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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:57 pm
Oh wow...that makes a lot of difference. I always thought that the affection system focused on Cloud's feelings. rolleyes
And yeah, Ultimania is a big one that points to Cloti even moreso that Cleris. It couldn't get anymore clearer. Still, to have Square become this bold is questionable. I guess they're tired of the bajillion fanmails that ask who the true couple is? xd
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:47 am
Twindream Oh wow...that makes a lot of difference. I always thought that the affection system focused on Cloud's feelings. rolleyes And yeah, Ultimania is a big one that points to Cloti even moreso that Cleris. It couldn't get anymore clearer. Still, to have Square become this bold is questionable. I guess they're tired of the bajillion fanmails that ask who the true couple is? xd 
That's kind of what I think... well... it's hard. The gameplay itself kind of shows that it is your own choice, since they give you the opportunity to change the scenes to how you want them. But then again, there are the default ones. Aeris' date scene, and the "good" Highwind scene. I like the concept that it's not Cloud's feelings, but the feelings of the characters. Like if you are nice to Tifa, she gets the impression that you two should go on a date, and same with Aeris. Either way, his feelings aren't really shown in either scene, so I've come to the conclusion that the date scene is semi-irrelivant to the LTD.
I had a similar experience with Star Wars. There's a character in Episode II who's identity was in question. Originally it was meant to be one character, but the mask was lost and when they put together something quick, it didn't look like him. So in the credits, it says another character (and the figure that came out for that movie's line said it was this character). But some kids book came out saying it was a completely different character from the original two it could have been. When LucasFilm finally decided to end the debate over whether it was the character in the credits, or the character from the kids books, they said it was neither and told us it was the original guy. The best part is, he's in Episode I, and Episode III, but for some reason his looks completely change for Episode II and then changes back. Urg, it's so stupid.
Anyways, I sort of can see Square saying this as being a similar thing. Wanting to not really answer the question, but give enough of a fake answer that there's no room to really debate it anymore.
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:59 pm
Iseru Dryves o.oll ookay.. WELL.. I'm just going to read a bit there and maybe post but Lunar-sama you've already posted so much, need I add more? XD She can't type to save her life and she sounds like a total noobtard when she does that. Well, he who attacks, gets a return blow and I must say she had nothing to base her facts on except something she misinterpreted. Iseru it REALLY makes me happy you made that point to the child that true love isn't all hugs and snuggles and kisses. Takes a lot of work. Honestly I'm starting to believe most Cleris fans are happy little go lucky children fangirls who can't look past their own nose and understand that love isn't easy to deal with. I've honestly been in Cloud's position lately and my girlfriend had to wake me the ******** up and say," HEY! STFU and start working on making it better! You being an emo ******** isn't helping us and it definately isn't helping me!" But yeah I have more appreciation for Cloti in AC now...XD
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:08 pm
"All that we see or seem, Is but a dream within a dream." Right--- I think FFVII was meant to be a "players interpretation" type of thing. Again, the Ultimania is solid confirmation of what the 'true' pairing really is--- at least in my eyes. Like Ryu said, they seem to be moving towards the true pairings, which IMO are clearly:
CloudxTifa.
ZackxAeris.
