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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:22 pm
In another guild I'm in, we use grapples a lot (it's to the abuse-level sweatdrop ) It's probably because it uses the basic attack formula though. So the fact that this was a skill is probably why grapples were never seen in Shima imo.
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:44 pm
Eh, all I can say is I disagree, but no point in arguing if I'm outvoted. I see it as necessary for non strength skills, like Nara jutsu, orochimaru's snake hands, and a number of just that suppress an opponent. I was working on it with xyn where I was gonna combine it with the old rope skill to make a tying up combat style.
I guess I'm thinking as someone who has no intension of learning tai or training strength. It would be the only physical skill I see xyn learning.
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Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:06 am
Semblance Eh, all I can say is I disagree, but no point in arguing if I'm outvoted. I see it as necessary for non strength skills, like Nara jutsu, orochimaru's snake hands, and a number of just that suppress an opponent. I was working on it with xyn where I was gonna combine it with the old rope skill to make a tying up combat style. I guess I'm thinking as someone who has no intension of learning tai or training strength. It would be the only physical skill I see xyn learning.
As you can see here, the Nara jutsu is classified as Ninjutsu.
And here, even Orochimaru's snake hands are classified as Ninjutsu.
So as a special part of the technique in question, you would either be holding with your Strength Mod or your Wisdom Mod. Then the target of the jutsu would just need to roll a defensive check against that jutsu.
This is just a quick and dirty example of what one of the grapple replacements would look like. Since it is Ninjutsu, you would avoid the initial cast with Dodge. I've seen plenty of shinobi in the anime use a dodging motion to avoid this attack:Quote: Shadow Imitation Technique [Kagemane no Jutsu] Allows the user to extend their shadow on any surface and as far as they want as long as there is a sufficient area. Once it comes into contact with a target's shadow, the two merge and the target is forced to imitate the user's movements. Cp Cost: 10+5 per holding post Damage: None Requirements: Must be taught. Seals: Rat Special: If the attack makes contact, the target is trapped for 1+1d4 posts. Trapped characters may not attack or escape, but they may still speak. Escape DC: 10 + Caster's Wis Mod. Target may add either their Str Mod or Wis Mod to their escape roll.
Heck, if you didn't want your character to be using the Str Mod (and I don't blame you because I understand RP value) you could just call the Rope Technique a Ninjutsu. Those snakes that Orochimaru used seemed pretty physical to me but they were still Ninjutsu.
We have to get away from creating skills for a single combat style. It's why the system got so jumbled before with Tumble, Swim, and whatnot. Making various jutsu that changes the rules around is in my opinion a much better solution than having too many skills.
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Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:45 am
I didn't mean to replace ninjutsu with grapple, i meant use grapple with ninjutsu. The same way you would use dodge with ninjutsu for kawarimi. As for single combat style, i thought i gave it multiple purposes. It could still be used with taijutsu for CQC from metal gear solid if you played it.
I'll give one more idea and then agree to move on. If we consider grapple a submission, it wouldn't rely on strength. In many fights the only way to subdue an opponent stronger than you is through submission. In that way it's closer to agility.
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Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 8:50 pm
Too . Much . To . Read .
I need a quick down and dirty. > n>
Ya'll throwing numbers around like we're investment brokers on Wall Street.
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:09 am
Tategami Maya Dodge checks Ninjutsu and Ranged
Block checks Taijutsu and Melee
Sense checks Genjutsu (We will likely add to this. Maybe it will also check those charisma skills we were speaking of before.)
Right now were discussing removing grapple or not. cool
Ninjutsu seems like a good alternative for specific techniques and Taijutsu for Strength Grappling.
I think that way the Ninjutsu could be used as the quicker Agility grapple that your talking about Semblance and Taijutsu for Strength Grappling with brute force.
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:53 am
Uhhh I'm going to disagree with Ninjutsu for any type of grapple on the general principle of grappling being a physical action.
If you want to remove it, fine, but it ought to be 'replaced' by the Str or Endurance mod.
I don't like that dodge is exclusively for ninjutsu and ranged.
I can kind of understand the preference for block for taijutsu but meh.
So actually, I'm going to step back from all this stuff and totally let you all decide on skills > o >
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:07 am
Tategami Maya Uhhh I'm going to disagree with Ninjutsu for any type of grapple on the general principle of grappling being a physical action.
