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While it is true that social changes can happen quickly, I really don't feel that a law making it legal to kill older people without their consent would be passed within my lifetime. I mean, it is still illegal in the US to help a terminally ill person die (who wants to, obviously). Plus, like I said, our lawmakers and a good number of our voters are older people. I mean, I can see Social Security disappearing (though I hope not), but not a law allowing killing older people.

Not to moderate, but this is getting really off-topic. Interesting, but...yeah.

I thought it would be easiest to get back on topic if I just replied to the first post. *grin*
Though I, personally, feels like the Pro-Choice argument hinges on bodily integrity (I'm sure because bodily integrity is why I was fully convinced of the Pro-Choice argument myself), I can see the point you are making. Couples should do more to prevent pregnancy, so that they don't have to deal with an unintentional pregnancy to begin with. Because unintentional pregnancy really is "painting themselves into a corner," you are right about that. And, personally, I don't understand how over 40% of couples who get abortions can just not use contraceptives. The whole idea confuses me, because I don't understand why they wouldn't want to use a condom, or birth control pills, or any one of the other far, far less expensive contraceptive methods rather than paying for an abortion (not to mention that abortion has all sorts of moral and ethical issues).

I think, or at least I hope, that people who debate on the Pro-Choice side of this issue probably do use contraception properly. Because most of them have researched abortion and so also found out about contraceptions, and they know why to use them. I know that very many Pro-Choicers say they would never get an elective abortion themselves, and I know that I no longer would (though there is a point where I would have).

But there are many people who get abortions that aren't on the internet debating on the Pro-Choice side, or debating at all. I don't know if they research the issue, or even think about it fully until they are unintentionally pregnant. I guess the real issue is how to reach them. We all want there to be less abortion, and I think we can all agree that if people used contraception more often, and with fewer human errors, that there would be less pregnancy and so less abortion. Personally, I feel that better education and better access to contraceptives would help this; but I realize that I don't actually know for sure that this would work. Simply because I don't know why so many people don't use contraception - and I don't really understand what they are thinking or why they think what they do.

I do feel that adoption is a third option, beyond abortion and keeping the pregnancy and raising the resulting child. I think there are some major issues that need to be addressed with the adoption system, but private adoption (open or closed) is a very good alternative.

I wouldn't blame that completely on the system though. I recieved very good sex education, from grade 5 until grade 10. We talked about birth control, STDs (or STIs as they're now called XD I like STD better), pregnancy, stages of development of the fetus etc. But that's because I listened, was interested, so on and so forth.

That said, I remember arguing with a girl who was a grade ahead of me (she was my friend at the time) about the effects of birthcontrol. She was CONVINCED that Depo Provera was 100% effective, you absolutely could not get pregnant if you were using it.

I remember also a girl in my school and McPhee can attest to what I'm about to say, because I think he was there for this conversation. Anyway this was before she was as promiscuous but she was dating a guy and they were having sex. However they were not using any form of birthcontrol. When we asked WHY they weren't she just said "I can always get an abortion." It was a jaw dropping, wtf? moment. Seriously, I never, ever, believed those people truly existed until that moment.

Choice is a six letter word that only says so much. Pro-choice is only three letters and a symbol more.

I don't think even the Choicers should be held to the limit (and expectations) of their own name. After all, I am very vocal in my beliefs about our name and what it means.

But that raises an interesting question. Life (which is only four letters) has a lot more meaning and punch behind it then "Choice". I mean, it's one of those power words that people throw around. We even debate its definition many times! It's a harder word to be labeled with, "Pro-life" because I think the expectations, and the interpretations, vary and differentiate, THAT much more.

I can sort of understand people who don't use contraceptives and then keep their pregnancies. Sort of. I think that people should use contraception unless they are actively trying to get pregnant, but at least these people seem to understand that unprotected sex often leads to pregnancy (or maybe they don't - I don't know - I don't know anyone who has unprotected sex).

But people who get abortions, who obviously don't want to be pregnant, it just don't compute that they would not use a contraceptive method. Contraception is easier and cheaper than abortion. Far, far cheaper. I don't get it. Why would anyone have unprotected sex, then get an abortion?

I guess you're right - these are stupid people. That is the only explanation I can see.