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 Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:04 am
Hmmm....
Looking at everyone's reasonings, I feel like I should have given Abigail more of a break. *rubs chin*
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:04 am
surprised
So peer pressure made you change? Interesting...
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:26 am
No, Airai, it's not Ivan's opinion... we as the readers are the ones who can have an opinion on the situation. He, himself, used lack of judgment and completely ditched his friend.
I completely disagree that doing bad is worse then doing nothing. It's just as bad, morally. We, as humans, dictate certain things to be worse than others, such as rape, but morally, they are all equally wrong.
As for people who say that he did nothing wrong, because it wasn't his place to get involved in a love affair, that is BS. She was in a bad situation... good friends can't leave their friends in those situations, no matter what. It would seriously inconvenience him, but as a close friend, it shouldn't matter.
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:21 am
Mmm... even if Ivan had come with Abigail or something, Sinbad had threatened to throw Abigail overboard to the alligators, so Sinbad might've been inclined to go even further had he been there--killed, raped, then killed again. We don't know Ivan's strength, of course--he could be a football player or he could be physically powerless.
Furthermore, wouldn't Gregory be closer than Ivan, being her lover? I still say that if anyone's betrayed anyone here, it's Gregory. He, at least, by the very definition of "lover", should be bound to do something about Sinbad, but instead literally spat in Abigail's face. Besides, going out of my way to aid those two lovers eventually would've just annoyed the heck out of me--she would've needed help time and again against Sinbad, so I think to aid in that fling so much would be trying (and probably ruinous) on any friendship.
There are situations where apathy can be as bad as or worse than action (Mewt's point, which was a fair comment), but I still think that in this particular case, apathy wasn't that bad a call.
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:02 pm
I'll reiterate two points from where I stand. -I can't judge Ivan very effectively because I know so little about him, save the fact that he ultimately decided not to get involved. I mean, a second sentence would have done wonders. Let's ignore the fact that "close" is an adjective, which are by nature based on opinion, and we don't really know how "close" they are. Let's also ignore this unwritten rule that "close" friends are obliged to protect each other from unknown dangers, because the one sentence about Ivan did a good job of explaining how selfless and loyal Ivan was. It's perfectly plausable that he had a legitamate reason not to get involved. -Abigail and Gregory are possibly not really in love with each other. He casts her aside after she gets raped, and she laughs as he gets beaten. They live on opposites sides of a alligator infested river, for goodness sake. The boot just doesn't fit. directvantage45 I'm just sick of all five of them. Personally, this situation is a no-win heap of garbage, and I have difficulty relating to any of them. This one's a keeper! 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:48 pm
It's called the buddy system. There's a much greater chance that Sinbad would have just left Abigail alone. The buddy system has been around for ages. And it's not like Gregory was already on her side of the lake. They made plans for her to come over that night. Maybe another night, he would go over there. But I never said that Gregory didn't betray her, because he seriously betrayed her... however, he never got the full story... she just told him that she had to have sex with some guy to get here. Unless I read the story wrong, I never got the impression that she told him that she was raped. He did handle it all wrong though... people in a relationship should talk and be open.
And yes, Saturnos, I guess if friendship held no high regard, then by all means he could go ditch her, and abandon her, and not have done anything wrong in his mind or others... unfortunately for your statement, it is in high regard, and he did abandon her.
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:29 pm
How high is this regard you speak of? Do not pretend to know the entire Story behind Ivan based on the single and solitary sentence with him in it. There was no certainty that Abigail was going to get raped, despite whatever stereotypes about both her and Sinbad you may hold. Now if it was a 0 accurate FACT that Abigail was going to get raped after getting on the boat, and he still did nothing, then I would fault him more than I do. Maybe he should've been more cautious, but we have no clue what kind of person Ivan is. For all I know, he could be a 10-year old penpal kinda "close" friend that actually lives next door to Gregory on the wrong side of the river, and he could be haunted by memories of a past time where his interferance in a situation resulted in a worse case scenerio, not to mention he might have no idea about what rape even is! A farfetched clause, of course, but nothing in the article proves otherwise. All we know is his name, assuming Ivan is in fact a guy, and we know he didn't want to get involved.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:49 pm
This story was purposely vague, therefore we are forced to have an opinion based upon what the story gives us. They say that he is a close friend of Abigail. It doesn't matter that we didn't know whether Sinbad was going to rape her at first or not, he still knew that Abigail felt uncomfortable with Sinbad, and that the whole situation looked shady, which is all he needed to see that he shouldn't have left her alone.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:14 pm
Everybody is ******** in the head. Except for nobody. Not including me.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:49 pm
But we don't know that he knew if Abigail was uncomfortable or not. And Abigail wasn't in a bad situation when Ivan decided not to get involved so I don't see how it's abandonment. And it isn't even suggested that Ivan knew Abigail was uncomfortable with Sinbad - just that he was a friend who didn't want to get involved.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:56 pm
But we do know that he knew she didn't feel comfortable. :/
And if it didn't- my new beef with Ivan is that he was freaking brain dead to not see the situation as it was. It doesn't take a genius to say that he should have tried to stop her, or have gone with her.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:15 pm
It never suggests he knew Abigail was uncomfortable. We don't even know if he was present when she decided to board.
At worst, he was an a** for a friend, but at best, he was oblivious to any danger and might have even thought it was a good idea since Abigail would get to see Gregory, or that he shouldn't be in the presence of the two lovers.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:28 pm
The reason why I think Ivan did what he was okay because I found myself in a similar situation as he was in. It involved a good friend of mine at the time, My EX (who was dating my good friend at the time), and me. Let just say she interpret something wrong in her eyes but in my EX thought he didn't do anything wrong. I got involved and it ended with the fact that me and my EX hating her.
Anyways, I metion this because if you interpret how gregory "over reacted" when Abigail told him the full-story, I assume that he would over react the fact that Ivan was involved in their love live.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:35 pm
That has nothing to do with Ivan, it has to do with Slug.
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:46 pm
Arai Himura It never suggests he knew Abigail was uncomfortable. We don't even know if he was present when she decided to board. At worst, he was an a** for a friend, but at best, he was oblivious to any danger and might have even thought it was a good idea since Abigail would get to see Gregory, or that he shouldn't be in the presence of the two lovers. Good point.
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