If you want to remove it, fine, but it ought to be 'replaced' by the Str or Endurance mod.
I don't like that dodge is exclusively for ninjutsu and ranged.
I can kind of understand the preference for block for taijutsu but meh.
So actually, I'm going to step back from all this stuff and totally let you all decide on skills > o >
We are thinking that we don't need an entire skill dedicated to Grapple. If we wanted to get extremely technical, we could make skills for Jump, Climb, Lockpick, Leadership, Teaching, Tracking, ect. However, we are aiming to make the system more simple than that and we are planning on using our Abilities and their Mods for tasks such as those. I am also of the opinion that we can use our jutsu system to take care of various tasks such as Grapple or Tracking so that people don't end up getting screwed over because they didn't put enough points into whichever skill they happen to need on a mission.
The reason that we are making dodge exclusive to Ninjutsu and Ranged is because the Block skill is very underwhelming when someone could just dump all of their points into Dodge and completely avoid the attack. So now we are making Block a way to completely avoid Taijutsu, just like Dodge used to be. It separates the various builds in a way that makes a bit more sense. And it is much easier for new people to learn this sort of system. However, even though it starts out simple it will progressively get more complex as characters get stronger and learn more jutsu such as the Body Replacement Technique.
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:27 pm
McClane We are thinking that we don't need an entire skill dedicated to Grapple. If we wanted to get extremely technical, we could make skills for Jump, Climb, Lockpick, Leadership, Teaching, Tracking, ect. However, we are aiming to make the system more simple than that and we are planning on using our Abilities and their Mods for tasks such as those. I am also of the opinion that we can use our jutsu system to take care of various tasks such as Grapple or Tracking so that people don't end up getting screwed over because they didn't put enough points into whichever skill they happen to need on a mission.
So it doesn't have to be grapple, but that seemed to be the most useful skill. So, I agree that non-combat actions like jump and climb should be done with mod checks, but we can't use jutsu with just mod checks, so are we satisfied with dodge, block, sense, and persuade as our only combat skills? Everything else in battle will require a jutsu, stealth, taijutsu and/or a weapon. Not arguing, just asking because I have no other ideas.
On a side note, I think art should be an independent skill.
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:33 am
To be honest I don't think that it would be a deal breaker for the system if we decided to include or exclude grapple as a skill.
And as for art I have given it a little thought and compared it to some of the characters styles from the manga.
deidara and Sai both used art in a way in their fighting styles.
Maybe art is worth keeping even if its only for that purpose, lol.
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:26 am
Grapple can stay in. Are we going to keep it aligned with Strength? What checks it? If it seems like it's not being used much, I'll likely bring up its removal in the distant future.
On to the Art skill!
I don't like the idea of using it as the basis for Deidara's or Sai's jutsu. It does make sense to do so, but inventing a new skill for every kind of jutsu is what made the old system messy. What about Hidan's ritualistic jutsu? What about Kakuzu's weird summoning jutsu? What about new members who come up with stuff we haven't even imagined yet? Acording to Narutopedia, every single technique I just mentioned is classified as Ninjutsu.
Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, and Genjutsu are the three core ways to use techniques. If you guys want more skills to define the other jutsu, then we can do that. I'm mostly opposed to it because it makes the system needlessly heavy.
We need to decide what exactly we want the Art skill to do and if it is worth keeping. My vote that we merge it with the Handicraft skill as Kouri suggested. Maybe use it as some way to craft an item that gives a buff such as a necklace that gives a Charisma buff? Just throwing ideas out there. Let me know what you guys think!
