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 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:07 pm
I.Am Mistress DragonFlame Mcphee That's an opinion that it's not a child. So if it's my opinion an 80-year-old is a child, then it's correct? You just proved his point: Your opinion that it's not a child until it's born is just that; Your opinion. So don't state it as fact. I was stating that before it's a child, it's a toddler, and before then a baby. It's like a teenager, you have to be a certain age to reach 'child' level. Now, what I and every prolifer people debate, is when it becomes a baby.
Quote: Quote: What about the father's rights? Does this man get no right to a child that is half his? His genetics are in that child, and if he wants to keep it, she doesn't have a right to destroy it. To quote someone else in this thread, (who I can't remeber at this time. I think it was Grip of Death, or something) "The father does not have an absolute right to procreate." It is NOT a right to have an offspring, so nothing of his has been violated. Oh, and the mother does? The mother has all the rights, and the father doesn't? The mother has the choice whether she wants a child or not. The father SHOULD have the choice to pay child support if he doesn't want a child and the mother does, but until that law is changed, we can only b***h about it.Quote: Quote: I say again, if I bought something with someone, and we split the money, and it was equally ours, but you kept it in your house, would you have the right to destroy it? Well, if you can take it out of my house this very instant, then no. But, I can remove the stupid thing from my house with, or without you consent because it's my house first and formost. Ah, but the fetus isn't just removed from the womb. It's destroyed in the womb, and then disposed of outside the womb. Do you have the right to destroy that shared item, and then bury it somewhere? If I lived in a 7 story appartment, and on the topmost foor, the only way to get rid of said.... plant, or whatever, is out the window. If I very damn well want it out, I'll just toss it without having to pay for the people outside the window, or go through that unnessassary hassle. Whether it is distoryed or not is not important.
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:39 pm
Quote: I was stating that before it's a child, it's a toddler, and before then a baby. It's like a teenager, you have to be a certain age to reach 'child' level. Now, what I and every prolifer people debate, is when it becomes a baby.
The term 'baby' (according to dictionary.com) is something that applies to all of these:
A very young child; an infant.
An unborn child; a fetus.
The youngest member of a family or group.
A very young animal.
ALL of them.
That=baby.Quote: The mother has the choice whether she wants a child or not. The father SHOULD have the choice to pay child support if he doesn't want a child and the mother does, but until that law is changed, we can only b***h about it. Quote: If I lived in a 7 story appartment, and on the topmost foor, the only way to get rid of said.... plant, or whatever, is out the window. If I very damn well want it out, I'll just toss it without having to pay for the people outside the window, or go through that unnessassary hassle. Whether it is distoryed or not is not important.
And thank you, I.Am. I appreciate you addressing her points.
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:30 pm
Mcphee The fetus is human. The fetus is a child. It's a baby as soon as it's conceived, my dear.
The term 'baby' (according to dictionary.com) is something that applies to all of these:
A very young child; an infant.
An unborn child; a fetus.
The youngest member of a family or group.
A very young animal.
ALL of them.
That=baby. The correction: the glob of gook. Sorry for calling it the wrong thing. ~tear~ Quote: What's wrong with paying child support? It's another sign that having a baby comes with responsibilities, and, even if you didn't want that baby, you have it. It's there, and you can't do anything about it, because sex comes with responsibilities. Everything in life does. What's wrong with it? Over 1,000 dollars a month he shouldn't be forced to pay for something he doesn't want! Just as the mother's rights are stripped if she is forced, so is the fathers for being forced to pay for support. And, yes, it does, BUT, and that is a big butt-I..I mean but, yeah. One t. <.<;; >.>;; Moving on. Though it does take responcibility to have sex, or should, he can take the precautions of using a condom--it's not just the girls responcibility. He also, if can't convince her to get an abortion, SHOULD be able to go down to the court house or something, and file a annulment, so he doesn't have to pay for a damn thing. Though, the then cannot have ANYTHING, at ALL, to do with the thing once it's popped out. Not a single visit, not a single phone call, nothing. Only, and that is a huge only, if the mother dies, and there are no other relitives, will the offspring go to him, provided he could take care of it. It's not right to force the father, when someone can't force the mother. He must have an option as well. Quote: Yeah, it kind of is. You can't willingly destroy something that belongs, at least in part, to someone else. That's just common decency. If it's destroyed, you have gotten rid of something that someone else had a right to. You can't just throw it out the window, because you don't have that right. It doesn't belong only to you. Well, then, get their lazy a** over here and take it out their own bloody selves. Have them go through the hassle, have them pay for it, and if they damage my house, or don't take it out this ******** instant, then I'm tossing it. Quote: And thank you, I.Am. I appreciate you addressing her points. Hehe, tag-teaming, are you. XP Am I that stubborn?
