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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:41 pm
There's no need to increase the chakra. DE included the rule hindering clone creation at the bottom. Although I do think there needs to be a "holding" cost.
I also think there's no need to do a luck roll if someone fails a sense check, I feel like that defeats the purpose of the technique. However, if someone were to overpower the technique, for example, the user makes 1 clone and the opponent hits both of them at the same time or in quick succession, meaning using pure ninjutsu or taijutsu rather than relying on sense, that would make sense to me. I can't remember anyone in the series hitting Naruto by luck, but a lot of times his clones are tossed aside.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:51 pm
Quote: Also would this need to be in effect before the attack is used or it could be used after the attack is launched as a dodge modifier. In my mind the opponent would attack then the defender uses this jutsu so you could add a ¼ of your Genjutsu per clone to dodge.
Good catch, Semblance. It's really awesome to have the both of you working with us on this stuff. I feel like the Game System is finally going to be where it always needed to be.
I think we should leave the "Control" skill out of the list and just make it something like 1 clone for every 5 or 10 points in Genjutsu. If we make a control requirement for Genjutsu, then we should be doing the same for Ninjutsu and Taijutsu, but I don't see the point of adding another skill just to complicate the mix. Remember, we are trying to keep things somewhat simple.
Semblance's idea for a holding cost is excellent. I move that we increase the cost per clone. Seems like it would be more taxing to maintain five clones than it would be to maintain just one. I'd really like to see CP come into consideration in fights more than it used to.
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:46 am
Bunshin Revision 2 Clone Technique [Bunshin no Jutsu]
This technique creates intangible clones of the user. The clones are simply illusions and will dissipate when they come into contact with something. The illusions can usually be seen through by the Byakugan and the Sharingan. A person with normal eyes can also distinguish the clones from the original, since the clones will not disrupt the area around themselves with their movement (won't kick up dust, crush grass, etc.). You use this technique to confuse your opponent in order to attack them more easily.
Cp Cost: 4 per bunshin upon creation - Additional 2 CP per clone per post
Damage: None
Requirements: Must be taught.
Seals: Ram, Snake, Tiger
Special: Can be used to dodge a Ninjutsu attack. Add ¼ of Genjutsu to dodge per clone. After dodge roll a hide check and opponent must roll sense/detect check.
Special: If Clone technique is successful you may use sneak attack onto your following attack if it coincides with the technique.
Special: 1 Bunshin per 10 Ranks Genjutsu.
Also I added the holding cost as 2 CP per clone per post active.
In my mind the initial cost would be twice as much as the holding cost of CP because your have to summon your chakra and manifest the clones.
After they are manifested it you would only be maintaining your chakra flow.
As for the luck crap, I scrapped that xD I agree with Semblance on this one.
It is also 1 Clone per 10 Ranks Genjutsu because in the Manga most of the students produced two good Bunshin Clones.
I imagine that all of our students would have at least 10 points in Ninjutsu/Taijutsu/Genjutsu regardless of their personal combat style seeing that at level five is when they will have the opportunity to take the Genin exam.
Opinions? cool
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Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:21 pm
Hmm, can't see anything wrong right now. Looks like a good template for the other clone techs.
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:42 am
Looks good to me as well. Thank you again for your help on this, Demonic.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that everyone is okay with the combat skills and how they interact with one another on the basic level. If you aren't or have any questions/comments on the combat skills and how they interact with each other, bring it up in here or PM me.
Just to recap,
Dodge checks Ninjutsu and Ranged
Block checks Taijutsu and Melee
Sense checks Genjutsu (We will likely add to this. Maybe it will also check those charisma skills we were speaking of before.)
A successful defensive roll using any of these skills causes the defender to avoid all damage, regardless of which skill the attacker is using. However, we may create specific moves that deal a small amount of damage even when avoided (some sort of crazy strong crater-creating attack).
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:50 am
I added the specifics of the combat skills to the first post in the Chatterbox. Demonic, not sure if you've already seen it, but everything we've been talking about is summarized in the very first post of this thread.