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:42 am
I was also thinking about what Kouri said about merging it with the handicraft skill but didn't know if drawing would fall under its parameters. I would have no quarrels with merging the two. I felt that Sai and Deidara's Techniques would have to use ninjutsu and art/handicraft together. Although it would seem like steep requirements for these jutsu they seemed very strong in the series. After all both Sai and Deidara were fairly formidably strong characters in my eyes and I think that would most likely reflect the jutsu we could create here. As for items buffing stats, I think that it is a good idea and would create a greater incentive for crafting. I also think that this could be an idea used to enhance the want to acquire rare/unique weapons, armor, scrolls, or items that buff skills or attributes. Maybe it could be a strategy to to raffle such items or auction for guild events such as character and guild art. Just rambling what comes to my brain at the moment haha sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:00 pm
my suggestion on the grapple mod was agility. If we think in terms of MMA, the best and sometimes only way to beat an opponent stronger than you is a submission hold, which depends more on flexibility. It is possible to break a hold with strength, but in TV and movies the person usually dislocates their shoulder. My suggestion for art was that it be used for seals/fuuin, also the attack stat for puppets, encrypting messages, dancing (kimimaro/bone guy's attacks were all dances). Those are just examples, I can think of more. I'm not as strong willed about that though so if anyone disagrees feel free to move on. The above was typed from my phone. Just had to mention that because it looks terrible to me x_x Anyway~ It's a good idea, and I would suggest that ranks be included with certain techniques. Say you have a blacksmith of 100, you would gain +10 to sword attacks. Taking my above idea into account, would the stats of the puppet be "crafted" or would we have preset stats based on the materials used?
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:35 pm
All dis back and forth ... we really need to set a group chat date, cannot abiiiiide by chatterbox discussions.
Alright let's see ...
I'm either or on grapple - I think it ought to be used more, or if not a skill, at least made into a technique based on both Strength and Agility and tucked under the Taijutsu heading.
Arts - this was originally designed for music and arts, like Sound ninja or those dudes who bring scrolls to life. It stands to reason that just because you can use your chakra ( ninjutsu ) doesn't mean whatever you have scribbled on a piece of paper is useful. An art skill of 5 for example, would be like... stick figures. Art skill of 200 is full geared out ninja s**t, dragons and helicopters and all that - you get my drift. This was its original purpose. It was also designed as a way to make money - performing a musical piece once a day would earn you Ryo. There are many ways to use this skill, but it isn't absolutely essential. Combining the two skills and calling it Arts and Crafts or even Fine Arts would be fine - it would apply to things such as weaving, painting, making tattoos, music, dance, and other such things.
The problem I see is that we are making the assumption that 'Arts' and 'Handicrafts' are totally different things, and by definition, I suppose they are. They all fall under the umbrella of Arts and Crafts tho. I propose naming it Creative Arts and throwing it under the Crafting Skills with Blacksmithing and Alchemy.
In Combat, jutsu or techniques that require some sort of 'artistic' skill ( scroll dudes, music dudes, etc. ), they can just add the Creative Arts bonus to their roll if applicable. Ex.
Scroll Dude has Ninjutsu 30 and Creative Arts 20.
Scroll Dude uses Awesome Scroll!
1d20 + Ninjutsu [30] + Creative Arts Bonus [ 2 ]
It would encourage those that NEED that skill to train it, and leave it optional for anyone else. Since it isn't a MASSIVE bonus, there's no 'real' penalty to anyone who chooses not to train it.
In reality, this crafting skill was originally named Accessory but I don't care for that either. There were different levels of things you could make with this.
Examples of Crafting Skills:
Timber [ Woodwork ]
Find usable good wood. Chop it into desirable pieces. Now you have timber.
Requirements: Utility Axe
Diff: 10
CP: 5
Post: 2/2
Rope [ Accessory / Creative Arts ]
Shave timber into fine shavings. Shift it in water in order to see the strong fibers. Weave the fibers together.
Requirements: Utility Knife, 2 Timber
Diff: 20
CP: 10
Post: 3/3
Sharpening [ Blacksmithing ]
Sharpening a weapon increases the damage the weapon deals. In order to sharpen a weapon, it must have a blade. Therefore weapons like bows and staffs cannot be sharpened. Increases the weapon crafting Diff by 10. Blade can be sharpened a max of 3 times.
Requirements: Blacksmiths tools
Diff Amplifier: + 10
CP: 5
Posts: 2/2
Special: +5 to top weapon damage range
Customising [ Blacksmithing ]
Adding weight, extra grip, designs or extra edging, you can do whatever you wish to your weapon. The more you are in tune with your weapon, the better you are at wielding it. Customizing adds +2 to weapon's damage. Can only add 3 customizations.
