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 Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:19 am
Captain Amaranth Really, I don't think steampunk should really end in '-punk'. As whilst the term was first attached to literary works stemming from cyberpunk, steampunk itself is not that. That is to say, not necessarily Punk, nor even a work of literature - steam-powered anachronisms being instead a concept, from which we get what-we-now-call-steampunk (and indeed could be said to stem from the Victorian Era itself). That said, steampunk is as good a name as any (so long as we don't forget the 'Punk' is purely optional); and frankly I think it sounds 'right'. Note: I am not saying Steampunk does not entail certain elements common to both it and Punk; but the same could be said of many things which we don't call 'punk' at all.I agree with that too. Punk attached to it really is a misnomer derived of the CyberPunk concept. Still, it IS non-conformist. This is not 'the norm' of societal behavior. And any non-conformist genre wanting to conform to something.. it's got that lovely vinegar kick of irony I can appreciate. smile
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:53 pm
Really, I combine those 2. Clockworks and steam were both around in the Victorian era, were they not?
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:18 pm
Hm, this thread has been quite informative. I suppose God of War would be considered clockpunk, then? I had been trying to think of what to call it, and the only thing I came up with was "Humanpunk," since steampunk gadgets run on steam, and all the machines in GOW run on... well, Kratos. XD
What are "Sandalpunk" and "stonepunk," though?
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:10 pm
The Iron Magus I suppose God of War would be considered clockpunk, then?
I think it may be more sandalpunk actually. The captain knows more about that kind of thing then I, I'm afraid.
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:35 pm
Dixie Dellamorto The Iron Magus I suppose God of War would be considered clockpunk, then? Sandalpunk, indeed. Unless you want to call it "Kratospunk," haha. He does wear sandals, though... or are they more like open-toe boots? I never really checked. But remember, Clockpunk doesn't mean "Gears, everhwere!" it just means the machines are powered by wound-up coils and falling weights and such. Also, I'm quickly becoming tired of the Victorian era. Steampunk needs more emphasis on the anachronism part, I say. Bring on the Steampunk 20xx!
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:41 pm
I've only recently come across the term "clockpunk", so I appreciate the interpretations here, though I realize some of you have posted them in other threads. Being new here though, this was one of the first places I've checked so far. Thanks!
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:39 am
Amythyst Kimball Really, I combine those 2. Clockworks and steam were both around in the Victorian era, were they not? Yes, but clockpunk is mostly earlier eras, where there was no steam power.
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:03 am
Oh, so the "punk" part used to bug me, because I know it's just borrowed from cyberpunk, etc. and also I kept thinking "but it has nothing to do with PUNK MUSIC!!!"
But I have been reading about the "punk sub-culture" in a lot of... okay redface Wikipedia articles and this phrase keeps coming up again and again: DIY Ethic and while we may have little to do with cyberpunk and nothing to do with 80's punkbands we are ALL about DIY, are we NOT?! The sewing costumes, modding computers into beautiful antique thingies, making cool jewelry with cogs... if DIY=punk I am alright with PUNK.
"In the punk subculture, the DIY ethic is tied to punk ideology and anticonsumerism, as a rejection of the need to purchase items or use existing systems or processes."
"The DIY punk ethic also applies to everyday living, such as learning bicycle repair rather than taking a bike to a mechanic's shop, sewing/repairing/modifying clothing rather than buying new clothes, starting vegetable gardens, and reclaiming recyclable products by dumpster diving. Some educators also engage in DIY teaching techniques, sometimes referred to as Edupunk" <---Hello, who doesn't love tutorials on YouTube?
"Sites like Newgrounds and DeviantArt allow users to post their art and receive community critique, while Instructables allows DIYers to exhibit their works and be compensated in the form of tips. The same is also true of the music industry where artists can use modern technology and the internet to be as self-sufficient as possible meaning they can share their wares online using the same computer used to record with, again, independently of commercial funding."
Anyway, that is why I am totally okay with the "punk" label now. The Steam one I was alright with already. Clock, too. I think both of those probably fit in my particular anachronistic adoration (While Victorian is my favorite, I also love the 1700's too, I guess.). But Punk won't bug me anymore and I won't think it means I need to have an orange mohawk.
blaugh
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:13 am
I was going to add a classical potato potato here, but then I realised that in type, it just looks like I wrote potato twice. lol. X3
(Po-tay-tow, Po-tat-o)
Lol.
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Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:21 am
Xeigrich Dixie Dellamorto The Iron Magus I suppose God of War would be considered clockpunk, then? Sandalpunk, indeed. Unless you want to call it "Kratospunk," haha. He does wear sandals, though... or are they more like open-toe boots? I never really checked. But remember, Clockpunk doesn't mean "Gears, everhwere!" it just means the machines are powered by wound-up coils and falling weights and such. Also, I'm quickly becoming tired of the Victorian era. Steampunk needs more emphasis on the anachronism part, I say. Bring on the Steampunk 20xx!
Indeed, well said. Yet...Kratospunk? I know I thought it myself, but still. Egad...that is one horrid little bit of imagining we both seem to have.
