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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:30 am
He has Redeemed Me!Though I Also, here is one of the reasons why I don't beleive that Allah and the Christian/Jewish God are the same.
(From the Quran) [3:31] Proclaim: "If you love GOD, you should follow me." GOD will then love you, and forgive your sins. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[3:32] Proclaim: "You shall obey GOD and the messenger." If they turn away, GOD does not love the disbelievers.
The Christian God loves the entire human race, no matter what. He loves us when we turn away from him, and he loves us when we are with him. But Allah doesn't seem to love everyone.
And also 2:284 -[2:284] To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. Whether you declare your innermost thoughts, or keep them hidden, GOD holds you responsible for them. He forgives whomever He wills, and condemns whomever He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.
What bothers me most is that God (Allah, this is an English version Quran) will forgive who he chooses, and condemn who he chooses. So... even if we are Muslim he may still choose to condemn us? And what about repentance? Even when we repent, we are still accountable for the sins of the past?
Just though to share that with you, that's just a few of the reasons why I don't think God and Allah are the same~  am undeserving, He gave his life for mine.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:42 am
mazuac He has Redeemed Me!Though I Also, here is one of the reasons why I don't beleive that Allah and the Christian/Jewish God are the same.
(From the Quran) [3:31] Proclaim: "If you love GOD, you should follow me." GOD will then love you, and forgive your sins. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[3:32] Proclaim: "You shall obey GOD and the messenger." If they turn away, GOD does not love the disbelievers.
The Christian God loves the entire human race, no matter what. He loves us when we turn away from him, and he loves us when we are with him. But Allah doesn't seem to love everyone.
And also 2:284 -[2:284] To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. Whether you declare your innermost thoughts, or keep them hidden, GOD holds you responsible for them. He forgives whomever He wills, and condemns whomever He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.
What bothers me most is that God (Allah, this is an English version Quran) will forgive who he chooses, and condemn who he chooses. So... even if we are Muslim he may still choose to condemn us? And what about repentance? Even when we repent, we are still accountable for the sins of the past?
Just though to share that with you, that's just a few of the reasons why I don't think God and Allah are the same~  am undeserving, He gave his life for mine. Wait, following a prophet or God is wrong? So, we are supposed to ignore what God or prophets tell us and listen only to Jesus? God and the messenger? Like how we're supposed to follow God and his messenger, Jesus? And how can you consider throwing people into pits of burning tar loving for committing this offense? It is exactly the same idea. You are saying that God doesn't love muslims if he will allow them to burn for worshiping him differently. And please, don't give me the "He loves him so he punishes them!" crap, that's just stupidity. I've heard it before. Oh, and according to the Old Testament, God DOES hate gays, sorcerers, tax collectors, those who eat shrimp or pork, and folks into bestiality. Hence his support of their murder. And is God not choosing who does and doesn't get into heaven through Jesus? Isn't that pretty much a choice of God to leave the bar at Jesus and Jesus alone? And as for the muslim idea of God "choosing" who to accept and who to reject, this is what is known as "Judgement"- Determining not by religious affiliation, but by acts. So Osama, for breaking the "Though shalt not kill" rule, will be judged badly even though he is a muslim. Edit- I don't know the exact value of repenting or what one could do to repent for such things. This is why I think it is just better to... say... Not kill people or spread genocide in the first place.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:48 am
Angel of the End divineseraph And I say bullshit. Yes, I am calling parts of the bible bullshit. Unless we should go back to killing women who practice sorcery and homosexuals. It is simply wrong, and God knows that it is wrong. God would not make such bullshit. If he's so forgiving, why won't he forgive them for a misunderstanding? And for that matter, if Jesus is God, then by believing in the same God, they believe in what Jesus wanted them to believe, according to you- God. Logically explained through Modus Ponens. J=G, C>J and M>G. Therefore, C=M. J= Jesus, G= God, C= Christian, M = Muslim. Jesus is God. If christian, then (believe in) jesus. since Jesus is God, If christian, then (believe in) god. If muslim, then (believe in) God. Therefore, Christians= Muslims. God gave us free will to decide what we wanted to do with our existance, and to choose to be forgiven by him or not. We serve one of two masters, thats it. How can a house that is divided against itself stand? And if there is more than one way into Heaven, why would God himself have come down and died a sinners death for the very people that rebuked him? Because he is a God of love who has given us free will because of this, and because a God of anything but love would not do such a thing. In addition, he does not tell us to kill or to judge. He himself would not condem whore and murderers who truely believed he was the son of God and wanted forgivness! Notice however, he did tell them to "go and sin no more". And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:17 So.... misunderstanding might be part of it, but if God shows himself and they do not wish to understand or feel condemed or angry because of this, well, they choose that. Why is there more than one way? There isn't. There is only one way. But the way is NOT limited to Jesus. It IS limited to a life of peace and virtue.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:09 pm
