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Dear Princess Molestia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:32 pm


Tres Ecstuffuan


Thats because 4e is balls.


See, I really like 4e. I was really into the whole MMO feeling it had and I always felt more inspired to actually RP than to number crunch.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:36 pm


Tres Ecstuffuan
Dear Princess Molestia
I wanna do a 4e campaign. I'm like the only one who wants to do 4e...

Thats because 4e is balls.

...yes and no...

4e is more of a "pick up and play" format than many other tabletop games. It condenses a lot of things down into shared numbers, limits the amount of options you can have at one time so that you have fewer things to choose between, and basically removes all penalties in favor of just giving everything tons of bonuses instead. The numbers are all higher, but when compared the difference in stats is still there.

The thing about 4e is that it's basically a boardgame version of the game. I really liked playing Hero Quest when I was young, and 4e feels more like that to me than it feels like a regular tabletop.

It takes a middle ground between customizable characters and a boxed set game.


themightyjello


Dapper Elocutionist

5,650 Points
  • Happy Birthday! 100
  • Timid 100

Tres Ecstuffuan

Aged Gaian

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:38 pm


Dear Princess Molestia
Tres Ecstuffuan


Thats because 4e is balls.


See, I really like 4e. I was really into the whole MMO feeling it had and I always felt more inspired to actually RP than to number crunch.


3.5 and Pathfinder games, I feel often become number crunching unnecessarily. This isn't due to the nature of the games but more so the way the games are run and played, though admittedly 3.5 and up are stat heavy.

My issue with pathfinder was the lack of unique feel between classes and the lack of customization. The whole point of an RP is that you can do anything and you are supposed to be using your imagination, adding your own flavor to everything (where in 4e flavor was often pre-determined). I feel that trying to be an MMO really goes against that idea.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:40 pm


Since I'll be up late writing anyway, time to give my opinion with lots of p***s.
_________________________________________________
UNO - Tells/Prep.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every single attack and thing you do needs a message on the top of the post going "<******** watch out, bad stuff's coming your way!" Imagine how ridiculous that would be for an assassin.

But there has to be a proper balance of power to risk to effort to response time. Will it ever be perfect? No but you have to try.

For instance, again using my gay snake man, why are his snakes big bright and shiny? Because multiple "limbs" and points of attack can be confusing when people frequently goof up simple concepts like right/left. And while you might think that's fine, it's really just making the mechanic obtuse in an unsatisfying manner.

I prefer my opponent having a fair chance of beating the challenge of my character, and then -still- beating them. And if they beat the challenge presented, that sucks and I wanna prevent it whenever possible but I'd still prefer it be available compared to me flat out winning with slanted factors.

Note this is always subjective to a character's kit, nothing's ever really in stone - but an instant attack with no warning whatsoever should typically be:

-Melee range, mild to low strength
-If ranged, low strength

..because the "power" of that is its speed and unpredictable nature. You don't need it to also chunk your enemy, because then it's something that's unpredictable, instant, powerful, and therefore a no brainer in usage.

Now, other elements can of course change this, like resource usage. If all of your moves go off some resource and you spend like.. 70% of it to do this super badass attack, I'm fine with that because you're making a heavy investment for that "unfair" ability usage. Or something like you having limited usage of a fairly powerful [weapon function]; give the big effects some kinda cost, so it's not just as mindless as "I feel like ending the fight now. Win button activate."

But when you vehemently oppose making your character transparent -- at least as Jello stated in an OOC context -- you're doing it wrong. And you should expect heavy judge sanctions by any tournament that gives a s**t. Like, ever.

_________________________________________________
DOS - Metagaming.

I love metagaming. There's nothing wrong with metagaming and I always laugh at people who demonize it. Like in D&D, if your character chooses to use a longsword instead of a spoon because the former's a better implement for slaying monsters, you are metagaming to some mild degree.

Making informed decisions based off what you feel is effective [isn't a bad thing]. And your OOC influence your IC a lot whether you're aware of it or not.

But there's always a fine line. Is it effective to make your character filled to the brim with instantaneous unpredictable super attacks? Hell yeah it is. So is giving your character the ability to launch an atomic bomb and not take any negative or damaging effects from it themselves. But that's not really "good" metagaming.

Same example above with Snake Woowoo. I metagame in the opponent's favor by putting a stupid post format thing at the end of my posts that basically names each snake and shows where they're at and (gist wise) what they're doing. Do I need to? No, I already said what they're doing in my post. And sure it'd be more effective if I didn't because then my opponent would be confused as to the placement of the snakes and make bad reactions IC that would doom them.

Is that the way I want to win my fights?

No. I've done that before. That's boring as ********. I'd rather lose hands down.

I'm not holding their hand, I'm just making things as even as I can so when I do smash them, I can say it wasn't because of intentionally masking my character's actions in vagueness. I almost don't see how someone can disagree with this at least in premise, it's common sense level 100.

_________________________________________________
TRES - Hank Hill.

Gonna kick yer' a**.


Haelikor


Prophet


Scalar Warfare

Ice-Cold Explorer

8,425 Points
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  • Battle: Mage 100
  • Partygoer 500
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:44 pm


Oh, I wasn't saying that metagaming is ALWAYS BAD, ALL THE TIME, only that everyone does it.... all the time.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:45 pm


themightyjello
Tres Ecstuffuan
Dear Princess Molestia
I wanna do a 4e campaign. I'm like the only one who wants to do 4e...