Crisis Core, Before Crisis, The Ultimania, and AC (Not so much, but the Ultimania really confirms a lot about it) all point to CT.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:18 pm
fishsama999 Iseru Dryves o.oll ookay.. WELL.. I'm just going to read a bit there and maybe post but Lunar-sama you've already posted so much, need I add more? XD She can't type to save her life and she sounds like a total noobtard when she does that. Well, he who attacks, gets a return blow and I must say she had nothing to base her facts on except something she misinterpreted. Iseru it REALLY makes me happy you made that point to the child that true love isn't all hugs and snuggles and kisses. Takes a lot of work. Honestly I'm starting to believe most Cleris fans are happy little go lucky children fangirls who can't look past their own nose and understand that love isn't easy to deal with. I've honestly been in Cloud's position lately and my girlfriend had to wake me the ******** up and say," HEY! STFU and start working on making it better! You being an emo ******** isn't helping us and it definately isn't helping me!" But yeah I have more appreciation for Cloti in AC now...XD Lol! That is so classic! You've got an awesome girlfriend....pass all the profanities anyway. xd Yeah, real couples are able to relate more to Cloud and Tifa because the creators themselves wanted to portray that, like having Tifa as a role model to all the women who were left by their man. It's reality that FFVII is trying to portray--death, life, and love. And yeah, I've already found out that most Cleris fans think more romantically than realistically. They chock up their debates with symbolism rather than established facts and they just love to twist those facts to suit themselves. Quote: That's kind of what I think... well... it's hard. The gameplay itself kind of shows that it is your own choice, since they give you the opportunity to change the scenes to how you want them. But then again, there are the default ones. Aeris' date scene, and the "good" Highwind scene. I like the concept that it's not Cloud's feelings, but the feelings of the characters. Like if you are nice to Tifa, she gets the impression that you two should go on a date, and same with Aeris. Either way, his feelings aren't really shown in either scene, so I've come to the conclusion that the date scene is semi-irrelivant to the LTD. I had a similar experience with Star Wars. There's a character in Episode II who's identity was in question. Originally it was meant to be one character, but the mask was lost and when they put together something quick, it didn't look like him. So in the credits, it says another character (and the figure that came out for that movie's line said it was this character). But some kids book came out saying it was a completely different character from the original two it could have been. When LucasFilm finally decided to end the debate over whether it was the character in the credits, or the character from the kids books, they said it was neither and told us it was the original guy. The best part is, he's in Episode I, and Episode III, but for some reason his looks completely change for Episode II and then changes back. Urg, it's so stupid. Anyways, I sort of can see Square saying this as being a similar thing. Wanting to not really answer the question, but give enough of a fake answer that there's no room to really debate it anymore. That makes sense, they way you're putting it. And yeah, now that I realize this, a lot of the scenes have little effect to the LTD especially if you're trying to get a character to like Cloud rather than he like them....yeah...now that I think about it....you can't make Cloud like Barret...but you can make Barret like him. xd Whoo!
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:06 pm
Twindream fishsama999 Iseru Dryves o.oll ookay.. WELL.. I'm just going to read a bit there and maybe post but Lunar-sama you've already posted so much, need I add more? XD She can't type to save her life and she sounds like a total noobtard when she does that. Well, he who attacks, gets a return blow and I must say she had nothing to base her facts on except something she misinterpreted. Iseru it REALLY makes me happy you made that point to the child that true love isn't all hugs and snuggles and kisses. Takes a lot of work. Honestly I'm starting to believe most Cleris fans are happy little go lucky children fangirls who can't look past their own nose and understand that love isn't easy to deal with. I've honestly been in Cloud's position lately and my girlfriend had to wake me the ******** up and say," HEY! STFU and start working on making it better! You being an emo ******** isn't helping us and it definately isn't helping me!" But yeah I have more appreciation for Cloti in AC now...XD Lol! That is so classic! You've got an awesome girlfriend....pass all the profanities anyway. xd Yeah, real couples are able to relate more to Cloud and Tifa because the creators themselves wanted to portray that, like having Tifa as a role model to all the women who were left by their man. It's reality that FFVII is trying to portray--death, life, and love. And yeah, I've already found out that most Cleris fans think more romantically than realistically. They chock up their debates with symbolism rather than established facts and they just love to twist those facts to suit themselves. I truly believe that. Cloti's for mature audiences with a better understanding of relationships and how they need to work to survive. But Cleris makes me want to ******** shoot someone with all of it's little girl s**t sometimes. It's really annoying but meh, let the Disney princesses have their day. When they start having relationship issues when they're older they'll come around. As a kid playing the game I always had a great appreciation of Cloti. I'd been exposed to that type of relationship and how something such as that needs to work.