Now that those basic combat skills have been settled, let's finish up the skill and ability section of the profile scroll. I just want to finalize everything we've been talking about and speak about concerns anyone may have. The skills that require attention are bolded.Independent Skills - Skills that don't depend on anything but themselves and Abilities.
Dodge
Block
Sense
Lie / Persuade
Sprint
Swim
Grapple
Tumble / Acrobatics
Dependent Skills - Skills that rely on independent skills and abilities to counter them
Melee Weapons
Ranged Weapons
Medical
Ninjutsu
Genjutsu
Taijutsu
Stealth
Arts
Crafting Skills
Blacksmith
Handcrafts
Extract
Woodwork
Mine
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:53 am
First, I think we should focus on cutting out the fluff so that we shorten the list quickly. We were talking about removing Swim and Sprint. Is everyone still in favor of that?
I was also wondering if you all figured if we needed Grapple or not. It has always seemed like an extension of Taijutsu to me. Should we keep it or get rid of it?
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:47 am
Independent Skills - Skills that don't depend on anything but themselves and Abilities.
Dodge
Block
Sense
Lie / Persuade - I vote keep. I had used the lie skill in a practical way on a mission with Kana. In my opinoin its a keeper.
Sprint - Cut. 1D20 + Agility Modifier could be a suitable substitute for this application.
Swim - Cut. 1D20 + Strength, Endurance, or even ½ of both for this situation.
Grapple - Keep? I'm uncertain on this particular skill, don't think I ever even used it. sweatdrop
Tumble / Acrobatics - Cut. Tumble just seems like an alternative dodge to me and with our new system is useless. Acrobatics? Maybe we could keep that but still don't know where a practical application would be.
Dependent Skills - Skills that rely on independent skills and abilities to counter them
Melee Weapons
Ranged Weapons
Medical - Keep. I think that if we moved it to Ninjutsu that everybody and their brothers would be healing someone at any given chance. Unless we found a specific character requirement or paired the Jutsu with another skill my opinion on this is to keep.
Ninjutsu
Genjutsu
Taijutsu
Stealth - I'm assuming this is sneak attack. Which case I would suggest merging this with the Hide skill.
Arts - Cut. . . burning_eyes
Crafting Skills
Blacksmith
Handcrafts
Extract
Woodwork
Mine
As for weapon crafting it seems like a hell of a lot must go into just one weapon. If we could make all the resources available to buy so that the weapon could be assembled after all required parts are purchased or obtained from a mission it would make it much easier, but at the same time we would be able to control how strong a weapon certain level characters could have by skill/level requirements and sheer price of the weapon because higher grade missions will yeild more moollaa (Money sweatdrop ).
Edit
Also someone will have to edit the Bunshin technique because I can't. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:00 am
My (quick sweatdrop ) input
-Sense to counter Charisma skills sounds like a wonderful idea.
-Grapple: It's a useful mechanic because it allows people who are good at Taijutsu to prevent their opponents from moving (so it'd be like Charisma skills, kind of, with the limiting options thing), but I think grapples should be done with either strength checks or Taijutsu rolls. (Depending on the escape roll)
-Sprint and Swim - I agree with DE, Agi for the former and depending on situation Str or End for the latter. If you live on an island nation and can't swim, then... sweatdrop (Then it would provide lots of flavour and you could just get penalties to your rolls as an exception)
-Acrobatics: It'd be useful in situations where you have to keep your balance. Well, the D&D application is for things like keeping your balance, breaking your fall (if from high heights), not losing speed when travelling across uneven terrain and such (which doesn't seem relevant to Shima). Bar capoeira (which was the main use of this skill, I think), it doesn't seem as useful as some of the other skills, admittedly.
-Medical: Agree with DE
-Stealth: What did you want to talk about this? Seems pretty integral of a skill to me... xD
-Arts: I think this could be merged with Handcrafts
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Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:55 am
As usual I'm gonna focus on a simple goal and start with tuning the independent skills. My thinking is, these skills should be things you instinctively know and don't need to be taught. The purpose is to do them better.