divineseraph Angel of the End divineseraph And I say bullshit. Yes, I am calling parts of the bible bullshit. Unless we should go back to killing women who practice sorcery and homosexuals. It is simply wrong, and God knows that it is wrong. God would not make such bullshit. If he's so forgiving, why won't he forgive them for a misunderstanding? And for that matter, if Jesus is God, then by believing in the same God, they believe in what Jesus wanted them to believe, according to you- God. Logically explained through Modus Ponens. J=G, C>J and M>G. Therefore, C=M. J= Jesus, G= God, C= Christian, M = Muslim. Jesus is God. If christian, then (believe in) jesus. since Jesus is God, If christian, then (believe in) god. If muslim, then (believe in) God. Therefore, Christians= Muslims. God gave us free will to decide what we wanted to do with our existance, and to choose to be forgiven by him or not. We serve one of two masters, thats it. How can a house that is divided against itself stand? And if there is more than one way into Heaven, why would God himself have come down and died a sinners death for the very people that rebuked him? Because he is a God of love who has given us free will because of this, and because a God of anything but love would not do such a thing. In addition, he does not tell us to kill or to judge. He himself would not condem whore and murderers who truely believed he was the son of God and wanted forgivness! Notice however, he did tell them to "go and sin no more". And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:17 So.... misunderstanding might be part of it, but if God shows himself and they do not wish to understand or feel condemed or angry because of this, well, they choose that. Why is there more than one way? There isn't. There is only one way. But the way is NOT limited to Jesus. It IS limited to a life of peace and virtue. But it is by any sin that we fall short of the glory of God, and thus can not be with him. And the punishment for all and any sin, no matter how great or small, is eternal separation from God. Jesus died for this, and when he did, he also made every kind of meat that was unclean before clean. Keep in mind, what you were saying before about punishments were in the Old Testiment. Back then, the Jews were God's only chosen people, and to keep them "clean", such laws were rather in need. It is like with school and the rules and stuff, with how his children react to the rules. Also, there was no eternal forgivness of sins, so it was also to keep his people from sinning.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:38 pm
Angel of the End divineseraph Angel of the End divineseraph And I say bullshit. Yes, I am calling parts of the bible bullshit. Unless we should go back to killing women who practice sorcery and homosexuals. It is simply wrong, and God knows that it is wrong. God would not make such bullshit. If he's so forgiving, why won't he forgive them for a misunderstanding? And for that matter, if Jesus is God, then by believing in the same God, they believe in what Jesus wanted them to believe, according to you- God. Logically explained through Modus Ponens. J=G, C>J and M>G. Therefore, C=M. J= Jesus, G= God, C= Christian, M = Muslim. Jesus is God. If christian, then (believe in) jesus. since Jesus is God, If christian, then (believe in) god. If muslim, then (believe in) God. Therefore, Christians= Muslims. God gave us free will to decide what we wanted to do with our existance, and to choose to be forgiven by him or not. We serve one of two masters, thats it. How can a house that is divided against itself stand? And if there is more than one way into Heaven, why would God himself have come down and died a sinners death for the very people that rebuked him? Because he is a God of love who has given us free will because of this, and because a God of anything but love would not do such a thing. In addition, he does not tell us to kill or to judge. He himself would not condem whore and murderers who truely believed he was the son of God and wanted forgivness! Notice however, he did tell them to "go and sin no more". And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:17 So.... misunderstanding might be part of it, but if God shows himself and they do not wish to understand or feel condemed or angry because of this, well, they choose that. Why is there more than one way? There isn't. There is only one way. But the way is NOT limited to Jesus. It IS limited to a life of peace and virtue. But it is by any sin that we fall short of the glory of God, and thus can not be with him. And the punishment for all and any sin, no matter how great or small, is eternal separation from God. Jesus died for this, and when he did, he also made every kind of meat that was unclean before clean. Keep in mind, what you were saying before about punishments were in the Old Testiment. Back then, the Jews were God's only chosen people, and to keep them "clean", such laws were rather in need. It is like with school and the rules and stuff, with how his children react to the rules. Also, there was no eternal forgivness of sins, so it was also to keep his people from sinning. Ok, and other books say otherwise. I say otherwise. All jews who ever sinned went directly to hell, did not pass go, nor collected two hundred dollars? Sorry, that's just not true. God forgives, right? He can forgive for a misunderstanding, if it even is a misunderstanding. But if you are the one misunderstanding the will of God, what will happen to you, to claim that all those others deserve death? Are you not like the jews of the old testament, then, listening so closely to the old rules that you forget to open your eyes to the true God?