Requirements: Blacksmiths tools
Diff Amplifier: + 20
CP: 10
Posts: 3/3
Special: +2 to top weapon damage range
Tekagi-Shuko [ Blacksmithing ]
First, attach two metal bands so that they fit your hand and palm comfortably and will be able to bear the weight of the claws. Get a few strong pieces of iron, and fold the metal five times to make four to eight blades about six to eight inches long. It is extremely hard to get right, but the result is a set of blades that can be harnessed to the metal bands you worked with at first. Attach them to the upper band, and you have one hell of a weapon.
Requirements: Blacksmiths tools, 2 Metal
Diff: 15
CP: 8
Posts: 2/2
Metal [ Blacksmithing ]
Remove all junk ore from metal fragments the best you can. Melt the metal at high temperatures. Strain to remove imperfections. Set into mold and let cool for 1 RP day.
Requirements: Utility Axe, Blacksmith Tools, 3 Ore
Diff: 50
CP: 25
Posts: 4/4
Special: Last roll determines metal: 1-10 Iron; 10-15 Silver, 15-19 Gold; 20 Titanium
Material Embedding [ Blacksmithing ]
All accessories can be reworked in order to hold a Jewel, crystal or shaped with glass to protect the eyes. An accessory can only be embedded once. The following bonuses are: Emerald (Taijutsu), Sapphire (Ninjutsu), Ruby (Genjutsu), Diamond (Medical), Glass (Stealth), Crystal (Arts). Gives you +1 to the designated skill.
Requirements: Utility Buffer, 1 Jewel/Glass/Crystal
Diff Amplifier: +10
CP: 20
Post: 2/2
Metal Imbuing [ Blacksmithing ]
All metals can be shined and all ropes can be coated to give them extra durability and power. By imbuing an accessory you increase one bonus by 1. You can do this by engraving, shining or coating. Can only be done 3 times to a single accessory.
Requirements: Utility Buffer
Diff Amplifier: +20
CP: 40
Post: 2/2
Special: Doubles Item Value
Rope Accessory [ Accessory / Creative Arts ]
Rings, necklaces, bracelets, goggles and belts can all be made with rope. Gives a +1 Bonus to Agility.
Requirements: Utility Knife, 2 Rope
Diff: 10
CP: 5
Post: 2/2
Gold Accessory [ Accessory / Creative Arts ]
Gold is a beautiful metal and is often affiliated with power, wealth and beauty. It can be melted to a mold, chained together or made into a fine wire. Rings, necklaces, bracelets, goggles, belts and earrings can all be made with gold. Gold is loved by the eye and coveted by many. Gives +1 Bonus to Strength.
Requirements: Utility Buffer, 2 Gold
Diff: 40
CP: 20
Post: 4/4
So these are things to consider. Obv I only have these skills because Maya was a blacksmith type person, but I am sure we can figure the rest out.
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:02 am
McClane Crafting Skills Blacksmith Handcrafts Extract Woodwork Mine
Thats a lot of skills honestly because i am thinking no one is going to wanna just dump all their points into this if they are actually rp with their character.
They would only have skill points under the Crafting Skills section and honestly on I don't think too many people would want a character that only creates weapons.
I understand that you don't want everyone and their brothers running around creating supercalifragilisticexpialidocious weapons but in my honest opinion its to much.
Mine, woodwork, and extract should be placed into one skill like preparation or material collection.
Something a bit more simplistic that has a broader range.