I want to go back to my suggestion that fights can be conducted "independently". I think grapple is necessary as a close-combat skill. It should be used for holding, throwing, or otherwise subduing an opponent without damage-dealing attacks. A quick example is Shikamaru's shadow techniques. A grapple should only last for one post since the opponent is struggling, in which case, as a physical skill, the opponent can use block to escape, or grapple to reverse.
If we follow that same logic, we could keep persuade to counter sense. We can also use persuade paired with "hypnotic" genjutsu, which was a huge issue in the old system and inevitably thrown out. The difference between this and a charisma roll would be charisma can be used outwardly, while persuade is used internally. Or in other words, persuade affects the mind, such as intimidation, while charisma affects the body, such as disguises.
Then there's the third skill that would offset dodge. If we continue to follow the traits we've used so far, the next skill should somehow be offensive and at a distance.
-----Sprint was used to chase someone or run away, which is useless in a system that doesn't record distance. It was paired with shunshin/body flicker for quick movements, which is the same as applying agility to ninjutsu.
-----Tumble was made out to be a way to attack and dodge at the same time, and paired with capoeira, In Sawa capoeira was done with taijutsu using an agility mod, making tumble useless and giving rise to acrobatics.
-----Swim was supposed to be a counter to water jutsu, but a whole skill to counter a single type of jutsu never made sense. Where are the other... 5 skills? There was also use of it when underwater, but i feel agility can do that.
-----Acrobatics was supposed to encompass physical feats like climbing, swimming, etc. This is great outside of combat, but in combat it seems like a specialized dodge just like swim, but more versatile.
~Way i see it, none of these are necessary, even ignoring a counter for dodge. We've spent all this time making 3 specialized defensive skills, this next skill should be offensive or neutral. If offensive, it would have some use noticeably different from grapple. If neutral, there would have to be some advantage that would justify adding points to it. If we make yet another defensive skill, it would have to apply to an offensive skill, which we've sorta used up. In my opinion, the only skill that fits this spot is Art as a neutral skill. Along with drawing pictures, encrypting notes, etc, it can be used with ninjutsu to perform sealing jutsu. I can't think of any offensive skill that would go well with dodge.
And that's my in-depth analysis. I once again wrote way more than i was expecting...
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:21 am
So since we don't calculate distances, what exactly would be the benefit of Grappling your opponent then? Setting up for special Taijutsu? Maybe certain powerful Taijutsu attacks require you to Grapple first? Or is it just for RP purposes?
We could also do this with Genjutsu and Ninjutsu.
A powerful Genjutsu would require to to persuade your opponent into believing something is real before you can cast it. Or like the Uchiha Genjutsu, it would require you to persuade them to look into your eyes. So Sense would still be able to check that.
A powerful Ninjutsu might require charging up or some sort of set up. I'm not quite sure how dodge would check that sort of thing yet though......
I mianly want to know what the real purpose of Grapple is and why someone might use it.
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:03 am
McClane I mianly want to know what the real purpose of Grapple is and why someone might use it.
The purpose is to hold or otherwise subdue an opponent without damage dealing attacks. You prevent them from normal attacks and/or escaping.
Someone would use the skill as a physical way to prevent an opponent from attacking, or to force that person to stay still or to come with you.
Not sure what more you're looking for. You could say it doubles as a physical version of persuade.
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:44 am
Semblance it doubles as a physical version of persuade.
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:18 am
Restrain - Meh, is anyone really going to wanna put points into that. . . sweatdrop
Something that causes no damage but prevents the enemy from attacking just seems like something that could be settled with strength checks.
In my eyes its just going to be another under used skill that will be to strong against everyone else once the one person thats going to use it dumps 25 points into it. rofl
I see potential for use in team combat (2 vs 1) but 1 vs 1 would be pointless.
And thats how we fight most of the time i think. (1vs1)
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:59 am
I'm in full agreement with removing it as well.
In my five or six years, or how ever long in Shima, I've only ever had to almost interact with it once. And I didn't even end up interacting with it because my character had dealt enough damage on the previous turn to end the fight ^^;;
A passive physical skill sounds cool, but we could just make this into a Taijutsu-based jutsu to be honest. It might even see more use that way.
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