opinions of others. Why do you think that God created people like Martin Luther King(and Jr.), Harriet Tubman, Abe Lincoln, and most of all (in your eyes), Jesus Christ? So we could get credit for learning their names in Social Studies? No. They were GIVEN to us to teach man, to train man, and to help man. They've given us freedom of choice, speach, and RELIGION. He may believe what he wants and he doesn't need you quoting and correcting him every step of the way. Could you please just leave him be?
With ALL due respect...
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Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:14 am
Thank you W!nd R!der. I agree with that. So I may just stop debating here. Christians have their beleifs, and I have mine. I can't change their views, and they can't change mine.
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Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:18 am
Edward McShrimpy Thank you W!nd R!der. I agree with that. So I may just stop debating here. Christians have their beleifs, and I have mine. I can't change their views, and they can't change mine.
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:27 pm
I'm quite calm. Shoot, I'd even say that I'm enjoying this. Quote: And I will state that in his religion, Magick does end with a K. No, not really. For more on this bit, read here. Quote: Jebus, if my friend were here, she'd flip about what you said. Well than invite her forth. I will be ready and willing to provide facts and logical proof to back up my claims. Quote: You believe what you will, and he'll believe what he will. It's that easy. To him, he's doing the right thing. To you it may be wrong or offensive, but that's you in a totally different religion than he is. Yes. This I realize. Mr. McShrimpy, on the other hand, has decided that we wants to partake of our discussion and to refute our claims. I, of course, realized the inherent stupidity of this (as we are argueing from two completely different religions, and as such, world-views), but I was having quite a bit of fun debating with him, so I didn't point it out.
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Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:40 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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