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Mein Kulturkampf

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:09 am


ChibiLi
TyrsKat
Okay ... this is getting interesting.

....The reason you feel dirty is because a lot of Bible-beating extremists have brainwashed society into thinking that anything to do with sex is dirty....


You should post that all over the universe and get a nobel prize.

You're the first person I've ever seen who finally pointed that out 3nodding


I thought it was obvious. o_o;
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:55 pm


This should always be the right place to talk about something like that. Masturbation is a type of fornication, which God clearly labels as a sin, so yes, even once is too many times, and I find that memorizing scripture helps to dissuade urges like that, and consistently pouring more of the Spirit into yourself by reading your bible and going to church. Also, you should have somebody close to you keep you accountable.

my e-mail is sirmartyr777@yahoo.com if u wanna talk about anything else.

sirmartyr777


sirmartyr777

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:57 pm


Mein Kulturkampf
ChibiLi
TyrsKat
Okay ... this is getting interesting.

....The reason you feel dirty is because a lot of Bible-beating extremists have brainwashed society into thinking that anything to do with sex is dirty....


You should post that all over the universe and get a nobel prize.

You're the first person I've ever seen who finally pointed that out 3nodding


I thought it was obvious. o_o;


It's true that churches tend to pervert sex, but seeing as sex is a gift to be used responsibly, there is a time for it, and masturbation is a type of fornication, which God clearly labels as a sin.

But good point anyway.
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:39 pm


I am sorry but y'all are making me laugh so hard with "Masturbation is a sin" talk. If God never wanted it to exist then why do we have it? You know we have free will, we have choice, and we have the wonders of lust that comes from God. Indirectly. See if he hadn't created Lucifer and all that we wouldn't have it and since apparently God knows all the natures of things, I assume he wanted this to exist. Masturbation is part of being human, of being mortal. And a little sexual corruption in that form isn't going to send you straight to Hell. Its funny how you all say its evil. Its part of being a human, an organic being with a sex drive. Besides the only Christians I know who consider masturbation to be evil are the American ones. That right thar can be attributed to our Puritan roots. Those lovely prudes who make us a sort of joke over in Europe and the UK when we get freaked over a little sex issue. But this sort of thing is not a sin, is not going to get you sent to Hell or anything like that. And yes you can masturbate too much. And you know, fornication a sin? Well then why do we have sex beyond the whole use of propagation of the species and if you say The devil makes us do it, just don't. He don't make us do a thing. We do it ourselves.

Ricette


Zher

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:44 pm


Quote:
Some time ago, we raised the question of how Christian men reconcile masturbating with a teaching that often labels masturbation as sin. The 89 responses to our invitation provided plenty of detail for us to summarize various perspectives on masturbation by Christians. The responses came from teens and adults in various Protestant denominations as well as the Roman Catholic Church. Here is a summary of what they had to say.

The Bible & Masturbation

People who commented about the Bible believe it is silent on masturbation, even though those who preach against the practice have long interpreted verses to support their claims. The best known of these is the story of Onan, who "spilled his seed" to avoid impregnating his dead brother's wife and so God had him killed. Religious authorities who oppose masturbation have interpreted "spilling his seed" to mean that Onan masturbated. But many who have studied the story academically think it makes more sense that "spilling his seed" refers to withdrawing from intercourse before ejaculating (coitus interruptus) rather than masturbating. God punished Onan for disobeying His law, not for masturbating.

There is a general tone in Biblical scripture, particularly in the letters of Saint Paul, that we were created by God and therefore belong to Him, so that everything we do should glorify God. Our bodies are temples of God and we should respect them as such, avoiding all sorts of immoral and impure excesses. Traditional religious teaching has interpreted these concepts to include masturbation. It holds that God created sex to continue our race, so God favors only heterosexual intercourse sanctified by marriage because that is what makes babies and thus continues the race. Any other sexual behavior, such as masturbation or homosexuality, would be sinful because it leads us away from behavior that God approves.


Masturbating without lust seems to be
the biggest area of conflict for Christian men.


The Problem With Lust

Other people see the main religious problem being not so much with masturbating as with the lust that often attends it, particularly when pornography is used to aid arousal. (Lust is defined as an intense sexual desire or longing. The Greek word for lust means intensely wanting something that is forbidden.) A few respondents said that they can masturbate successfully without fantasizing about other people. They concentrate instead on their own bodies and the pleasant feelings that self-stimulation brings. But more respondents described repeatedly failing to avoid sexual fantasy. Masturbating without lust seems to be the biggest area of conflict for Christian men who seriously try to follow the teachings of their faith.