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:58 am
Mistress DragonFlame Mcphee The fetus is human. The fetus is a child. It's a baby as soon as it's conceived, my dear.
The term 'baby' (according to dictionary.com) is something that applies to all of these:
A very young child; an infant.
An unborn child; a fetus.
The youngest member of a family or group.
A very young animal.
ALL of them.
That=baby. The correction: the glob of gook. Sorry for calling it the wrong thing. ~tear~ Ah, no, fetus would be the correct term. "glob of gook" would be an opinion. Quote: Quote: What's wrong with paying child support? It's another sign that having a baby comes with responsibilities, and, even if you didn't want that baby, you have it. It's there, and you can't do anything about it, because sex comes with responsibilities. Everything in life does. What's wrong with it? Over 1,000 dollars a month he shouldn't be forced to pay for something he doesn't want! Just as the mother's rights are stripped if she is forced, so is the fathers for being forced to pay for support. And, yes, it does, BUT, and that is a big butt-I..I mean but, yeah. One t. <.<;; >.>;; Moving on. Though it does take responcibility to have sex, or should, he can take the precautions of using a condom--it's not just the girls responcibility. He also, if can't convince her to get an abortion, SHOULD be able to go down to the court house or something, and file a annulment, so he doesn't have to pay for a damn thing. Though, the then cannot have ANYTHING, at ALL, to do with the thing once it's popped out. Not a single visit, not a single phone call, nothing. Only, and that is a huge only, if the mother dies, and there are no other relitives, will the offspring go to him, provided he could take care of it. It's not right to force the father, when someone can't force the mother. He must have an option as well. Well, at least you are equal to both sides, rather then being only for the woman being able to do whatever she wants. I admire that. 3nodding However, I really do think that the man should have to pay child support. He took part in the act that created the child, he shouldn't be able to get rid of the responsibilities. But to be fair, he should also have the same rights as the mother and be able to take part in the decision making of what to do about the child. Of course, I don't think the mother should be able to shirk her responsibilities and get rid of the child either, but that's another discussion. Quote: Quote: Yeah, it kind of is. You can't willingly destroy something that belongs, at least in part, to someone else. That's just common decency. If it's destroyed, you have gotten rid of something that someone else had a right to. You can't just throw it out the window, because you don't have that right. It doesn't belong only to you. Well, then, get their lazy a** over here and take it out their own bloody selves. Have them go through the hassle, have them pay for it, and if they damage my house, or don't take it out this ******** instant, then I'm tossing it. Think about how that'd go down in court. To be realistically represented, the person who you share the item with would have to be somewhere out of town, where he can't come and get the item until a certain time period is up. For the sake of argument, let's say... 9 months. You know this. However, you tell him that unless he gets over there right now you are going to toss it out the window, the 23rd story window. How do you think -that- argument is going to hold up? Do you really think anyone will be on your side, when it was well known to everyone that he -couldn't- take it back until that time period was up, because of other responsibilities or something? If it's an item of as immeasurable value as a human child, I don't think the court will side with you. Quote: Quote: And thank you, I.Am. I appreciate you addressing her points. Hehe, tag-teaming, are you. XP Am I that stubborn? Bah, not really tag-teaming... Just helping out when he's not here, and whatnot. This -is- supposed to be an open debate, not a one-on-one thing. 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:14 pm
I.Am Ah, no, fetus would be the correct term. "glob of gook" would be an opinion. Found by Dictionary.com:
"[Fetuses are]The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal. "
So yeah, the glob of gook. Quote: Well, at least you are equal to both sides, rather then being only for the woman being able to do whatever she wants. I admire that. 3nodding (doesn't know how to handle that from a pro-lifer.) ^^;;However, I really do think that the man should have to pay child support. He took part in the act that created the child, he shouldn't be able to get rid of the responsibilities. But to be fair, he should also have the same rights as the mother and be able to take part in the decision making of what to do about the child. Of course, I don't think the mother should be able to shirk her responsibilities and get rid of the child either, but that's another discussion. Yes, that's a discussion on repsoncibility.Quote: Think about how that'd go down in court. To be realistically represented, the person who you share the item with would have to be somewhere out of town, where he can't come and get the item until a certain time period is up. For the sake of argument, let's say... 9 months. You know this. However, you tell him that unless he gets over there right now you are going to toss it out the window, the 23rd story window. How do you think -that- argument is going to hold up? Do you really think anyone will be on your side, when it was well known to everyone that he -couldn't- take it back until that time period was up, because of other responsibilities or something? If it's an item of as immeasurable value as a human child, I don't think the court will side with you. Actually, I think it would--it would depend on the jury, the lawers, and the judge. I'd really love to see how that would turn out, actually. I think it would be interesting.
