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 Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:34 pm
quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy).
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:40 pm
rmcdra quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy). Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:52 pm
Nebulance rmcdra quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy). Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject.
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:58 pm
rmcdra Nebulance rmcdra quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy). Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:06 am
Mei tsuki7 rmcdra Nebulance rmcdra quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy). Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:08 am
rmcdra Nebulance rmcdra quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy). Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Some scholars (Peter Brown, to name one) also think he didn't write Ephesians, with its description of marriage as a holy representation of Jesus and the Church. Not that I agree with them, but it is definitely a controversy out there.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:12 am
Nebulance Mei tsuki7 rmcdra Nebulance rmcdra quietstorm 2 After reading the above I'm somewhat confused about the thing that took place in Sodom and Gomorrah, and how GOD could turn against something he approves of? That would make him a liar would'nt it? Since he is GOD it was not necessary to make them male and female, he had a choice, didn't he? The design was for a purpose and I was under the impression that our purpose on this earth as his creation was to please GOD. Those without his spirit possibly can not understand that, and that is understandable. It's hard to express what we don't possess. And you are absolutely correct; "(that we should acknowledge that from time to time we are, in fact, incorrect). I say we should pray for knowledge and not lean unto our own understanding; thats why the world is in such bad shape now. Keep up the hard work and research. May GOD bless and keep you. From what I understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is identical to a story in Judges (you'll have to give me some time if you would like me to find the exact passage). The passage in Judges is not mentioned because the violence depicted in this story is rather graphic. The sin expressed though in both these stories is inhospitality toward strangers. God has not lied because we are called to multiply but we are under a new covenant. Judaism is not only a religion but a race of people. The Jews are not called to convert people to YHVH. So multiplying by reproduction is how you make new Jews. Christianity is a religion that does not require nationality. We "multiply" by making new disciples of Christ. The support for this view is in the fact that Paul advocated celibacy (not for marriage, just pure and "simple" celibacy). Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:17 am
Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 rmcdra Nebulance Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:22 am
Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 rmcdra Nebulance Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching. ANOTHER reason why I abandoned Christianity. Women are greater spiritual beings than men in Judaism.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:22 am
Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 rmcdra Nebulance Paul did advocate celibacy, but he made very clear that marriage was a good thing, as well. He said that some Christians are called and gifted to celibacy but that it was also fine to marry. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea... wink True but he did make it out that marriage was to be a last resort if you could not remain celibate according to 1 and 2 Corinthians. Now if you accept 1 and 2 Timothy as being actual written by Paul (There is scholarly evidence that shows that he didn't. Elaine Pagals to name one such scholar and even various scholars within the United Methodist Church and the Anglican Church recognize this too) then there is scriptural justification for marriage being okay and not just a last resort if you can't do such. Otherwise since various Church Traditions accept 1 and 2 Timothy as part of Canon, then it would be more correct to say that by Church Tradition teaches Paul says marriage is A-OK rather than just a fallback. Just wanted to share some history on the subject. Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching. Spiritual rank? WTF do you mean by that?
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:24 am
In Medias Res IV Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching. ANOTHER reason why I abandoned Christianity. Women are greater spiritual beings than men in Judaism. Wow, that's certainly not the impression I had.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:26 am
Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching. Spiritual rank? WTF do you mean by that? Women may not be elders in the Church, pass judgment on prophecies, or be head of the household, all depicted as spiritual duties of men in the New Testament. Women have spiritual duties that include raising their children and mentoring other Christians.
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:28 am
Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching. Spiritual rank? WTF do you mean by that? Women may not be elders in the Church, pass judgment on prophecies, or be head of the household, all depicted as spiritual duties of men in the New Testament. Women have spiritual duties that include raising their children and mentoring of other Christians. Both man and woman were created in the image of G-d. According to most Jewish scholars, "man" was created in Gen. 1:27 with dual gender, and was later separated into male and female. According to traditional Judaism, women are endowed with a greater degree of "binah" (intuition, understanding, intelligence) than men. The rabbis inferred this from the fact that woman was "built" (Gen. 2:22) rather than "formed" (Gen. 2:7), and the Hebrew root of "build" has the same consonants as the word "binah." It has been said that the matriarchs (Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah) were superior to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) in prophecy. Women did not participate in the idolatry regarding the Golden Calf. See Rosh Chodesh below. Some traditional sources suggest that women are closer to G-d's ideal than men. Women have held positions of respect in Judaism since biblical times. Miriam is considered one of the liberators of the Children of Israel, along with her brothers Moses and Aaron. One of the Judges (Deborah) was a woman. Seven of the 55 prophets of the Bible were women (they are included in the list of biblical prophets). The Ten Commandments require respect for both mother and father. Note that the father comes first in Ex. 20:12, but the mother comes first in Lev. 19:3, and many traditional sources point out that this reversal is intended to show that both parents are equally entitled to honor and reverence. http://www.jewfaq.org/women.htm
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:30 am
I don't see how you say that I'm picking and choosing. I am agreeing that marriage is A-OK but I am recognizing that it a teaching of Tradition and current Scripture that supports this rather than Paul. Why does this seem to upset you? It's still part of Christianity. So what if Paul didn't say it, it's still inspired scripture?
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:30 am
Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Nebulance Mei tsuki7 Paul also says that women are beneath men. I don't believe or like Paul. Good for you... and if you reject Paul's writings, you certainly will have a much easier time justifying homosexual activity. wink Let me put it this way. I believe you either accept all of a persons writings or none of them. Since I do not believe in any way that women are below men I do not believe in any of Pauls writings. Also if you believe in Pauls writings you must believe that women are inferior unless you pick and choose what to believe in the bible and not. Inferior in spiritual rank, not in value, intelligence, etc; but yes, I don't pick and choose not to believe that teaching. Spiritual rank? WTF do you mean by that? Women may not be elders in the Church, pass judgment on prophecies, or be head of the household, all depicted as spiritual duties of men in the New Testament. Women have spiritual duties that include raising their children and mentoring other Christians. 1 Timothy 2:11 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. She shall have no authority over a man." That goes way beyond what you are saying. Also a lot of churches break that first one. Also what about single mothers? There shouldn't be any single mothers or women living on their own?
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