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:07 pm
Salvation is now open to us like it was to them. And again, how cruel of God would he be to forgive people when they did not want to be forgiven, bring them into eternity when even if they lived a "good" life on Earth, they did not wish to know him? God can forgive misunderstanding, but again... Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Mt 7:14 "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." If my God, THE God is a God that says anything goes, who made me with faults and will punish me so awefully if I live bad and then want and beg for forgivness... that is cruel and unjust, and I would rather live an easy life in sin and saying that anything goes. And as for the "old rules", if it was right then, it is right now. If it was pure then, it is pure now.
Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father who created all the lights in the heavens. He is always the same and never makes dark shadows by changing. (James 1:17) Jesus Christ never changes! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 )
Edit: Sorry about that mistake at the beginning. You see, I do not read the old testiment as often as the new testiment sweatdrop in addition, I was thinking about when they made sacrifices to the Lord.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:28 pm
divineseraph Angel of the End divineseraph Angel of the End divineseraph And I say bullshit. Yes, I am calling parts of the bible bullshit. Unless we should go back to killing women who practice sorcery and homosexuals. It is simply wrong, and God knows that it is wrong. God would not make such bullshit. If he's so forgiving, why won't he forgive them for a misunderstanding? And for that matter, if Jesus is God, then by believing in the same God, they believe in what Jesus wanted them to believe, according to you- God. Logically explained through Modus Ponens. J=G, C>J and M>G. Therefore, C=M. J= Jesus, G= God, C= Christian, M = Muslim. Jesus is God. If christian, then (believe in) jesus. since Jesus is God, If christian, then (believe in) god. If muslim, then (believe in) God. Therefore, Christians= Muslims. God gave us free will to decide what we wanted to do with our existance, and to choose to be forgiven by him or not. We serve one of two masters, thats it. How can a house that is divided against itself stand? And if there is more than one way into Heaven, why would God himself have come down and died a sinners death for the very people that rebuked him? Because he is a God of love who has given us free will because of this, and because a God of anything but love would not do such a thing. In addition, he does not tell us to kill or to judge. He himself would not condem whore and murderers who truely believed he was the son of God and wanted forgivness! Notice however, he did tell them to "go and sin no more". And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:17 So.... misunderstanding might be part of it, but if God shows himself and they do not wish to understand or feel condemed or angry because of this, well, they choose that. Why is there more than one way? There isn't. There is only one way. But the way is NOT limited to Jesus. It IS limited to a life of peace and virtue. But it is by any sin that we fall short of the glory of God, and thus can not be with him. And the punishment for all and any sin, no matter how great or small, is eternal separation from God. Jesus died for this, and when he did, he also made every kind of meat that was unclean before clean. Keep in mind, what you were saying before about punishments were in the Old Testiment. Back then, the Jews were God's only chosen people, and to keep them "clean", such laws were rather in need. It is like with school and the rules and stuff, with how his children react to the rules. Also, there was no eternal forgivness of sins, so it was also to keep his people from sinning. Ok, and other books say otherwise. I say otherwise. All jews who ever sinned went directly to hell, did not pass go, nor collected two hundred dollars? Sorry, that's just not true. God forgives, right? He can forgive for a misunderstanding, if it even is a misunderstanding. But if you are the one misunderstanding the will of God, what will happen to you, to claim that all those others deserve death? Are you not like the jews of the old testament, then, listening so closely to the old rules that you forget to open your eyes to the true God? If your talking about the Jews back in the Old testament. Their in heaven, when Jesus died he was given the keys of Hades and freed the ones such as Noah, David, etc, and he went and opened the door and set the captors free. 1 Peter 3:19-20: "He went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water." At first you would be right to an extent since their are 3 hells. But i'm not going to get into all of that.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:49 pm
In response to the original question:
I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement.