But, since we have to take in affect he was away, we must turn that she didn't want it to being with. Somehow a giant...lucky cat appeared in her house and she knew it was his and hers, then by all means she shouldn't have to house it.Bah, not really tag-teaming... Just helping out when he's not here, and whatnot. This -is- supposed to be an open debate, not a one-on-one thing. 3nodding True, but when you get really into something with someone, it's a bit rude to but in suddenly. Also, you don't normally thank the add-in. whee You just agree with it, point out something, disagree, and all that acting like they've always been there, not take turns.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm
In the same way a man cannot have sex with an unwilling person, a man cannot force a woman to carry a fetus against her will. I do believe that there should be discussion and compromise, but in the end it must be the mother's descision. Why? because her bodily integrity right are being violated and they supercede any rights you claim the father has (which actually do not come into effect until the fetus is born).
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:11 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:03 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:53 am
Mistress DragonFlame When a fetus is removed (it doesn't even have to be) it is a glob of soft mass that is thick and messy, hence the name. Ah, where are you getting that from? I have never heard of a "thick and messy" fetus. Now, a zygote or an embryo, maybe. But not a fetus. Quote: Thank you then, I'm just use to them getting all ranty and bitching a me, calling me names and such (ED threads). whee Took me off gaurd. You're a good debater as well. 3nodding Well thank you. Quote: Quote: A giant lucky cat made of gold, and with gems for the eyes and teeth, etc., that belonged to both of them. Large enough that it was noticable, and took up an annoying amount of space, but not so large that she wasn't able to do most things she was able to do before. Also extremely beautiful-Except she doesn't want it. Why would she sell it? She doesn't want it, but it also belongs to the other person, who -does- want it, and would probably keep it. Quote: Quote: Not really. Like I said, it's an open debate; If I come in and stay out of the debates already going on, then what will I have to say? Am I just supposed to post my response to the first post? That seems kinda silly, and that's something that drives me insane in most arguments; When people come in, ignore previous posts, and just post about the first post. Maybe that's the way it is, but it's not the way it should be. Quote: Quote: Also, he wasn't thanking me just for helping out, he was thanking me for being here. We are of the opinion that there are far too few Pro-Lifers taking part in this guild, and he knows I've got other things I should be doing but I'm spending time here instead. I'm saying there are too few choicers AND lifers, surprised We need more people in here so there will be plenty of juciy debates going on! But, I'd rather have few quaility ones, then to just be able to rip to shreads without even trying many. whee True. But, nonetheless, there are fewer active Lifers as far as I can tell then there are Choicers.
