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If we can choose to follow God, then what use do we have for the Holy Ghost, much less Jesus? It sounds like you are familiar with, if not a student of, Calvin. Here he agrees with the Church when he speaks of Total Depravity. I am sure you are familiar with all the descriptions in the Bible about humans and how they are "dead in their sins". We can not choose God, we are dead men! The only reason we have an idea of a "choice" for God is because He has chosen us first. That's why decision theology is moot. We must first be made alive in Christ before we even think of siding with God. Human nature is in rebellion against the Kingdom, we are traitors. The Holy Spirit calls us by the Gospel, enlightens us with his gifts (word and sacraments), and sanctifies and keeps us in the one true faith. Can we keep God's commandments? Can we follow God's law? Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, we will not enter heaven. Jesus was the only one who could follow God's law and it is Him that God has given His blessings to.


Yes, but how do we know it's time to go unless he reveals Himself to us? We hear God's voice everyday we read His word and we are not raptured then.


The Church has always believed that it is part of the body of Christ for it hears His word and eats and drinks His flesh and blood. If you remove the body, the head does not remain. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (Nicene creed) and calls, gathers, enlightens and sactifies the whole Church on earth (Apostle's creed, meaning of second article). The bride can not be separated from her Bridegroom. So, if the Church (all believers) are taken from the earth, it means that no one else can be saved because no one can come to the Father except through the Son and unless that person has been called by the Gospel (faith comes through hearing) he will not see eternal life. IN THAT LIGHT, God tells us to pray for our worthiness on the last day and He has promised to work His good work in us untill the last day. So the fact that the Holy Spirit will be there during the tribulation, means that believers will still be there as well.


Don't get me wrong. I don't think it is a question of "steeped", it is a question of new ideas. The reason I said this is because your idea, the "rapture", is new, having come onto the scene in the 1800's or so, right? That makes your position a bit more difficult and leaves you with more of the burden of proof and a pre-supposition. I could be way off on this point so please correct me.

Romans 5: 1-11
“1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation works patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope makes not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.”

Many christians in several nations that are being persecuted today, as will christians in America; soon there will be a seperation of the sheep and the goats in the church. So get to know His voice sheep and be ready for trials and tribulation. 2010 will be the year of testing of our faith.

Any personal beliefs?