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 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:52 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:53 pm
Typhoon_Omi Now, if you want to prove me wrong so badly, and haven't already, head into the Barton Branch and let's hope you and me are paired up. Otherwise, neow. I understand. Because backing your statements isn't a priority. I won't submit anymore characters. I only have two. One in Barton and one in Commerce. I don't take pride in playing any more characters but ones that resemble myself. So... okay.. excuses accepted.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:53 pm
Neow, my bondage'd friend. 
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:53 pm
Crawleymang~ We have people who think that life is fair. And all fights are fair. Therefore they have the chance to beat a heavyweight UFC fighter. Because any fight can be won by either side. Even when you are staring down the barrels of 5 fully automatic rifles. Eh, since when does Roleplaying = Life? And, it's one of Omi's endearing character trait terms for "No."
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:53 pm
XShilonX Yes, in Roleplays, it is. The Angsty Mouse should have just as much power as the Super Psychic Megawizard, because otherwise is cheating. Pure, raw, unabashed, Cheating. Role-Playing battles' conclusions should solely be based around the writer's ability to adapt the character and his/her powers to win in the situation. Sure, the Megawizard can blow up the mouse in a single strike. That is- if he can HIT the mouse. You act as if the only thing that matters is 'How many magical abilities can they pull off?' You forget that all sorts of simple things play into battle. Size, Speed, Passion, Strength, the list goes on and on. They're all equally important, so just because Joe Schmoe can blow up an entire plane of existance and then fry your brain doesn't make Angsty Mouse dead before the battle begins, like the Tier System says it should be. Tiers aren't 100%. They dicate chance and effort. A low-tier CAN beat a high-tier character - IF the low-tier character's owner is playing at their best while the high-tier character's owner is a moron who's having a bad day and smoking LSD while typing with his nose, and the low-tier character gets lucky while the judge isn't looking too closely. Guess what? CHARACTER DESIGN IS A PART OF RP, AND THEREFORE ALL CHARACTERS WILL NOT BE EQUAL.Kellindel No. Sorry, but you're just wrong. It is always possible to win a fight. Doesn't matter how small your chance is, you can ALWAYS win. I don't care whether it be a one in a million shot, pyromancer throws a rock and hits her opponent in the temple. Thats why life is interesting. In any competition you can never truly predict the outcome. Putting it out of the context of a tournament bout only increases ones chance of winning. They could always run away, wait until the other person is asleep, and make sure they never wake up. We're talking realistically, here. Running away isn't winning, most characters don't sleep, and one-in-a-million shots don't happen in RP. As for nailing someone with a rock, count the fact that defense is a part of tier too. XShilonX And, Nay. With the angsty mouse I could make a series of things happen using only speed and size to where the Psychic wouldn't possibly be able to focus on them all, and even if so, they'd keep arising until a draw was called. Not really. Mice don't have much speed and their size isn't small enough to make much difference against a mage. Unless you're giving the mouse super-speed - IN WHICH CASE YOU ARE INCREASING ITS POWER AND ITS TIER. Typhoon_Omi You assume that raw power, be it physical or magical, makes the mold of the match. That is not the case. Let's say, we just had the angsty mouse and the wizard fight. And the mouse managed to bite said wizard before the GRAND WIZARD cooked him into non-existance. The mouse may spread a disease onto said wizard, and despite how grand said magic user is, he is still of flesh and blood - and dies in the long run because of an illness, a mere mouse gave him. Any battle is winnable by any side, power is only one factor of many. You're assuming, again. You're right, raw power isn't the only factor. How about technique? Suppose the wizard DODGES the mouse's attack? Suppose the wizard levitates two feet above the ground while casting the spell? Suppose the wizard ISN'T of flesh and blood? Suppose the wizard kicks the mouse away? Suppose the wizard casts a barrier spell first? I guarantee you that the Angsty Mouse cannot beat any of my high-tier characters. Typhoon_Omi Because so far, you've given no evidence to your claims, and have been disproven by multiple people at every refute you give. Typhoon_Omi Besides the fact that you're not applying your "logic" to a battle situation, the guy's battle was BEFORE the capture & execution; and people HAVE escaped executions in worse conditions before, be it from outside help or no, in history before. I was under the impression that to "disprove" something, you have to give proof of your own.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:54 pm
Shouyin That doesn't make the conversation any less Ertai-inspired.