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:31 pm
I.Am Ah, where are you getting that from? I have never heard of a "thick and messy" fetus. Now, a zygote or an embryo, maybe. But not a fetus. Quote: feom basic thinking. The misscarages biast sites like abortionfacts.com show appear to be not fully form, as if their skin is a sorta liquid. Now, those are a few months older then what normal abortions take place, so it's safe to assume that the fetii is even further underdeveloped, so that the skin is a glob of mass bearly into a shape. Have you ever cracked open a half-formed chicken egg and plaid with the glob of gook within? It's messy, think, and goopy. eek Quote: Why would she sell it? She doesn't want it, but it also belongs to the other person, who -does- want it, and would probably keep it. Well, she could sell it, take half of the money, give him the other half, and say "You go buy it now with that money, and the money you will put forth that is not mine, and then house the thing in your house." Quote: Maybe that's the way it is, but it's not the way it should be. But, we can't really control other people, now can we? We may not like it, but they are intitiled to do it, if it is not spam. Besides, sometimes it's really fun to chread their arguments in one post flat. Quote: True. But, nonetheless, there are fewer active Lifers as far as I can tell then there are Choicers. Because pro-choice is better. whee
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:35 pm
Mistress DragonFlame I.Am Ah, where are you getting that from? I have never heard of a "thick and messy" fetus. Now, a zygote or an embryo, maybe. But not a fetus. feom basic thinking. The misscarages biast sites like abortionfacts.com show appear to be not fully form, as if their skin is a sorta liquid. Now, those are a few months older then what normal abortions take place, so it's safe to assume that the fetii is even further underdeveloped, so that the skin is a glob of mass bearly into a shape. Have you ever cracked open a half-formed chicken egg and plaid with the glob of gook within? It's messy, think, and goopy. eek We are not chickens. And we are not talking about dead fetuses. If you look at pictures of real fetuses, I'm sure Pro-Lifers have sent you many, they don't look like a barely formed mass. Quote: Quote: Why would she sell it? She doesn't want it, but it also belongs to the other person, who -does- want it, and would probably keep it. Well, she could sell it, take half of the money, give him the other half, and say "You go buy it now with that money, and the money you will put forth that is not mine, and then house the thing in your house." And take the risk that someone else will buy it first? Not to mention that you would probably have a heck of a time selling that. Probably take as long to wait for him as to sell it. Quote: Quote: Maybe that's the way it is, but it's not the way it should be. But, we can't really control other people, now can we? We may not like it, but they are intitiled to do it, if it is not spam. Besides, sometimes it's really fun to chread their arguments in one post flat. But it gets boring after a while. Sure, it's nice to trash them every once in a while, but not over and over and over... stressed Quote: Quote: True. But, nonetheless, there are fewer active Lifers as far as I can tell then there are Choicers. Because pro-choice is better. whee Ah, but the road to hell is wide while that to heaven is narrow. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:01 pm
I.Am We are not chickens. And we are not talking about dead fetuses. If you look at pictures of real fetuses, I'm sure Pro-Lifers have sent you many, they don't look like a barely formed mass. We may not be chickens, but that doesn't mean we don't delevope in the same fasion (sp?). And yes, I have, and I still see them as bearly formed masses. And, if they can get sucked out of the utarus with a tube that is thinner then a straw, they sure as hell aren't solid. Quote: And take the risk that someone else will buy it first? Not to mention that you would probably have a heck of a time selling that. Probably take as long to wait for him as to sell it. That's the point, if someone was to buy it at first, they may be willing to sell it again. Also, why should she have to pay, and house for a time, something she doesn't/didn't want? She shouldn't be forced, as well as to later on pay for it's upkeep (child support). Quote: Ah, but the road to hell is wide while that to heaven is narrow. 3nodding And there are many other paths to choose from, and you shouldn't have to take those ones. surprised
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:54 pm
Mistress DragonFlame I.Am We are not chickens. And we are not talking about dead fetuses. If you look at pictures of real fetuses, I'm sure Pro-Lifers have sent you many, they don't look like a barely formed mass. We may not be chickens, but that doesn't mean we don't delevope in the same fasion (sp?). And yes, I have, and I still see them as bearly formed masses. And, if they can get sucked out of the utarus with a tube that is thinner then a straw, they sure as hell aren't solid. Yes, but might I remind you, they smash them first, and then suck them out through a tube. If somebody did that to you, you could be sucked through a tube too. And yes, it is horrible and gross.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:31 pm
Pandali Mistress DragonFlame I.Am We are not chickens. And we are not talking about dead fetuses. If you look at pictures of real fetuses, I'm sure Pro-Lifers have sent you many, they don't look like a barely formed mass. We may not be chickens, but that doesn't mean we don't delevope in the same fasion (sp?). And yes, I have, and I still see them as bearly formed masses. And, if they can get sucked out of the utarus with a tube that is thinner then a straw, they sure as hell aren't solid. Yes, but might I remind you, they smash them first, and then suck them out through a tube. If somebody did that to you, you could be sucked through a tube too. And yes, it is horrible and gross. Really? o.O How do they mash them, then?
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:03 pm
The fetus is 50% of the woman's and 50% the man's, but it's 100% in her body. While I believe a pregnant woman should consult the man for his opinion, if he is willing to support the child, it is ultimately the woman's decision.
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