Some respondents resolve this dilemma by ignoring it — or, by reasoning that masturbation is a smaller sin than creating an unwanted pregnancy or contracting an STD. Others resolve it through the understanding of humans as imperfect and sinful by nature — it is human nature to sin, so if masturbation is a sin, then we are just being our imperfect, sinful selves. The best we can do is to pick ourselves up each time we fall and keep on trying to avoid sin. Moreover, we'd still be sinners even if we didn't masturbate.

The Catholic Church's Position

Although some religious denominations have changed their stance on masturbation as a sin, the Roman Catholic Church continues to classify the practice as mortal sin, along with any other sexual behavior that is not intercourse between a married male and female. One respondent described learning that the Church's reasoning for proscribing masturbation is based on the idea that ejaculating semen outside of a woman's v****a wastes human seed. The theory, however, does not account for the millions of sperm in an ejaculation into the v****a that die after one sperm fertilizes an ovum. Nor does it account for the millions of sperm that die within a male's body every day even when they are not ejaculated.

Our Loving God

People said that they see God as a loving God who would not have given His people the blessing of sexual pleasure and then denied them access by calling it a sin. Some used the rather specious reasoning that because God made our arms long enough to reach our genitals conveniently, He must approve of us masturbating. Many think that God intends masturbation for those who cannot satisfy their sexual needs within a marriage — teens, single adults, widows, and widowers. Other respondents think that all sexual response celebrates God — orgasm brings us into oneness with self and God in solo sex, or with self, partner, and God in partnered sex — and God likes oneness. According to this view, solo masturbation — like partnered sex — is God's gift to His people.

Learning About Masturbation

Some boys discover masturbation on their own — often as young as 3 or 4 years old and usually without attaching any word to it. The Judeo-Christian culture teaches children to hide their genitals from others, so when a young boy in this culture discovers masturbation by himself, he would naturally assume that it also should be concealed because it involves his genitals. Boys who discover masturbation by themselves often think they are the only ones in the world who do this.

Other boys learn about masturbation from friends, relatives, or observation, often near the onset of puberty. A very fortunate few people reported having a parent or other trusted adult share with them the realities of masturbation — that almost everyone does it, and that people continue to masturbate throughout their lives, even if they are in a committed relationship, verifying that the practice is common and harmless. For some respondents, discovering that many of their friends also masturbate was enough for them to conclude that if it's so common, then it couldn't be a sin. When teens hear that their parents have continued to masturbate, that serves even more to dispel the notion that masturbation is rare, weird, or sinful — even if for some teens, knowing this might give them more information than they really wanted to know about their parents.

Masturbation Versus Sexual Intercourse

Some men see married sex as God's preference for us, but they acknowledge that not everyone is ready for or can be in such a relationship. Still, single people have sexual needs. Masturbation is a way to satisfy these needs without running the risks of promiscuous partner sex — disease, pregnancy, and emotional complications. This view of masturbation may assume that in normal growth and development, masturbation is preliminary to a more mature form of sex (sexual intercourse with a partner). When a man begins to have sex with others near his age, then he would leave masturbation behind. But other married men think masturbation and sexual intercourse can coexist. Sometimes a spouse is not available for intercourse due to being ill, away, or "not in the mood." A husband's sexual drive may be stronger than his wife's, so he masturbates to balance the different needs. Even in marriage, then, some men continue to masturbate when they are temporarily single. Others, however, continue to masturbate in marriage right along with satisfying and frequent sexual relations with their spouse, seeing the two experiences as different, even though similar. Some couples agree to include masturbation and mutual masturbation into their sexual activity, often as foreplay.

Responses to some Questions of the Week have commented on the difference between sex with oneself and sex with a partner. When masturbating, a person can concentrate solely on self-pleasuring, whereas partner sex presents the challenge and satisfaction of satisfying another person as well as oneself. Moreover, a lubricated hand stimulates a p***s differently than a lubricated v****a; vaginal tissues are much smoother and softer, thus more slippery. Viewed this way, masturbation could be seen as different from intercourse, equally desirable and satisfying.

Changing Attitudes

Through the late 19th and early 20th centuries, religious institutions and the medical establishment condemned masturbation as a sinful vice that would lead to grave consequences. Around the middle of the 20th century, medical authorities began to relax their views on masturbation, seeing it as probably not harmful as long as it wasn't practiced to excess and didn't cause great feelings of guilt. In 1949, Kinsey did his famous study on human sexual behavior, which led him to estimate that upwards of 98% of all American males have masturbated at one time or another. But generations of adults had grown up with a more restrictive view of the practice inherited from earlier times, and it wasn't until the latter third of the 20th century that parents and some religious denominations began to relax their own views of masturbation.

Today, many Christian parents still take a more restrictive view of masturbation. But more and more people are coming to see it as a normal part of the human sexual response — part of the gift of sexual pleasures from God to His people, not only to continue the race, but also possibly to gather them closer to Him in the experience of orgasm.

