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 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:03 pm
WatersMoon110 divineseraph Given the multitude of options available, abortion... Well, following very similar logical process... I wouldn't call Open Adoption, Closed Adoption, and Giving Birth and Raise a Child a "multitude of options" but I see what you are getting at, I think. I really like debating with you. Right now I'm avoiding reading about the Book of Revelation (for my New Testament class) and I smiled when I saw that you had replied to me! Someday, soon I hope, there will be Fetal Transplant/Fetal Adoption, which will give the woman another immediate choice to abortion (rather than carrying the pregnancy to term and then making a choice). *grin* And when that happens, I will agree that elective abortion should no longer be an option. But, you know, for now I really can't see how it would be ethical to make abortion illegal. I understand that you feel the protection of life should be the most important, but in this case I feel that the protection of bodily integrity should trump that. I think we've basically come to the point where we must agree to disagree. Thank you. But I feel that, since there are ways to not get pregnant in the first place (though not at all fool-proof) and there are things to do after getting pregnant aside from killing the fetus, abortion is not necessary. At least, aside from cases of life and death and possibly rape, as there was not neccesarily a way to prevent a pregnancy from rape. I see contraceptive use and birth control as kind of another option like adoption- not getting pregnant in the first place, thus no need to kill a fetus. Edit- sorry for growling at you a few posts back, I was feeling a little short of temper at the time for no real reason. Maybe I needed caffine.
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:10 pm
Why inclued rape?
A fetus is still a fetus no matter what, having the fetus conceived cause of rape isn't going to make it any less living or human.
Unless something is wrong with the mother or baby I still don't find it necessary to abort it. It's not the babies fault so why punish it?
And even if they aborted it, it's not going to make the whole situation go away or will they recover from it just cause of abortion (they need serious counseling to help get over it).
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:56 am
sachiko_sohma Why inclued rape? A fetus is still a fetus no matter what, having the fetus conceived cause of rape isn't going to make it any less living or human. Unless something is wrong with the mother or baby I still don't find it necessary to abort it. It's not the babies fault so why punish it? And even if they aborted it, it's not going to make the whole situation go away or will they recover from it just cause of abortion (they need serious counseling to help get over it). As someone who did get pregnant from rape (though, I did not choose to have an abortion, one was, literally, forced upon me) I would say that being forced to carry a pregnancy conceived through rape would have been far more traumatic than just being raped, for me. However, there are brave women who do manage to do just that, so it's really just a matter of the woman in question, and her choice (to me, at least - but I am Pro-Choice after all).
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:05 am
divineseraph Thank you. But I feel that, since there are ways to not get pregnant in the first place (though not at all fool-proof) and there are things to do after getting pregnant aside from killing the fetus, abortion is not necessary. At least, aside from cases of life and death and possibly rape, as there was not neccesarily a way to prevent a pregnancy from rape. I see contraceptive use and birth control as kind of another option like adoption- not getting pregnant in the first place, thus no need to kill a fetus. Edit- sorry for growling at you a few posts back, I was feeling a little short of temper at the time for no real reason. Maybe I needed caffine. I completely agree. Everyone having sex should be using contraceptives if they aren't actively trying to get pregnant. I wish there were some way to force stupid people to do so. *grin* But I don't really consider that another option because, without a time machine, you can't go back and use contraceptive once you become unintentionally pregnant. It is a very good idea to try to prevent pregnancy, but once a woman is pregnant it is no longer an option. I really want to know percentages of how many women of the (let's see 54% used birth control in the month they got pregnant, if we assume that the 14% who used condoms properly and the 13% who used the pill properly don't overlap, then that would be 27% who didn't use their contraceptive properly) 27% who didn't report proper contraceptive use reported something like forgetting a pill and who was using a condom one times out of ten, or something like that. And really, why on Earth are 46% of women (assuming that the same percentage of people just having sex as those getting abortions, hopefully this is far lower since using contraceptives usually prevents pregnancy, not to mention that most women keep their pregnancies) not using any contraception? *grrr*
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:24 am
Yes, stronger focus should be put on getting people on contraceptives, it is far better than abortion and I'm sure that all but the most incorrect (Biologically) conservatives would agree. (Considering that an argument is that every sperm is sacred, yet sperm die and renew themselves once every, two weeks is it?)
But if the problem is pregnancy- Abortion is a solution (Not a very good one, in my opinion, I've never been one for killing), adoption is a solution, and not getting pregnant in the first place is a solution. That option goes away once you DO get pregnant, of course, but the idea behind contraceptive use is to not get pregnant and should not be excluded as a solution to the problem of unwanted pregnancy.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:44 am
WatersMoon110 sachiko_sohma Why inclued rape? A fetus is still a fetus no matter what, having the fetus conceived cause of rape isn't going to make it any less living or human. Unless something is wrong with the mother or baby I still don't find it necessary to abort it. It's not the babies fault so why punish it? And even if they aborted it, it's not going to make the whole situation go away or will they recover from it just cause of abortion (they need serious counseling to help get over it). As someone who did get pregnant from rape (though, I did not choose to have an abortion, one was, literally, forced upon me) I would say that being forced to carry a pregnancy conceived through rape would have been far more traumatic than just being raped, for me. However, there are brave women who do manage to do just that, so it's really just a matter of the woman in question, and her choice (to me, at least - but I am Pro-Choice after all). I'm sorry to hear that but still it's a difficult situation and still not sure what to think about aborting cause of rape. To me, yes I would probly be traumatized if I got pregnant due to rape but I would probly be more traumatized aborting the baby. To me, it's still a living human, no different from all the other fetuses.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:59 pm
sachiko_sohma I'm sorry to hear that but still it's a difficult situation and still not sure what to think about aborting cause of rape. To me, yes I would probly be traumatized if I got pregnant due to rape but I would probly be more traumatized aborting the baby. To me, it's still a living human, no different from all the other fetuses. I understand that, which is why I don't really understand why someone would be Pro-Life, but want an exception for rape. If unborn humans should get the right to trump a woman's right to bodily integrity, all of them should (so long as the woman's life isn't in danger). But, for me, though the method of abortion was very traumatizing, still raising a child born from rape with that person would be horrible (actually, that's not exactly true in that I would have killed myself rather than have carried that pregnancy to term). I don't think so, but it is possible that knowing that such a child existed being raised by someone else might be hard to deal with as well. You are already against abortion, and wouldn't get one. So of course any abortion would be traumatizing for you. But not all people feel that way.
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