Ertai shoots his mouth off on page five*, two hundred pages later we have an ultra ******** chaos theory.
* I'unno if he really did. That wasn't the point. You said that someone (can't remember who) must care about Ertai since he was talking about him. I disagreed because people regularly talk about things they don't like. Shouyin Then the leader's account is doubted.
If the judge is using it, who else might be?
There is always a loophole that equals distrust.
I've proven my point, and you're not gaining any ground.
As to the whole 'there's always a chance somebody can win', that's bullshit.
Sure a plane could fall on the wizard before the mouse is killed, but the odds aren't acceptable.
And this is an RP environment, where everything of that nature is controlled.
I could make a character, and never RP him sleeping.
Therefore, you can never catch him in his sleep.
Every argument you try and bring up is useless. It only drags out the conflict until you can find some pointless opening in their statements to blow out of proportion. God I don't like you. The judge can be questioned about such. I'm not saying everyone has to like it all the time. I'm trying to make it legitimate and/or remove as many possibilities of underhandedness that I can. And if someone isn't open to the idea of a character beating theirs then they shouldn't even be fighting. I like discussing this kind of stuff on occasion. If you don't well then thats your problem. Don't like whats being talked about and no one wants to talk about anything else then maybe you should just go somewhere else. And you probably shouldn't take any philosophy or logical debate courses with that mentality. You argued with me, I wasn't even speaking with you before you said I was wrong.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:55 pm
Crawleymang~ I understand. Because backing your statements isn't a priority. I won't submit anymore characters. I only have two. One in Barton and one in Commerce. I don't take pride in playing any more characters but ones that resemble myself. So... okay.. excuses.
"OMFG MY c**k BIGER THAN URSZ!!! LOL OWEJNDD!" ..?
Also, I don't know nor trust you, so forgive me if I don't believe you'd use this, somehow, against me. Sorry, no. Meet me in the Barton tournament with the character submitted, or oh well.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:56 pm
XShilonX Eh, since when does Roleplaying = Life? And, it's one of Omi's endearing character trait terms for "No." Not everything is fair period. Therefore.. Tiers = truth.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:58 pm
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:59 pm
Crawleymang~ We have people who think that life is fair. And all fights are fair. Therefore they have the chance to beat a heavyweight UFC fighter. Because any fight can be won by either side. Even when you are staring down the barrels of 5 fully automatic rifles. Lol no.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:59 pm
Excelent points Binatica. However, I'm tired of fighting, and after calming down a bit', have realized: The TRUE reason the Tier System is Bullshit? Is because it's useless- No RP'er in their right mind would ever make a serious character that is so many 'tiers' lower than their opponent. If your character is a lower-tier? It's only by miniscule amounts, and with THAT margin, it no longer matters. Which brings us back to the RP'ers skill. The defense concedes that the Mouse can not beat the Super Mage.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:00 pm
Binatica XShilonX Yes, in Roleplays, it is. The Angsty Mouse should have just as much power as the Super Psychic Megawizard, because otherwise is cheating. Pure, raw, unabashed, Cheating. Role-Playing battles' conclusions should solely be based around the writer's ability to adapt the character and his/her powers to win in the situation. Sure, the Megawizard can blow up the mouse in a single strike. That is- if he can HIT the mouse. You act as if the only thing that matters is 'How many magical abilities can they pull off?' You forget that all sorts of simple things play into battle. Size, Speed, Passion, Strength, the list goes on and on. They're all equally important, so just because Joe Schmoe can blow up an entire plane of existance and then fry your brain doesn't make Angsty Mouse dead before the battle begins, like the Tier System says it should be. Tiers aren't 100%. They dicate chance and effort. A low-tier CAN beat a high-tier character - IF the low-tier character's owner is playing at their best while the high-tier character's owner is a moron who's having a bad day and smoking LSD while typing with his nose, and the low-tier character gets lucky while the judge isn't looking too closely. Guess what? CHARACTER DESIGN IS A PART OF RP, AND THEREFORE ALL CHARACTERS WILL NOT BE EQUAL.Kellindel No. Sorry, but you're just wrong. It is always possible to win a fight. Doesn't matter how small