Resources

The Bible

One respondent discussed pertinent Biblical references:
Regarding discharges of semen:
Genesis 38:7-10, the story of Onan spilling his seed
Leviticus 15:16-23, concerning regulations for cleansing from discharge of semen or menstrual flow
Regarding lustful thoughts:
Job 31:1, committing not to look lustfully at a girl
Matthew 5:28, looking lustfully at a woman means committing adultery in one's heart
Colossians 3:5, put to death what is your earthly nature; lust is idolatry
1 Thessalonians 4:4-5, learn to control your body in a holy and honorable way, not in passionate lust like the heathen
1 Peter 4:3, avoid lust, debauchery, drunkenness, and idolatry
2 Peter 2:18, beware of false prophets...who appeal to the lustful desires of sinful human nature
Regarding addiction:
2 Peter 2:19, you are a slave to whatever has mastered you
1 Corinthians 6:12, I will not be mastered by anything
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:44 am


I masturbate all the time.

Then again, I'm an atheist, so you shouldn't listen to me. xd

Orson Welles


DreXxiN

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:55 am


Why is it a sin, because God told you not to, or your corrupted local priest started some propaganda to make you beleive it was wrong based on his own ideologies?

Seriously people, grow up and get your head outta your arse, I consider myself Christian because I follow GOD, Not the people who feel they have the power to write new codes into God's law, and feel they are mighty enough to "add to his rulebook". Those who do that are really disgraceful and unappreciative.

If you claim that God did NOT intend for masturbation to exist, you are also expressing that God made an error. Do you really think he can do that? That's some faith you have.

He gave us free will so he can watch his children grow and learn from his own mistakes. Just because some "Oh I'm so holy" man tells you that it is a sin, doesn't mean it is.

I'm sorry to have ranted here, but seriously, it sickens me that more Christians can't be open minded.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:16 pm


It's funny really. Everyone always assumes that sex is dirty. It's not, in fact, The Catholic Church teaches that sex is the greatest act of self-giving love that any married man and woman can give to each other. Sex is essentially giving oneself in its entirety to the other person. To quote Pope John Paul II The Great's Theology of the Body:

Quote:

From: Theology of the Body, The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality
Author: Pope John Paul II The Great
http://www.theologyofthebody.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=70&Itemid=50&limit=1&limitstart=6

Furthermore, parents should be capable of giving their children, when necessary, a positive and serene explanation of the solid points of Christian morality such as, for example, the indissolubility of marriage and the relationship between love and procreation, as well as the immorality of premarital relations, abortion, contraception and masturbation. With regard to these immoral situations that contradict the meaning of giving in marriage, it is also good to recall that: "The two dimensions of conjugal union, the unitive and the procreative, cannot be artificially separated without damaging the deepest truth of the conjugal act itself". In this regard, an in-depth and reflective knowledge of the documents of the Church dealing with these problems will be of valuable assistance to parents.

103. Masturbation particularly constitutes a very serious disorder that is illicit in itself and cannot be morally justified, although "the immaturity of adolescence (which can sometimes persist after that age), psychological imbalance or habit can influence behaviour, diminishing the deliberate character of the act and bringing about a situation whereby subjectively there may not always be serious fault". Therefore, adolescents should be helped to overcome manifestations of this disorder, which often express the inner conflicts of their age and, in many cases, a selfish vision of sexuality.


Quote:

From: Theology of the Body, The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality
Author: Pope John Paul II The Great
http://www.theologyofthebody.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=70&Itemid=50&limit=1&limitstart=1


14. When love is lived out in marriage, it includes and surpasses friendship. Love between a man and woman is achieved when they give themselves totally, each in turn according to their own masculinity and femininity, founding on the marriage covenant that communion of persons where God has willed that human life be conceived, grow and develop. To this married love, and to this love alone, belongs sexual giving, "realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and a woman commit themselves totally to one another until death". The Catechism of the Catholic Church recalls: "In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament".


Intrinsically, the problem with masturbation is that in it our body speaks a language. In fact, our body speaks a language every day of our life. The language of sex is this, "I give myself to you entirely..." (Theology of the Body, Pope JP II The Great) including reproduction. So, case in point, you can't give yourself to yourself and reproduce. That's why it's considered wrong. Sex is not merely some mystical force in our bodies, in fact, Pope JP II The Great says that sexuality is the reason we exist. It is not unnecessary, gender and sexuality are arbitrary and necessary for our existence, they are an intrinsic part of our being. Also, we find in the bible that Onan spilled his seed on the ground and was punished by God for it. There you have it. There's biblical proof as much as there is proof from one of the greatest modern philosophers of our time.