I must concur, however. I have never seen a need for steampunk to stop with the Victorian era. If steam technology were to become that advanced, it stands to reason that it would continue beyond its historical limitations. Of course, in my own fiction, I hold that a major petrol explosion and the subsequent fire from the same led to research into internal combustion being outlawed...but I digress.
I hold that advanced clockwork would be present in any setting with advanced steam machines. It is certainly present today, if only on a small scale. For example, I allow for self winding clockworks in a form of "body motion" technology for various small devices that would be too compact for steam components. I can allow for clockwork without steam, but the reverse seems to me far too improbable. If for no other reason, I feel it would fly in the face of the enthusiastic spirit of invention present in almost all steampunk.
Now, someone brought up magic, and I just thought I should add my twopence on that subject as well. To me magic in steampunk is a bit of a tricky question. Since magic is not in itself science fiction, but fantasy, steampunk with magic is at best a form of fantasy based off an alternate history. A sort of "double decker fiction sandwich" if you'll forgive the positively horrid analogy. Further, I have found that most scientific types have little patience for magic and mysticism. To me, a setting that takes place in an era of scientific discovery, as steampunk typically does, has little place for magic. I imagine to myself that it would be highly uncommon at best. So, when I do steampunk in d20, I tend to limit magic rather harshly, ruling that only scattered bits of "old magic" have survived the age of reason (typically, this means the only caster is the Archivist).
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:51 pm
I'd like to point out on the whole DIY Ethic thing, that it's not so much an ethic with steampunk enthusiasts, it's a necessity.
Steampunk is not nearly popular or mainstream enough to have mass produced merchandise available all over the place (like goth, emo, etc.), and if you want something bad enough, but you can't buy it, you'll have to make it! I'm sure that a lot of us, especially the ones who are lazy or aren't inclined to arts & crafts, would rather just buy the stuff if we could. I'm not saying we'd all throw our sewing kits and hot glue guns out the window, but convenience often outweighs authenticity and as such is more likely to prevail. Until such a day when steampunk has been watered down and is around every corner, we have to create from scratch and adapt existing things in order to have what we want (and personally, I'm happy with it like that).
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:18 am
Xeigrich I'd like to point out on the whole DIY Ethic thing, that it's not so much an ethic with steampunk enthusiasts, it's a necessity. Steampunk is not nearly popular or mainstream enough to have mass produced merchandise available all over the place (like goth, emo, etc.), and if you want something bad enough, but you can't buy it, you'll have to make it! I'm sure that a lot of us, especially the ones who are lazy or aren't inclined to arts & crafts, would rather just buy the stuff if we could. I'm not saying we'd all throw our sewing kits and hot glue guns out the window, but convenience often outweighs authenticity and as such is more likely to prevail. Until such a day when steampunk has been watered down and is around every corner, we have to create from scratch and adapt existing things in order to have what we want (and personally, I'm happy with it like that). Completely agree. That's one thing that really drew me into steampunk. That and the romantic nature.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:34 am
Xander_Telmis I seriously have never heard of clockpunk. I always considered everything that had the same feel as steampunk to be steampunk. Agree. I guess someone is trying to make steampunk look more interesting, but the fact is that as long as this stays as a visual genre/style, it cant or wont appeal much to the common folk. Have you listened a steampunk band? i havent. Yes, i do know there are a few bands that claim to be steampunk, but the truth is they only toy with the visual elements, like in visual rock from japan, while playing industrial rock, or goth, or metal, without using sounds (instruments) and elements that would be proper to the victorian era, and therefore cant "sound" steampunk. To me, a "steampunk sound" would be mixing a string quartet with industrial rock elements. Or punk and folk, but with industrial (post industrial maybe)... but you already get my point. Thats why i wont even mention those mediocre bands (mediocre in sound. They do look cool). Anyway, "clockpunk" sounds lame. Steampunk is called that way not because everything has to do with steam, but because steam is kind of a signature to victorian era, cos the train changed everything, and the coal fueled big old factories. Doesnt matter if you add magic or not to the mix, because steampunk is simple: moderm gadgets and elements from a future adapted to the possibilities of, and around victorian era. To that, you can add magic, or not. add a retrofuturistic theme, or not. A dystopian scenario, or not. Vampires, tolkienesque races, or just a realistic aproach in an alernate space of time, of what would happen if someone whould have made a... pc powered by mice. lol. Steampunk is old stuff, is just that in recent years has become a bit mainstream. Back to The Future 3 has steampunk elements. In the other hand, Julius Verne books werent really steampunk, but sci-fi/futurist, cos he wrote his stuff around that era.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:45 am
Also, for all those "supossed sub-genres" suporters, here is an simple exmaple of why this sub-genres cant be taken seriously:
"Dieselpunk"
The term, coined by game designers Lewis Pollak and Dan Ross, was used to help market said game.
As you can see, they only used that name to help sell a game, but there isnt something more serious thinking involved, and therefore cant be taken as "official sub-genre". Retrofuturist is a valid genre, as it happened as a social phenomenon around 1930s-1960s, in architecture, and literature mostly, but also in painting and design. Steampunk can make the jump, only if people try to explore it before making poorly justified subgenres.
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