your chance is, you can ALWAYS win. I don't care whether it be a one in a million shot, pyromancer throws a rock and hits her opponent in the temple. Thats why life is interesting. In any competition you can never truly predict the outcome. Putting it out of the context of a tournament bout only increases ones chance of winning. They could always run away, wait until the other person is asleep, and make sure they never wake up. We're talking realistically, here. Running away isn't winning, most characters don't sleep, and one-in-a-million shots don't happen in RP. As for nailing someone with a rock, count the fact that defense is a part of tier too. XShilonX And, Nay. With the angsty mouse I could make a series of things happen using only speed and size to where the Psychic wouldn't possibly be able to focus on them all, and even if so, they'd keep arising until a draw was called. Not really. Mice don't have much speed and their size isn't small enough to make much difference against a mage. Unless you're giving the mouse super-speed - IN WHICH CASE YOU ARE INCREASING ITS POWER AND ITS TIER. Typhoon_Omi You assume that raw power, be it physical or magical, makes the mold of the match. That is not the case. Let's say, we just had the angsty mouse and the wizard fight. And the mouse managed to bite said wizard before the GRAND WIZARD cooked him into non-existance. The mouse may spread a disease onto said wizard, and despite how grand said magic user is, he is still of flesh and blood - and dies in the long run because of an illness, a mere mouse gave him. Any battle is winnable by any side, power is only one factor of many. You're assuming, again. You're right, raw power isn't the only factor. How about technique? Suppose the wizard DODGES the mouse's attack? Suppose the wizard levitates two feet above the ground while casting the spell? Suppose the wizard ISN'T of flesh and blood? Suppose the wizard kicks the mouse away? Suppose the wizard casts a barrier spell first? I guarantee you that the Angsty Mouse cannot beat any of my high-tier characters. Typhoon_Omi Because so far, you've given no evidence to your claims, and have been disproven by multiple people at every refute you give. Typhoon_Omi Besides the fact that you're not applying your "logic" to a battle situation, the guy's battle was BEFORE the capture & execution; and people HAVE escaped executions in worse conditions before, be it from outside help or no, in history before. I was under the impression that to "disprove" something, you have to give proof of your own.
No, not all characters are equal by design. But any given character can win in any given situation. You are stating that no, the "angsty mouse" [a poor example, may I add] cannot beat any of your "high tier" [FIGHTER TERMS OWN!] characters. Yet, until you battle, you yourself have no proof of this. Did I say the mouse was guranteed to win, or had a high chance of winning? Absolutely not, I acknowledge that he's at a disadvantage.
But, you merely changed the factors of the mage to overwhelm the mouse, when there's no gurantee that given mage'd have any of the above. Or, that the mage would even notice the mouse, if they were "battling", since it's unlikely in a serious roleplay, for a random mouse and a wizard of epic porportions to battle. There's still a chance the mouse can win, depending on other factors.
I see no reason to give "proof" to "disprove" others, because so far, I've been given no "proof" of you or the other guy's claims either. This will remain opinion on both our sides, I'm afraid - and we will both believe ourselves definite and correct, regardless of what is said.
Even in a battle situation, if your "high tierrrr" character managed to bet my "low tier", does that automatically prove me wrong? No, it merely means your high tier bested mine, it doesn't rule out that the low tier could have won.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:00 pm
Binatica We're talking realistically, here. Running away isn't winning, most characters don't sleep, and one-in-a-million shots don't happen in RP. As for nailing someone with a rock, count the fact that defense is a part of tier too. How an attack is defended lies in the creativity of the writer, not necessarily on the abilities of the character.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:01 pm
Crawleymang~ I fail. Editing quotes to make myself feel special is how I turn around losing arguements.
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:02 pm
XShilonX The TRUE reason the Tier System is Bullshit? Is because it's useless- No RP'er in their right mind would ever make a serious character that is so many 'tiers' lower than their opponent.[/img] That doesn't make it bullshit. There are plenty of people with simple human characters. What makes them different is that they are smart... and do not try to fight people who are so many tiers above them.
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