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 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:21 pm
That's a very good description. It's a well respected and well reputed classic. But I disagree with you just a little.
I don't think Lolita "escaped" H.H. She wasn't abducted by the pornographer either. She ran away, which I thought was a little treasonous. H.H. never did anything that bad to her, and he definitely loved her.
Sure his obsession is perverse, but there were a lot of complications. She's the one who seduced him, he wasn't even her first, she manipulated him while they were travelling America togethor, etc.
But that's totally off-topic and probably just me being a romantic. Anyways,
Ultimately the name Lolita (as used in the book) was skewed to make a slang for promiscuous young girls, which was then skewed to make the name for the fashion subculture. So it gets mighty confusing.
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:03 pm
Sailor Jerry I don't think Lolita "escaped" H.H. She wasn't abducted by the pornographer either. She ran away, which I thought was a little treasonous. H.H. never did anything that bad to her, and he definitely loved her. I meant an escape first from Quilty and to say that she escaped from that lifestyle as a whole-- not that she escaped from Humbert. I also used the term abduction as that is what it's always been referred to in any formal discussions I've heard or been a part of, as well as in most summaries. Legally speaking, if a child (which she still was at the time, as I use the term as meaning anyone under 18, and she was in early early teen years) runs away with an adult, it still counts towards abduction by the adult. It does not matter that the child willingly went with the abductor-- you'd be surprised how many people are willing to follow someone, when they're ever subtly manipulated into trusting and eventually thinking they care for someone, even if all they want is, say, to screw around with them and try and put them in one of their pornos. There's also the note that Quilty was a character of similar obsessions as Humbert-- she was only choosing one of two evils, and chose whichever seemed less of a threat, the one she thought loved her more genuinely and the one she thought she loved.
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:31 pm
Ah, very valid. I wasn't trying to pick apart your description of the book or anything, I'm just kid of a sucker for Humbert, and feel bad for the way a lot of people portrey him. He tends to get a bad rap.
Like, have you noticed how a lot of Lolitas, because they don't want to be associated with the Lolita complex, basically refer to the novel as pornography?
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:00 pm
I didn't take any offense to anything. 3nodding I'm so used to talking about things in a technical sense that I don't always take into account how someone else may interpret it.
I think that too many people as a whole refer to the novel as pornography, not even just other Lolitas. I think that people overreacted entirely to the book and its content, and blew it so out of the water-- which is how the word "Lolita" ended up with the severly negative connotation. The book and the fashion have nothing to do with endorsing things like that. XD The book's about the consequences, and the fashion is about modesty and frilly childlike innocence.
A better way to go about things would be, instead of calling the book porn, to explain the book as it's meant to be and more importantly explain the fashion as it's meant to be. There's really no need to go to extremes on anything. Most people really aren't that hostile once it's explained that they did not take the term Lolita from that and what the ideals actually are. And then, if they press and nag on the book, explain what the book actually is.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:43 pm
Does anyone know when it's suppose to come out?
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:46 pm
EuthanasiaOfSanity Does anyone know when it's suppose to come out?
February. Like the original G&L Bibles, it's going to be a seasonal thing, I believe.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.-
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:06 pm
There should be a pre-release page with information about the second volume, since people have already been reserving their copies for both apparently. I can only find the Tokyopop page for the first volume, though. So. We'll see.
Should be seasonal, though. Like Amani said.
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:14 am
With February right around the corner, I'm feeling sick to my stomach. TokyoPop is going to overrun my safe haven (because being lolita is my safety net. And Angel pretty is retail therapy at its best) with a bunch of newbies who are going to make being loli hell.
I hate TokyoPop! Who put the idea of translating the G&L Bible into their heads?! Either way, I'm dreading this release.
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:17 am
To be honest, I don't see them "overrunning" lolita in the least. They might make a few cosplayers want to tack lace onto ever piece of clothing, or wear cat ear-headbands with lace trim more often, but I doubt that this release will have much of an effect on the actual realm of lolita unless it's an amazing translation and adaptation.
There are always going to be people who do it right, just like there will always be people who do it wrong. In the beginning, I was very critical of this release of the G&LB, but now I'm starting to regain a little bit of hope because a few of the submission previews have actually gone beyond the realm of "not sucking" into that area of "hey, this is actually pretty cool". Provided that they continue listening to the staff members who know what they're doing, and the lolitas that they've contacted elsewhere, things should improve with time.
I just really hope they nixed that "cosplay" section they suggested they were making to put in there.
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:28 pm
boconnotto
I just really hope they nixed that "cosplay" section they suggested they were making to put in there.
??? why on earth was there going to be a cosplay section to begin with...? now I have mixed feelings about the release :/ instead of just dreading it guess we'll just have to wait and see....
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:42 am
Wasn't it supposed to be released like, last week? Its on Border's site, so I think its out.
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:30 am
Geez, I wish I knew there were Lolita panels. I mean I knew there was the Gothic and Lolita Bible thing going on..but uhh. I'm kind of turned off by the whole thing. I would have went to your panel Amanikitty. I was too busy stalking Voltaire >_>;
Though...the last time I went to a panel on Japanese fashion..it just reeked of fail. The two girls running the panel seemed to have no idea what they were talking about, and when someone wanted to discuss something, they'd just change the subject. on top of that, they were in cosplay ._. and had small little picture diagrams no one could see....anyway, it would have been nice to see a panel run by someone who actually knew something. I think the audience knew a lot more than they did XD;
Anyway, perhaps I missed it while reading the thread...Blasphemia's Closet? Is that what they were selling in the dealer's room? They looked nice from afrar, but then when I got close, I saw how shitty it was. And felt the material..>_> and then saw it was soo much. I saw a few people on Sunday wearing the dresses..with jeans and sneakers. >_>;;
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:31 am
TalaRayne boconnotto
I just really hope they nixed that "cosplay" section they suggested they were making to put in there.
