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Best: Forde. Although I would name either Amelia, Ewan, or Ross as one of the best since they are OP units, I'm not since they have one extra "class" than most of the FE units have. So I'm going with Forde because I love his personality in his supports as well as how balance his stats is.

Worst: Knoll. I will admit that Knoll makes me feel like he's a slow unit like a knight, but what I also dislike about Knoll is that he's also fragile due to terrible defense that you need another unit to pair him until he's fairly able to handle himself. This makes me feel like Knoll is more of an archer than a shaman. >>;

Why do I keep forgetting about Ewan? -changes vote because she knows FD and Rath are right-

Best: Seth. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Worst: Ewan. Why isn't Knoll or Syrene in this spot? Well... I don't actually see them as actually bad units. They actually are useful in their own ways. Knoll can be a great summoner if you decide to use him. Summoning in FE8 does have great benefits in itself. Using Phantom soldiers as decoys or what FD said, having them scout for Fow maps. I used to think he was bad because of his low luck. But that was so many years ago before I joined the guild,and I was completely new to the series. Also, SS was my 2nd game in the series after I had played FE7, and I didn't know any better to be quite frank. >.>

But those that complain about his low luck? So what? Having low luck does not make a bad unit. Besides that can be easily fixed with goddess icons. And there's a secret shop that sells stat booster items.

If you want a third flier and someone that can complete the Frelia triangle attack trio sisters, then she's your gal. And her growths can be quite decent from what I remember. I don't think there's actually a unit I think would be considered bad in FE8. Sure there are better units that certainly triumph over them stat wise. But that doesn't make them bad at all now does it?.

I don't have anything against Ewan. In all honesty, I actually still do like him as a unit and he's a pretty cute, fun character. In my experience he has the potential to become a fantastic druid. But really, he can be great as just about any unit you wish to class change him to. That goes the same with the trainees in general. What I do have a problem with him, however, is his availability and the time that he comes into the game. He's only a level 1 apprentice trainee Taking out the tower of valni aside, he can be a pretty big pain in the butt to raise. Literally no defense at all, barely any magic power to really deal damage to the enemy. You have to constantly protect him always and feed him kills to use him. It's like the game is shouting out "USE THE TOWER!" or "GET THE POWER, THE VALNI TOWER!"

The other trainees at least come in earlier, and I never really found it to be a problem to use them without the tower. That's why I think he is the worst. It's really how the game programmed it that makes him bad in my opinion.

Best: Seth. BY FAR. Bias aside, this man will rip and tear through every damn chapter, only having TRUE difficulty with Chapter 14, the desert chapter, due to mobility issues. Nothing else phases this man.

Worst: Alright, this is gonna piss a LOT of people off and frankly, it's an opinion, so I don't care. I vote Syrene for worst unit. As has been said, no unit is "BAD" in FE8, but I feel Syrene is the least useful. Flying utility be DAMNED, her stats and growths do not nearly make up for the lack of power she unfortunately suffers from. While Ewan takes a lot of babying, due to how FE8 works, that babying is relatively easy, especially if you use someone like say Neimi, who has high enough strength to weaken, but low enough not to kill necessarily. By the time you get Syrene, you should have three godly flyers in the form of Cormag, Tana, and Vanessa. FE8 is easy enough, and a triangle attack is not necessary at all. For reference, I've had Druid!Ewan oneshot the final boss. Every time I've used Syrene, she's struggled to kill any thing not called a mage. Frankly, other than triangle attack enabling, I see no real use for the big sister of Vanessa.

I always take all factors into account, which is why I rank Ewan above Syrene. Again with Syrene, you should have 3 godly flyers already. And you SHOULD have 16 powerful units ready to break through to the end...well 14 counting both Eirka and Ephraim, but still. If you look at it that way, Syrene can be measured as pointless. Ewan on the other hand, you have to measure the fact that what he can become is one of the strongest units in the game, on par with someone like Seth. He DOES require more work, but for Syrene, any work you put in with her is going to be diminished by her mediocre at best growths. Flying utility may be great yes, but I've said it before, you have 16 units by that point..otherwise you're playing FE8 wrong and why don't you have 16 units. Assuming normal playthroughs that is, apologies to all you FE8 drafters out there.

STR: 40 | SKL: 50 | SPD: 60 | LCK: 30 | DEF: 20 | RES: 50
Syrene's growths barring 70 hp which I feel speaks as it's good but it's HP and most people have a decent HP growth. 50 Skill growth with lances is...To be perfectly frank, mediocre at best in my honest opinion. Lances tend to be fairly inaccurate. If memory serves, FE8 Silver Lance has..I wanna say 75 ACC? It's been a while, so apologies. 40 Strength is...Ugh. I know she's a FalcoKnight, but 40 Str growth won't cut it in terms of a lot of the higher defense enemies in the later chapters. I've had terrible results anytime I've used Syrene, so there is some bias here. I will plainly admit that. I like Ewan. I DO NOT like Syrene. Her other growths are average at best TBH. 50 Res is normal for a peg, as is 60 spd, but 30 lck is a bit weird. I know Luck doesn't matter as much as say Speed, but that's for another time and place. And yes yes, I hear all this tromp about flyers and whatever, but as you said, you mentioned the other three. Unit cap for any chapter is 16. I'd rather put Ewan in there than Syrene. Now to your point about Ewan's growths.