As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity:
They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:04 pm
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:50 pm
Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well. It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:55 pm
Angel of the End Salvation is now open to us like it was to them. And again, how cruel of God would he be to forgive people when they did not want to be forgiven, bring them into eternity when even if they lived a "good" life on Earth, they did not wish to know him? God can forgive misunderstanding, but again... Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Mt 7:14 "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." If my God, THE God is a God that says anything goes, who made me with faults and will punish me so awefully if I live bad and then want and beg for forgivness... that is cruel and unjust, and I would rather live an easy life in sin and saying that anything goes. And as for the "old rules", if it was right then, it is right now. If it was pure then, it is pure now. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father who created all the lights in the heavens. He is always the same and never makes dark shadows by changing. (James 1:17) Jesus Christ never changes! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 ) Edit: Sorry about that mistake at the beginning. You see, I do not read the old testiment as often as the new testiment sweatdrop in addition, I was thinking about when they made sacrifices to the Lord. They DO want to be forgiven! Just by God, not by Jesus They worship just as faithfully, in the very same God, often times more devoutly than christians. My God, you are so blind it's pathetic. You can't seem to see much farther than your own eyelids. Your second paragraph makes no sense, it is a random jumble of half-thoughts and misinterpretations of what I said. At least I hope they were misinterpretations and not original logic, or else your mind is a twisted, chaotic vortex of unconnected, backwards demi-logic. If it was right then? Well, they had no Jesus then, so no Jesus must be right now.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:00 pm
Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. Since when is world peace blasphemous? Since when is worshiping God as you understand Him a heresy? The only issue that would arise would come from idiots spouting ideas that THEIR prophet and ONLY their prophet offered true salvation, and that all the others were just poor, misunderstood failures of God doomed to an eternity of gnashing of teeth.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:18 pm
It may be in bad taste to mention this, since I don't think I'm a prophet, but doesn't it seem... ironic...
Last time a person stood up with a new idea for unity and peace, he was turned against by the current popular religion as a heretic, since they loved their tradition so much. Must have been about 2000 years or so ago. He turned out to be a real hit, has a calendar made after him and has little statues and everything.
Irony for the win.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:44 pm
divineseraph Sarcastic_Angel In response to the original question: I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement. As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity: They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible. Since when is world peace blasphemous? Since when is worshiping God as you understand Him a heresy? The only issue that would arise would come from idiots spouting ideas that THEIR prophet and ONLY their prophet offered true salvation, and that all the others were just poor, misunderstood failures of God doomed to an eternity of gnashing of teeth. She didn't say that. She said mixing Christianity, Islam, Budhhism, and all the others together would be blasphemy. She didn't say anything about heresy, and our religion is the only way to God. I don't damn people to hell, I don't shove my religion down other people's throats, and people who do are stupid minorities who get all the media attention. Next time you make an argument, don't put words in other people's mouths.
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:47 pm
divineseraph It may be in bad taste to mention this, since I don't think I'm a prophet, but doesn't it seem... ironic... Last time a person stood up with a new idea for unity and peace, he was turned against by the current popular religion as a heretic, since they loved their tradition so much. Must have been about 2000 years or so ago. He turned out to be a real hit, has a calendar made after him and has little statues and everything. Irony for the win. Here's the actual story: When Jesus Christ stood up with a new idea for salvation for the world, he was turned against by the hypocritical leaders of Judaism as a heratic. It was about 2000 years ago, and was the only way to heaven. Next time, get your facts straight. Truth for the win.
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