CCubed


cuda469

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:37 pm


it's hard to stop after you've crossed certain lines in life. it's all about self-control.(easier said than done). lusts, habits and addictions are human nature. you can be addicted to and lust after many things..sex, drugs, alcohol,caffiene,cigarettes,computer,reading,gossip,clothes,exercise,daydreaming,video games,t.v.,...
masterbation is a form of fornication and lust- even if you aren't thinking about another person. our bodies are" temples ". it defiles our bodies, minds, hearts, and spirits. it takes our focus away from God and Jesus.
find an activity to replace this "idle" time and focus on--such as a physical or exercise activity, pray and read your scriptures, attend church and fellowship activities, pray and ask God,in the name of Jesus, for help, try your best to stop!
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:05 pm


There is no penalty masturbating, and I think touching one's self, as long as it's not obsessive (which is the REAL sin in my opinion) is more of a learning experience than "defiling one's temple".

I can assure you I've masturbated, and most likely will go to heaven; I don't think I've ANGERED God by having done it once and awhile.

Remember, one of the very reasons we worship him is for the freedom he has given us to learn and grow in life based on our own actions.

Quote:
Also, we find in the bible that Onan spilled his seed on the ground and was punished by God for it.


People have been punished for senseless violence in the biblical era as well, yet Hitler has not been divinely punished for killing 6 million Jews.

DreXxiN


CCubed

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:30 am


DreXxiN
There is no penalty masturbating, and I think touching one's self, as long as it's not obsessive (which is the REAL sin in my opinion) is more of a learning experience than "defiling one's temple".

I can assure you I've masturbated, and most likely will go to heaven; I don't think I've ANGERED God by having done it once and awhile.

Remember, one of the very reasons we worship him is for the freedom he has given us to learn and grow in life based on our own actions.

Quote:
Also, we find in the bible that Onan spilled his seed on the ground and was punished by God for it.


People have been punished for senseless violence in the biblical era as well, yet Hitler has not been divinely punished for killing 6 million Jews.


Punishments aren't always doled out in the temporal world.
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:21 pm


CCubed
DreXxiN
There is no penalty masturbating, and I think touching one's self, as long as it's not obsessive (which is the REAL sin in my opinion) is more of a learning experience than "defiling one's temple".

I can assure you I've masturbated, and most likely will go to heaven; I don't think I've ANGERED God by having done it once and awhile.

Remember, one of the very reasons we worship him is for the freedom he has given us to learn and grow in life based on our own actions.

Quote:
Also, we find in the bible that Onan spilled his seed on the ground and was punished by God for it.


People have been punished for senseless violence in the biblical era as well, yet Hitler has not been divinely punished for killing 6 million Jews.


Punishments aren't always doled out in the temporal world.


Doesn't sound like justice if you ask me. =/

DreXxiN


CCubed

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:38 pm


DreXxiN
CCubed
DreXxiN
There is no penalty masturbating, and I think touching one's self, as long as it's not obsessive (which is the REAL sin in my opinion) is more of a learning experience than "defiling one's temple".

I can assure you I've masturbated, and most likely will go to heaven; I don't think I've ANGERED God by having done it once and awhile.

Remember, one of the very reasons we worship him is for the freedom he has given us to learn and grow in life based on our own actions.

Quote:
Also, we find in the bible that Onan spilled his seed on the ground and was punished by God for it.


People have been punished for senseless violence in the biblical era as well, yet Hitler has not been divinely punished for killing 6 million Jews.


Punishments aren't always doled out in the temporal world.


Doesn't sound like justice if you ask me. =/


Justice doesn't just apply to this world. Think of it this way, which is longer, suffering 100 years or suffering eternity?
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:04 pm


You are a fool if you think someone is going to suffer for trying to learn their body. Stop being so ignorant, and on a final note, no one is going to go to hell for this.

Regardless if we masturbate, execreting semen is NATURAL! It's going to happen anyway and that's why we masturbate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_dreams

Educate yourself. Also, try to open up your mind instead of being handfed by your puppeteers you call "religious elders."

You can be Christian and still have your own thoughts you know.



On a second note, since some people on this forum seem to lack the maturity to see everything for what it is and read EVERYTHING someone says instead of skimming through and saying "wut thats not right lol", I'll repeat it again. Part of the reason we worship the Lord is for having our own free will to learn from our own mistakes.

And if you want to play that childish little game of "What's the better of the two, this or this?"

Well I suppose what if someone has a masturbation disorder, and wants to do the greater of the two goods, so he releives himself instead of commiting adultry against his wife. Eh?

I really don't mean to offend but open up your mind. People can be forgiven of their sins, and the way you put it, it's "OMG, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL IF U MASTURBATE THARZ NUTHIN U KEN DO LOLOL".
One thing buddy, communion.

You are a sinner too, thus you have no right to tell me how I'll be judged based off of such an insignificant evil.

DreXxiN

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*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

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