HP: 50 | STR: 45 | SKL: 40 | SPD: 35 | LCK: 50 | DEF: 15 | RES: 40

Now I'm perfectly aware his growths look...well to be perfectly frank, barring luck, res, and magic, his growths look pretty terrible. However, I'll use Donnel as a comparison. Normally his growths look pretty bad, but add in Aptitude and suddenly he's a god. Same thing here. 9 extra levels are Ewan's, and the other trainees', Aptitude. Using the Tower of Valni on him is basically doing the same thing as using it for say, Knoll on Eirika's path. A Level 10 Shaman with base 0 luck is not going to be great to start out with. Use the Tower of Valni or map battles, and suddenly things are a lot better. As for the effort, the EXP comes INCREDIBLY quickly. For reference, Ross can become level 10 by...I wanna say Chapter 4 if you feed him every kill. Hell, possibly the end of three...no that's a bit much I think. Regardless, the effort required is a lot less than people think. Three floors. I can most likely guarantee at most it'll take three floors of the Tower of Valni. That's what...10-30 minutes? Once he hits Mage or Shaman(I prefer Shaman myself, mainly because I don't care for Knoll), suddenly he can start taking things down on his own. At that point, things start to look up for our prodigal mage. At this point, he's basically another mage who has extra stats at base. Combine that with I believe he's got pretty decent support options, you have a demon in the making.

Also, I'm perfectly aware we discuss strategical uses, but you also may want to take a look for the casual player, or the one who wishes to min-max. A lot of casual players who I've talked to will say that they used Ewan most playthroughs on Eirika's path. Note Eirika's path, because Ephraim's..well frankly there he's a piece of crap and used in one of the most annoying recruitments in FE8. Someone playing casually may very well use the Tower of Valni to give him that needed boost..and even without it, I can easily get him roughly...I wanna say up to level 18 or 19 Shaman/Mage? By that point, I could have promoted him at Level 15, and he'd still be absolutely fine. The effort required as stated earlier is not as much as people make it out to be, you just have to be a bit crazy.

"And babying can be done in any game, but objectively speaking from that strategic point of view, which I consider key to this kind of discussion, why would you baby weak units when you can just be making already strong units even stronger?"

To this, I will say one thing, and one thing only...RNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG, WHY MUST YOU SPITE US SO. I'm aware personal experience means absolutely shite here, but I speak from it saying that anyone..EVEN SETH, can get screwed by RNG.

Regardless of what both of us think, in the end of the day, it's opinions. I will maintain that I feel Syrene is the worst unit in FE8, while you will maintain that Ewan is. I will agree to disagree with that, saying neither of us are wrong, nor right. But that's not what this is about, it's what both of us went into detail about. It's discussion. And I enjoy a good discussion.

Well FD kind of said basically what I was going to reply with for the growths talk. You can't knock her growths. Her stats and growths do back her up even though she's certainly not going to be in the running for best.

Aptitude and the trainee class are not a proper comparison.

Again, I put forth the argument which has still not been refuted; why take the time and resources to baby a unit you don't have to use when you could just be making already strong units even stronger. This applies to using the tower of valni. Why should I put Ewan through it when I can put somebody I've already been using and will likely get a lot further than him in it anyway?

This discussion isn't about personal experience or casual gameplay. It's about objectivity and looking at the strategic facts about stats, growths, starting levels, base stats, supports, affinities, weapon ranks, class ability, skills, competition, starting chapter, starting weapon, etc. And while it's all fine and dandy to have opinions, one should realize when their arguments aren't holding ground while other people's are, and consider augmenting their decision. I certainly have a few times after FD has come to town on rounds.

I'm not sure what you mean by "interpretation of the data". Data is data. It doesn't lie. There are many different strategies one can use, some more efficient than the others. That's the point.

I don't understand the passive aggressive attitude. This topic is clearly mostly about objectivity than subjectivity and thus objectivity should be the forefront of most rounds. People need to understand that, because we're required to back up our votes and prepare for discussion about our reasoning. That's the topic. Nobody's saying you shouldn't be here. It doesn't matter if you're a more casual player. I'm a casual player. But in this topic, that doesn't matter.

Last round, for instance, was mostly subjectivity. But even subjective rounds have a basis for the answers given.