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:27 pm
Quote: I truly believe that. Cloti's for mature audiences with a better understanding of relationships and how they need to work to survive. Not only better understanding of relationships, but a better understanding of the game itself. The Cleris view of the game completely disregards Cloud's mental condition, which is such a huge part that it makes to so obvious now why they are so confused. They see this romance come out of nowhere and instantly think true love. And then faced with the facts that it doesn't come out of nowhere and it's actually a really interesting situation, they just don't believe in the facts and still believe in the fairytale. I know I said early that I thought it was an LTD and that's what the game was giving us... but now that I understand Cleris more... it's really not. Because their entire basis of the argument is based on disregarding the facts and not paying attention to the game enough. XP
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:55 pm
Well I was looking at it from a relationship POV but yeah that makes sense...XD
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:06 pm
The most annoying aspect of most Cleris fans is their blatant disregard for much of the game or any spinoff. In fact, if you look at FFVII, Cloud and Aeris don't really have that many interactions and their interactions weren't exactly very prominent. Cloti fans see Cloti as obvious because Cloud and Tifa's relationship seem more dominant especially after the Lifestream event. I honestly thought that they were a couple when it hit that part of the game with I first played it. You'd have to be blind to not see how specially Cloud treats Tifa after the Lifestream. He gives a lot more attention to her overall and is a very sweet talker. biggrin
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:36 am
Exactly! And the HW scene only emphasizes this. XP Because prior to this, he's not himself, so of course we aren't going to see his feelings for Tifa surface. The lifestream scene proves that Cloud still feels that way when his own mind tells Tifa to tell Cloud how she felt. His own mind. Doesn't get anymore truthful than that. If Cloud really didn't love Tifa anymore and had moved on, wouldn't Tifa telling him all that be painful and not what he'd want? Yet no, his mind wants Tifa to tell him the truth, which we see in the HW scene (and descriptions of the HW scene say that Tifa finally reveals her feelings). Why doesn't Cloud reveal his? Because the game obviously has already shown us him revealing them. He tells us flat out everything he did, he did for Tifa. If that's not love I don't know what is. So after that it's Tifa's turn. Plus, Cloud wants to tell her something, but then doesn't know what. I think it's obvious he knows she knows already. Like, "I don't know how to tell you the obvious." *shrugs* Like I say to the Cleris. Obviously you are going to think the HW scene turning to black is just passage of time if you think Cloud's still holding a torch for his dead girlfriend. But we see that the writers make this scene romantic. We see a romantic line, then cut to black. If Tifa gets shut down, she's pretty darn happy about it in the next scene. XP
And that, is proof enough.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 am
Damn skippy. Sorry but the Highwind scene just makes it all come together for me. It always has and always will.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:00 am
Agrees. They just seem to like to disregard any part of the story that could make Cleris not real. HW scene being romantic, the lifestream having Cloud tell Tifa his feelings, Cloud not being his real self... these are ALL important parts of the game... and instead of trying to defend their pairing around the scenes in the game, they pretend, I dunno, they don't exist?
*shrugs*
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:50 am
Because they're too blind to see beyond the end of their noses. Yeah. Definitely know what you're saying there.
It's hard to think of the game WITHOUT those scenes... Here's an interesting thought...XD What if they stopped playing the moment Aeris died. XD All of those scenes and revelations are after the end of disc one. XD
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:17 pm
fishsama999 Because they're too blind to see beyond the end of their noses. Yeah. Definitely know what you're saying there. It's hard to think of the game WITHOUT those scenes... Here's an interesting thought...XD What if they stopped playing the moment Aeris died. XD All of those scenes and revelations are after the end of disc one. XD
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:40 pm
Which I don't get! How can you be a true fan if you haven't even played the game?! The reason why you'd like the pairing would only be because you like how they look together! It's so idiotic! They think they are such know-it-alls after reading the script, watching the movie, etc...
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