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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:04 pm
rikeen90 Again, although the show says it, thus making it cannon, you have to try and make it "non-cannon" by saying the characters "MEANT" something else... Soooo...WHY does this only happen in DBU threads? I believe earlier when we were discussing the Flash's statment, which would have had the same doubts as these; the idea was dismissed. Agreed, Rikeen. The DBU seems to be picked on quite frequently, just for the hell of it. The series compares to a kid on the playground who's just as tough as the bully, but gets beat up anyway. Saying something has great validity, thought not as much as doing something. If a character says something, and has no reason to lie, and is not suspected by other characters of lying, and has no history of making false claims, and hasn't been proven wrong at some point, then I don't see why we can't take the person's word for it. Even if a fellow character backs-up what someone says or does, chances are it won't be taken seriously. However, this only applies to the DBU.
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:59 pm
Kamikazek-Z Well actualy, all evidence suports that Goku should be able to use kaioken on top of SSJ, and why he doesn't is beond me. Trevor's second point seems likely. In the noncanonical undead tournament filler, Goku did in fact use a "Super keioken", BTW. Also, I thought it was strange that Cell never used the keioken. I don't remember when this is exactly but bear in mind that Cell only contains the abilities of the DNA of those in question in his genetic make-up at the time the their DNA was taken.Dr. Gero had been taking DNA from various individuals thoughout the DBU, thus if I remember correctly I think Gero had pre-Kaioken Gokou's DNA in his possession, hence Cell lacks the ability. Heck, Cell only recently gained Shukanido ability after he blew-up Kaiou Sen'nin's planet when Gokou himself used the ability himself to teleport them there.Saiyan Master Vegeta rikeen90 Again, although the show says it, thus making it cannon, you have to try and make it "non-cannon" by saying the characters "MEANT" something else... Soooo...WHY does this only happen in DBU threads? I believe earlier when we were discussing the Flash's statment, which would have had the same doubts as these; the idea was dismissed. Agreed, Rikeen. The DBU seems to be picked on quite frequently, just for the hell of it. The series compares to a kid on the playground who's just as tough as the bully, but gets beat up anyway. Saying something has great validity, thought not as much as doing something. If a character says something, and has no reason to lie, and is not suspected by other characters of lying, and has no history of making false claims, and hasn't been proven wrong at some point, then I don't see why we can't take the person's word for it. Even if a fellow character backs-up what someone says or does, chances are it won't be taken seriously. However, this only applies to the DBU.
As good as a write-up it was it discredits Gokou and the DBU on ALL accounts. It immediately puts the party in question on trial just because we have more contextual evidence in Superman's favor whereas in Gokou's case we mostly see and watch.
I believe 9/10 times that people are thinking of animated Gokou anyhow since by the time DBU manga was being introduced in English translation people were getting more or less "tired" of DBZ because of United States network television's constant re-running of reruns.
Remember though most popular anime series start out as manga, in the United States fanbase case, the animated form had YEARS of an established fanbase advantage over it's literary counterpart.
Heck, the first manga introduced in the U.S. was read in American format (left-to-right) and it took a while for American manga licensing companies realized that despite the fact that 90%+ of Americans do not read, speak, or understand Japanese, we prefer our manga as close to the original format in everyway possible including the way it is printed much like most American anime/manga fans have always preferred subbed over dubbed."
But I digress, people are looking at Rayner's Journal and probably Pym's argument to their advantage to discredit the DBU. They use the former to say "We got all this material to support Superman and according to Pym's argument no one in the DBU universe has been shown to have even close enough potential let alone actually perform said feats themselves."
The answers are there but no one is willing to use "logic and common sense" to know that they are there much like how we're proving Gokou's planet busting capabilities.
Heck even SMV's evidence has been in the form of manga themselves.
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:55 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:36 am
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:09 pm
SMV=God of Manga Scans? o.O?
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Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:50 pm
It was said that the "Gero fly" took DNA samples during the Goku vs. Vageta fight, at which point Goku did indede know the keioken.
Plus he copyed Goku again after his selfdestruction.
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:35 pm
Some one should be smacked for voting for goku
first superman can take on anything except kryptonite but goku has trouble just turning ssj3 and ssj4
supermans powers are limitless if the sun is out on a nice bright day but goku can not last long. All superman has to do is keep goku on space long enough for goku to lose his breath or just drag goku to the center of the earth like nothing.
Also superman can survive a blast from an atomic bomb while goku fears just to be hit by a bullet. Nothing can pierce Supermans skin unless it is a sharp form of kryptonite or some one is strong enough to do it like Doomsday (the only one to defeat Superman but i doubt goku and Doomsday would join as a team.)