Bringing our skills under crafting to 3 instead of 5. Semblance Wooden Puppet A unique weapon of shinobi. This Life size puppet, and some times bigger than humans, are prepared to such master workmanship that it conceals traps and weapons in its body. Using the Puppet control Technique the shinobi can create chakra strings to manipulate the Puppet to fight for him or take his position in a stealth mission. All rolls the puppet uses is the same as the user's. Spy, Hide, Intimidate, etc. To restore your Puppet's HP, you must make a blacksmith roll to repair it. The DC of the blacksmith roll is that of the Puppet's DC. CP Cost: 5 CP per Trap used. Damage: User's Normal Taijutsu + 1 per 10 ranks Ninjutsu. Requirements: Activated Puppet Technique Attack/Dodge: 1d20 + Control Block: 1d20 + Ninjutsu [Half Damage] Use Traps: 1d20 + Trap. Target must roll a Trap detect and Dodge roll. If Target's detect fails, + Sneak Attack bonus. To Heal: 1d20 + Blacksmith [Intelligence Mod + 1 per 10 ranks Blacksmith] Avoid: Treat as Normal person. Creating Puppet Since there are no puppet masters or puppets in existence in this shinobi world, every puppet master must construct and create their own puppet. To create your puppet it is much like a training exercise. You have to do this exercise to make the basic structure of the puppet. After you have done this exercise, you can add on extra traps to your puppet much like an upgrade. After you have created your puppet, make sure to write its description, the Black Smith DC, Health, traps and what they are, in your profile under 'Weapons'. You need to list the DC in order to make upgrades and repair your Puppet's HP. DC: 45 1d20 + Black Smith Train: 5/5 Special: Puppet's Hp: 90, Trap Slots: 3 Upgrading Puppet As a Puppet owner you are able to make upgrades to your puppet. You can add on more traps, HP or even boost its normal attack power. Each time you make an upgrade, your puppet's DC increases permanently. So, if you were upgrading a Puppet with a DC of 45 and added 10 points onto that DC for an extra trap, your puppets new DC would be 55. Meaning he would be harder to repair. Your puppet's description will also be upgraded with each change, so make sure to add that in as well. To Increase Puppets HP 5 points. DC: + 5 Train: 3/3 To Add on new Trap DC: + 5 Train: 3/3 Giving Puppet Melee/Ranged Weapon DC: + 10 Train: 3/3 Giving Puppet +1 Skill DC: + 10 Train: 3/3 Giving Puppet +1 Damage with Weapon or Taijutsu [Specific Damage.] DC: + 15 Train: 3/3 Puppet Traps Throwing Weapon Attack Damage: Weapon Damage + 1 per 10 ranks Trap Requirements: Puppet DC 45, 1 Trap Slot per 2 throwing weapons. Special: Must meet weapon requirement. Ranged/Melee Weapon Attack Damage: Weapon Damage Requirements: Puppet DC 55, 1 Weapon Slot, Special: Must meet Weapon requirement. Smoke Bomb Damage: None. Requirements: Puppet DC 45, 1 Trap slot Special: Explosives Damage: Tag Damage [See Alchemy Thread] Requirements: Puppet DC 80, 1 Trap Slot Special: Must meet Explosive Alchemy requirement. Capture Net Damage: None Requirements: Puppet DC 70, 1 Trap Slot Special: User's Grapple vs Target's Dodge Glue Gun Damage: - User's Intelligence Mod to Target's Agility Mod Requirements: Puppet DC 100, 1 Trap Slot Special: Oil Gun Damage: Doubles Fire Jutsu Damage Requirements: Puppet DC 100, 1 Trap Slot Special: Oil Must have hit Target in order to receive Double Damage. + Trap Bonus to Fire Ninjutsu rolls.
The way that I understand it for a certain attack you would use a trap or melee/ranged weapon.
Trap is the key skill surrounding puppet combat and melee ranged attacks I am unclear on.
So to answer your question Semb you would craft the puppet and add what traps/weapons you wanted and that would give you your damage for specific attacks.
But another question arises from my analysis, how would you calculate dodge/block for a puppet?Tategami Maya An art skill of 5 for example, would be like... stick figures. Art skill of 200 is full geared out ninja s**t, dragons and helicopters and all that - you get my drift.
But, I am in agreement with this.
I like that the ranks give the user a bonus from combining the skills.
Oh and on a side note, I am so anxious to get this bad boy rollin! mrgreen
Oh and on another side note, we might consider moving our unused old threads from Shima into the archives or locking them or something because to new people I don't want to portray a dead guild, lol.
Image is everything when attracting a new person and I think that we should stick to basic threads for the beginning rebirth of Shima.
And as we start to get some Genin's and do missions we open up parts of the island and mainland that people haven't seen.
I think that a maximum of 6 threads would be sufficient to start with.
Clinic, Kage's Office, Somewhere for the Academy (Training grounds temporarily until we build a new one), Docks, Village Ruins, and Destroyed housing district? (Repairing it as we stay their?)
These seem like a good base and as we advance we could unlock threads for missions to repair or gather things from certain places maybe even a hidden enemy could hide wating in the village ruins? twisted
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