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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:22 am
Rajani Kali hypnocrown Yeah, I guess yer right Egyptian Dragon. Still, I wanted to create a black angel and I did. mrgreen Sorry I came into this so late, but the discussion on black angels struck my interest and had me out doing major goggle work. I did a lot of work with icons this past term (mostly Greek and Antiochan Orthodoxy), and noticed that while there are occasionally Black Madonnas and African saints, I hadn't really seen any black angels, but then I hadn't done a lot of work with the Oriental churches. My search with Coptic icons turned up nothing, so I just went for broke and searched "black angels". A lot of modern artwork, but no real icons. But then I remembered Ethiopian Orthodoxy! And voila! we have results...  As for the rest of the discussion, I've always loved angels, though I've never thought of including them in any of my fantasy. I think what I loved most as a kid would be more under the category of Cherubim than all out angel, but now that I've been studying so much Eastern Orthodox iconography, my internal image of angels are much different than they used to be. To me, angels have a very feminine appearance, but they're of undetermined sex. Sex and gender are earthly concepts that they are above (I also feel this way about some faery and spirit races). I also think that we project an image onto them that we want to see; meaning an individual angel's sex, race, general appearance change to fit the perception of the believer.
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:57 am
hypnocrown Back in topic, do you think a soul who died when he/she was a baby (it doesn't matter how), can still become an angel if he/she didn't live long? I know there are portraits of baby angels but I wonder... neutral I ask cuz a cousin of mine had a baby prematurely and she died after barely a month and a half of being alive. Things like that make me think that maybe, with the possibility of reincarnation, she still has a chance of coming back in another body and live again. Who knows... mrgreen "Baby angels" would be putti. They're the cute little angels used in Renaissance art (think Cupid). It seems that they're more a part of art history than any kind of theology, but they were first seen in the 2nd century on the sarcophagi of dead children, so I suppose they came to represent them. Most people think of them as Cherubim (Cherubs), but there is a major difference. These is are Putti: This is a Cherub (well, kind of, it's the best smallish image I could find): Cherubim are very much based on theology and have very little to do with the cute little Cupid babies. They are said to be the second highest level of angels, right after the Seraphim.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:15 pm
E-Dragon: Thanks for all that info! I can certainly understand yer points when it comes to premature deaths; as well as the thing you said about souls becoming angels. I hear it wasn't Ramses the second who actually did those things. I hear it was a Pharaoh by the name of Ahmose. Who knows... I certainly never thought about that theory of yers when it comes to babies who are killed or whatnot. As for angel's appearance, I think I agree with Laura about the fact that an angel doesn't actually look as they may be depicted in some popular concepts but, that it changes according to whoever happens to be seeing them at the time. I'm pretty sure an angel cannot be seen unless it wants you to see it. Kinda like in that movie with Meg Ryan and Nicholas Cage. 3nodding B-rad: Yeah, I suppose male angels aren't as popular or, maybe it has been mostly women who have seen angels and they see them as women. Who knows, right? Rajani: Don't worry about coming late Laura! Anyone can join if they have something to add. I'm glad that my interest in black angels caught yer eye. I was actually first introduced to the idea years ago when I read a Spanish comic about a black kid called "Memín". It's cool you managed to find something out there, good job! wink I think it's rather strange that even though you love angels, you haven't included them in any of yer stories. It's ok cuz we have no idea how yer stories are. sweatdrop I have heard of Cherubims/Seraphims but I couldn't remember the words until you mentioned them. And like I said above, I agree with yer view of angels and how they probably don't have sex, race or an average appearance. Unless maybe, they are like E-Dragon said, an angel that came from a human soul. You know? Gee, I had no idea about such differences. The other one looks like out of a fantasy novel or something. I mean, head of a lion? Wow! eek
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:00 pm
Ahmose might have been the Pharaoh who was in power when the nomads entered Egypt for help. Ramses II was the one who was in power when the whole Passover story supposedly took place.
Angels will usually take on the form of a handsome young man with gorgeous bright blue eyes when helping. Of course, I highly doubt that is the only form they take when being seen by a human: that would seem sexist on God's part. xD And yes, they will only be seen if they want to be seen. 3nodding Otherwise, we would all see our Guardian Angels all the time.
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:27 am
hypnocrown Rajani: Don't worry about coming late Laura! Anyone can join if they have something to add. I'm glad that my interest in black angels caught yer eye. I was actually first introduced to the idea years ago when I read a Spanish comic about a black kid called "Memín". It's cool you managed to find something out there, good job! wink Research is kind of what I do... but it helps that I had a vague idea on where to look for it. I've been doing a lot with Eastern Orthodoxy a lot lately and I knew that a lot of their images (icons) are a lot different from those in Catholicism. hypnocrown I think it's rather strange that even though you love angels, you haven't included them in any of yer stories. It's ok cuz we have no idea how yer stories are. sweatdrop I'm sure I'll use angels eventually, I just haven't found a way to work them into my worlds yet. I'm using so much of the faery world right now that I think putting angels in would kind of over do it with the supernatural beings razz
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:24 pm
E-Dragon: Well, as you said, that's supposedly what happened. I don't realy care who it was anyway cuz it was so long ago and besides, maybe all those scholars are misinterpreting the whole thing. Who knows... rolleyes Yeah, that sounds about right. It's like that movie I was talking about a while ago. mrgreen BTW, isn't funny that Nicolas Cage has played both an angel and a ghost rider now? He-he... Rajani Kali: I'm glad you like to do research. I do that sometimes too! I've done a bit of that after starting my Kenshin Belmont Journal. I didn't want it to seem like it was completely fiction. I wanted it to be a historical story with a dash of fiction and fantasy even. 3nodding I don't mind if you use angels or not, but it may be cool to see how you use them in yer stories.
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:27 pm
Hey~! Two questions, real fast:
~Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel (alternate spelling available) are all agreed as the names of four of the seven archangels--I've tried looking up the other three, but it's a different story every time. Does anybody know of any consistancy for the final three?
~I ran across a piece of artwork on deviantart.com that seemed to make the claim that Uriel (depicted as a female), had an almost forbidden love story going on with Lucifer, but so far I've found nothing that supports this story. Request for backup, if any exists!
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:01 pm
I'm sorry to say that I don't know much about the subject Azriel. I do know that wikipedia has lots of info but if even that site has nothing conclusive on the last three archangels then I am at a loss as to where else we can find out.
I never even heard of an archangel having anything like that with Lucifer but that could be cuz I am not in the loop with all that religious mumbo jumbo (no disrespect intended, he-he). sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:14 pm
No problem---I'll just keep looking.
I found the picture again--and looked a little futher into the story. Turns out the artist was using the character of Uriel in an RP, and had Uriel fall for Lucifer. So, it's just a storyline with no basis.
It's an interesting idea, though---kind of..what's it called? stockholm syndrome? but only slightly.
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:24 pm
Ok!
I'm glad you found it. I am not sure I fully understand everything you mentioned there but, what the hey! sweatdrop
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