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:39 am
rikeen90 Again, although the show says it, thus making it cannon, you have to try and make it "non-cannon" by saying the characters "MEANT" something else... Soooo...WHY does this only happen in DBU threads? I believe earlier when we were discussing the Flash's statment, which would have had the same doubts as these; the idea was dismissed. That is not the case if you are refering to CELL saying that his what ever blast is going to destroy the solsr system, but he does nothing in the series to back said statement up... It is not non-canon it is unprovable there is a difference. It is like me saying that Yellow Jacket has no height limits when using his growth powers, I've gotpics in the comics showing him over 100 foot tall but everywhere else puts his limits at 60-100 feet tall. It does not just happen with DBU... You have got to admit as well that a good portion of DBU posts this Guild NOT included tend to give DBU Characters MUCH more power than they should.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:46 am
richie5_9 Some one should be smacked for voting for goku first superman can take on anything except kryptonite but goku has trouble just turning ssj3 and ssj4 supermans powers are limitless if the sun is out on a nice bright day but goku can not last long. All superman has to do is keep goku on space long enough for goku to lose his breath or just drag goku to the center of the earth like nothing. Also superman can survive a blast from an atomic bomb while goku fears just to be hit by a bullet. Nothing can pierce Supermans skin unless it is a sharp form of kryptonite or some one is strong enough to do it like Doomsday (the only one to defeat Superman but i doubt goku and Doomsday would join as a team.) Actually this is JLU Superman and he is a lot weaker than his comic book counterpart.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:16 pm
richie5_9 Some one should be smacked for voting for goku first superman can take on anything except kryptonite but goku has trouble just turning ssj3 and ssj4 supermans powers are limitless if the sun is out on a nice bright day but goku can not last long. All superman has to do is keep goku on space long enough for goku to lose his breath or just drag goku to the center of the earth like nothing. Also superman can survive a blast from an atomic bomb while goku fears just to be hit by a bullet. Nothing can pierce Supermans skin unless it is a sharp form of kryptonite or some one is strong enough to do it like Doomsday (the only one to defeat Superman but i doubt goku and Doomsday would join as a team.) What in gods name are you talking about? Goku isn't afraid of getting hit by a bullet. Raditz doesn't fear that and he is tons of times weaker than Goku.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:32 pm
richie5_9 Some one should be smacked for voting for goku Don't go smack-happy just yet. richie5_9 first superman can take on anything except kryptonite Wrong. As Pym said, JLU Superman is far weaker than comic Superman. richie5_9 but goku has trouble just turning ssj3 and ssj4 Did you even watch the series? He only took a while transforming into SSJ3 because it was his first time on Earth. Heaven has differing physics. And if you'll recall, he transforms into SSJ3 in a matter of seconds against Kid Buu. Also, don't use SSJ4 here. It's non-canon, and portrays Goku as being far weaker than he should be with such a supposed power boost. richie5_9 supermans powers are limitless if the sun is out on a nice bright day but goku can not last long. Then how come we see JLU Superman struggle with several obstacles, even on these bright sunny days you talk of? And no, Goku's durability/endurance is equal, if not better than that of JLU Superman. If you really want to pursue this issue, I'll bring in manga scans. richie5_9 All superman has to do is keep goku on space long enough for goku to lose his breath or just drag goku to the center of the earth like nothing. And exactly how is Supes going to get Goku into space? Remember, that would be easy for comic Supes, but not JLU Supes. richie5_9 Also superman can survive a blast from an atomic bomb while goku fears just to be hit by a bullet. An atomic bomb is nothing compared to what both fighters here can dish out. And is Goku really afraid of bullets? Let's see . . . he took on the entire Red Ribbon Army, single-handedly, as a child, with hundreds of bullets being sprayed at him by the second. Not to mention he was shot in the eye as a child, unharmed. richie5_9 Nothing can pierce Supermans skin unless it is a sharp form of kryptonite or some one is strong enough to do it like Doomsday (the only one to defeat Superman but i doubt goku and Doomsday would join as a team.) Again, Kryptonite isn't Superman's only problem in the JLU.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:39 pm
Dr Henry Pym You have got to admit as well that a good portion of DBU posts this Guild NOT included tend to give DBU Characters MUCH more power than they should. Yes, people outside this guild do tend to exaggerate the abilities of DBU characters, but Rikeen was referring to the degrading of the DBU within this guild.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:02 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta Dr Henry Pym You have got to admit as well that a good portion of DBU posts this Guild NOT included tend to give DBU Characters MUCH more power than they should. Yes, people outside this guild do tend to exaggerate the abilities of DBU characters, but Rikeen was referring to the degrading of the DBU within this guild. Actually I've seen the exact opposite. If I remember during the early stages of this guild no one was willing to give Base form Goku the ability to lift more than 10 tons. Now it has been agreed to over 40 tons in base form. It has taken time but with good members posting scans that actually have something to back themselves up with Goku is getting a lot more respect in his abilities. What would benefit the DBZ fans is a Goku Respect thread of some sort, with pics and scans so that you all have access to them when discussing DBZ arguements. I'll give Goku the Planet Busting ability mainly because it makes sense for his power to be that strong. That and Roshi could blow up the moon tin DB with much breaking a sweat. Any one have enough scan materials to start a Goku respect thread?
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:34 am
If I recall correctly, the only ones who initially stood up for DBU fairness were myself, Rikeen, and Jerhien. It was mainly because of our efforts that the DBU is now recognized for what it really is.
Anyway, I'll take up your offer on making a Goku respect thread. I should have it done by today.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:22 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta If I recall correctly, the only ones who initially stood up for DBU fairness were myself, Rikeen, and Jerhien. It was mainly because of our efforts that the DBU is now recognized for what it really is. Anyway, I'll take up your offer on making a Goku respect thread. I should have it done by today. I feel kinda left out... I thought some of our debates also led to some of this respect. I'd like to believe that I have always been opened minded and when shown canon evidence that I have always given the DBU side respect. Even when I didn't think he could win I have always at least tried to be open minded enough to look at his abilities and judge from there. So yes to a degree by being on the opposite side of these arguements we have together given more respect to Goku and the4 DBU. Hell I'm a Dragonball fan people seem to keep forgeting this. Most of you guys didn't that during Kyles original thread I was on the Goku side, they were just able to give me more proof that superman could win.
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