Thats because 4e is balls.

...yes and no...

4e is more of a "pick up and play" format than many other tabletop games. It condenses a lot of things down into shared numbers, limits the amount of options you can have at one time so that you have fewer things to choose between, and basically removes all penalties in favor of just giving everything tons of bonuses instead. The numbers are all higher, but when compared the difference in stats is still there.

The thing about 4e is that it's basically a boardgame version of the game. I really liked playing Hero Quest when I was young, and 4e feels more like that to me than it feels like a regular tabletop.

It takes a middle ground between customizable characters and a boxed set game.


Hmm, when you think about it like that, I can definitely see its merits.

I mean ultimately you can reflavor anything if the DM lets you, so thats not as big an issue really.

A good story could be told with it.

Tres Ecstuffuan

Aged Gaian



Haelikor


Prophet

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:46 pm


Oh, well yeah. I think it's honestly about impossible not to at least to a subconscious level. Like I'll flat out say I do it. I just try my best to be responsible about it.

We have a party member in my 3.5 campaign who's implied to wanna betray us at some point. There was an enchant I could've grabbed that'd let me lower his power points from [how many he has] to 0 at this point and cripple the ******** out of him.

But I had no legitimate reason in my character's background, knowledge of the situation, etc. to get an anti-psion weapon.

So despite how effective and tempting that was, I didn't do it. As an example.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:47 pm


Just like that, saw a wall of text and didn't read it.

I need to get over that.

Red the Ambivalent

Original Player



themightyjello


Dapper Elocutionist

5,650 Points
  • Happy Birthday! 100
  • Timid 100
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:48 pm


Tres Ecstuffuan
3.5 and Pathfinder games, I feel often become number crunching unnecessarily. This isn't due to the nature of the games but more so the way the games are run and played, though admittedly 3.5 and up are stat heavy.

This is an issue that pretty much is defined by the group that you play with.

If you play with a group of people that number crunch... or even like, ONE PERSON in the group is number crunching, everyone who doesn't do it will feel like they're not effective at all and the DM is forced to either tailor encounters to provide a challenge to that one person (otherwise he's blowing everything away in one hit) which completely destroys the rest of the group, or the DM has to make niche encounters with special ability creatures that minimize the advantage that the problem player is going for.

It kind of takes a communal decision to not number crunch, or at least to not maximize at every possible moment, to make a game full of backwards-built flavor characters to thrive and not feel like they're lagging behind.

Like for example, in our game last week there was Chandler's character Starc who was swinging for 14 damage at level 1. You could say that this is number crunching (because it is), since he started with 20 str and power attack using a 2H exotic weapon. It completely blows everything away in one hit. If he keeps up building his character this way it will obviously create a problem because the DM would have to adjust the encounters to either make enemies harder to hit or give them more HP (and giving more HP generally means stat increases in other areas as well). If he instead puts his level 3 feat into.... skill focus (perform) then it's slightly less of something to complain about.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:49 pm


I'm old school. "Wall of text" means "many sentenced paragraph with no indentations, formatting, or breaks" not "more text than a few sentences, uhggu reading" to me.


Haelikor


Prophet


Red the Ambivalent

Original Player

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:51 pm


Shuddap Hael.

There we go, another one to add to the books.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:53 pm


themightyjello
It kind of takes a communal decision to not number crunch, or at least to not maximize at every possible moment, to make a game full of backwards-built flavor characters to thrive and not feel like they're lagging behind.


It's a rough one because yeah, it does depend on your DM and group.

Like, this is me right now. I charge. I deal over 1k damage to [insert boss.] Encounter over.

But then I play a utility based flavor character and the group decides "******** YOU DOING ANYTHING, I'MA CHARGE IN."

And I try to nerf my characters, but.. [waves hand] .. it's like I'm optimized to a degree? But my fellow party members are super unoptimized as well which increases the gap. Not like "I'm picking whatever sounds cool" unoptimized but "How the ******** does a Warforged Druid at level 18 only have 11 AC?" unoptimized, to where:

-If encounters are at my character's level, they blow away the party.
-If encounters are at my party members' except the psion's level, they ..blow away the party.

It artificially makes the encounters way harder because I have to murder rape everything -and- debuff/heal/stand in for/save half the group.


Haelikor


Prophet


Zou Kraze

Unsealed Aggressor

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:53 pm


Lord Haelstrom
[looks at Heita]

..Why are you dressed like Freddy Mercury?

Because Marriage...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:54 pm


themightyjello


Like for example, in our game last week there was Chandler's character Starc who was swinging for 14 damage at level 1. You could say that this is number crunching (because it is), since he started with 20 str and power attack using a 2H exotic weapon. It completely blows everything away in one hit. If he keeps up building his character this way it will obviously create a problem because the DM would have to adjust the encounters to either make enemies harder to hit or give them more HP (and giving more HP generally means stat increases in other areas as well). If he instead puts his level 3 feat into.... skill focus (perform) then it's slightly less of something to complain about.


You are ******** kidding me? Really?

Tres Ecstuffuan

Aged Gaian



Haelikor


Prophet

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:58 pm


...[raises fist with a microphone]
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