??? why on earth was there going to be a cosplay section to begin with...? now I have mixed feelings about the release :/ instead of just dreading it guess we'll just have to wait and see.... They're trying to make it so they get all the anime fans and cosplayers into buying their books >_>;
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:50 pm
The Zombie Gigolo Geez, I wish I knew there were Lolita panels. I mean I knew there was the Gothic and Lolita Bible thing going on..but uhh. I'm kind of turned off by the whole thing. I would have went to your panel Amanikitty. I was too busy stalking Voltaire >_>; Though...the last time I went to a panel on Japanese fashion..it just reeked of fail. The two girls running the panel seemed to have no idea what they were talking about, and when someone wanted to discuss something, they'd just change the subject. on top of that, they were in cosplay ._. and had small little picture diagrams no one could see....anyway, it would have been nice to see a panel run by someone who actually knew something. I think the audience knew a lot more than they did XD; Anyway, perhaps I missed it while reading the thread...Blasphemia's Closet? Is that what they were selling in the dealer's room? They looked nice from afrar, but then when I got close, I saw how shitty it was. And felt the material..>_> and then saw it was soo much. I saw a few people on Sunday wearing the dresses..with jeans and sneakers. >_>;;
xD HAH. At least you SAW Voltaire. >>; If you were there on Sunday, you probably saw me running around in heels and panicking D;.
We did bad though. Not in the sense that we were presenting a bunch of fail, but since it was our first actual panel we were really nervous and trying to hurry and get through with it. Other than that we didn't have my PPpresentation that I worked on because of last minute problems. ;_;
But, we're gonna try and do much better this year, once we find when the official date is. >>; I'm already hounding the program director for spots. If Tokyopop ever tries to come and jump in on my panel plans again, it's not going to work this time because we're working to have the Lolita events on at least 2 or 3 days instead of just one. But I think compared to Tokyopop ours were much more better. As far as I've heard (I was only there on Sunday but some other lolitas were there all days) hardly anyone as looking at their presentation until they decided to pull out free gifts and whatnot. But then again they didn't have an actual panel room. But with our panel, only 4-5 people walked out but for the most part the panel room was pretty full and even after we had given out lottery lolita items (headdresses, etc. in gift bags), people didn't leave right away and they collected the skirt and bow tutorials/patterns we had made copies of.
It was overall a good experience. :3
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.-
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:21 pm
Amanikitty The Zombie Gigolo Geez, I wish I knew there were Lolita panels. I mean I knew there was the Gothic and Lolita Bible thing going on..but uhh. I'm kind of turned off by the whole thing. I would have went to your panel Amanikitty. I was too busy stalking Voltaire >_>; Though...the last time I went to a panel on Japanese fashion..it just reeked of fail. The two girls running the panel seemed to have no idea what they were talking about, and when someone wanted to discuss something, they'd just change the subject. on top of that, they were in cosplay ._. and had small little picture diagrams no one could see....anyway, it would have been nice to see a panel run by someone who actually knew something. I think the audience knew a lot more than they did XD; Anyway, perhaps I missed it while reading the thread...Blasphemia's Closet? Is that what they were selling in the dealer's room? They looked nice from afrar, but then when I got close, I saw how shitty it was. And felt the material..>_> and then saw it was soo much. I saw a few people on Sunday wearing the dresses..with jeans and sneakers. >_>;;
xD HAH. At least you SAW Voltaire. >>; If you were there on Sunday, you probably saw me running around in heels and panicking D;.
We did bad though. Not in the sense that we were presenting a bunch of fail, but since it was our first actual panel we were really nervous and trying to hurry and get through with it. Other than that we didn't have my PPpresentation that I worked on because of last minute problems. ;_;
But, we're gonna try and do much better this year, once we find when the official date is. >>; I'm already hounding the program director for spots. If Tokyopop ever tries to come and jump in on my panel plans again, it's not going to work this time because we're working to have the Lolita events on at least 2 or 3 days instead of just one. But I think compared to Tokyopop ours were much more better. As far as I've heard (I was only there on Sunday but some other lolitas were there all days) hardly anyone as looking at their presentation until they decided to pull out free gifts and whatnot. But then again they didn't have an actual panel room. But with our panel, only 4-5 people walked out but for the most part the panel room was pretty full and even after we had given out lottery lolita items (headdresses, etc. in gift bags), people didn't leave right away and they collected the skirt and bow tutorials/patterns we had made copies of.
It was overall a good experience. :3
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.- ugh I had my whole response typed out, then my laptop crapped out on me. x_x aw you didn't get to see Voltaire D: you must have really been running around. He had his booth in the dealer's room Powerpoint presentation eh? Thats cool, even if you didn't have it, I think its cool you had one ready. I'm sure you guys dressed the part, so you atleast had that. The people who ran the panel I went to at another con wore cosplay outfits. ^^; I don't see why the con couldn't have had yours and Tokyopop's on different days instead of Tokyopop raiding yours. But I guess since it was NYAF's first year, things were a bit disorganized. I think its awesome you gave out prizes :] thats a great way to keep people in the panel AND you even handed out patterns. I think thats awesome. Next year I will definitely go to your panel :]
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