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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:57 pm
Best: Reyson
Gotta go with the prince here, given Canto and his refreshing capacity. He's also integral to obtaining the Knight Ring in FE9, and his supports are so fun and help do a lot of building both backstory for the general universe and for him and his support partners. I love it.
Also, if you really want him to fight, he can. Did you guys forget about the Daemon, Reaper, and Spectre Cards in FE10? Reyson can use those.
Worst: Tethys
Unlike Lalum and Ethlin, her support options are less useful, she can't support any Lords, and she's a refresher unit in one of the easiest games in the series, and usually on pretty small maps. Her niche is a little less noteworthy as a result.
Sorry, hon, I love you, but the others are more objectively useful in their own games.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:21 pm
Nobody currently participating is being aggressive or heated. Just so that nobody else decides to use the sweatdrop emote.
However, I will point out the falsehood I just saw: Tethys having lower growth rates
Tethys: HP: 80 | S/M: 5 | SKL: 10 | SPD: 70 | LCK: 80 | DEF: 30 | RES: 75 Elphin: HP: 80 | S/M: 5 | SKL: 5 | SPD: 65 | LCK: 65 | DEF: 25 | RES: 55 Lalum: HP: 70 | S/M: 10 | SKL: 5 | SPD: 70 | LCK: 80 | DEF: 20 | RES: 30
Whose are lower, again?
Maybe you meant average stats.
Tethys: HP: 34 | S/M: 1 | SKL: 3 | SPD: 25 | LCK: 25 | DEF: 10 | RES: 18 Elphin: HP: 30 | S/M: 1 | SKL: 3 | SPD: 20 | LCK: 23 | DEF: 8 | RES: 11 Lalum: HP: 27 | S/M: 2 | SKL: 2 | SPD: 20 | LCK: 24 | DEF: 5 | RES: 9
No, you couldn't have...
Here's the thing: I accept FD's argument about availability. He's not wrong. And all three of them have strong base supports that grow fast (Lalum's with Roy is low and slooooow- not worth it compared to his other options unless you REALLY want that thunder), Tethys having the fastest and strongest (30+4 with Gerik) and just all around stronger and faster growing spread of supports in general.
The availability argument is strong though, and I may change my vote. But, if people are going to vote for Tethys, please do not just go with the crowd or state things about her that aren't true.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:33 pm
I actually didn't consider stats too much for the Lalum/Elphin/Tethys decision because all their growths make them very dodgy and they shouldn't be getting attacked anyway. Especially since they're defenseless, although they can probably dodge-tank to a small extent.
I would also point out the likelihood of them hitting level 20 is probably pretty low unless you're grinding for it.
And Elphin is bulkier, but Lalum is dodgier until they both cap Speed, but Lalum has the higher growth and base stat between the two. It might seem incredibly small, but Lalum has the lead in Speed until she caps at level 14 going by her averages and Elphin doesn't hit the cap until level 17. I don't think either of them would get to those levels in the first place, though unless you're intentionally slowing down to level them up. Lalum's affinity makes her dodgier AND bulkier simultaneously, it's also worth noting, while Elphin's makes him bulkier, but not dodgier as well. They both perform the role nearly equally as well though. And again, I don't think the stats matter too much in this instance given the nature of the class for these entries.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:07 pm
Nomad Rath Nobody currently participating is being aggressive or heated. Just so that nobody else decides to use the sweatdrop emote. However, I will point out the falsehood I just saw: Tethys having lower growth rates Tethys: HP: 80 | S/M: 5 | SKL: 10 | SPD: 70 | LCK: 80 | DEF: 30 | RES: 75 Elphin: HP: 80 | S/M: 5 | SKL: 5 | SPD: 65 | LCK: 65 | DEF: 25 | RES: 55 Lalum: HP: 70 | S/M: 10 | SKL: 5 | SPD: 70 | LCK: 80 | DEF: 20 | RES: 30 Whose are lower, again? Maybe you meant average stats. Tethys: HP: 34 | S/M: 1 | SKL: 3 | SPD: 25 | LCK: 25 | DEF: 10 | RES: 18 Elphin: HP: 30 | S/M: 1 | SKL: 3 | SPD: 20 | LCK: 23 | DEF: 8 | RES: 11 Lalum: HP: 27 | S/M: 2 | SKL: 2 | SPD: 20 | LCK: 24 | DEF: 5 | RES: 9 No, you couldn't have... Here's the thing: I accept FD's argument about availability. He's not wrong. And all three of them have strong base supports that grow fast (Lalum's with Roy is low and slooooow- not worth it compared to his other options unless you REALLY want that thunder), Tethys having the fastest and strongest (30+4 with Gerik) and just all around stronger and faster growing spread of supports in general. The availability argument is strong though, and I may change my vote. But, if people are going to vote for Tethys, please do not just go with the crowd or state things about her that aren't true. I stand corrected. I didn't compare their stats side-by-side, and somehow I thought Tethys had lower growths. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:35 am
Nomad Rath Nobody currently participating is being aggressive or heated. Just so that nobody else decides to use the sweatdrop emote.I can't help but feel that this is toward me since I used the sweatdrop emote in my worst part. sweatdrop But anyway, while it seemed that I "go with the crowd" about Tethys, I did do my research about the refresh units that I had played before making the post. I can't comment about Elphin and Lalum since I haven't play the games they're in. And truth be told, I was thinking about voting Leanne as my worst, but I didn't. The reason why I didn't vote Leanne as worst is not because of her usefulness (aka: Blessing, Canto, etc.) The reason why I didn't vote her is because... Well... I hadn't play FULLY on Radiant Dawn. She was pretty mediocre when I used her at the beginning. However, I can't judge her like that if I only played partial of the game. That would be like making a decision of how the cake is tasted when it's only half-baked. So while I'm aware that Tethys is a decent unit, I'm still standing by my vote due to my experience. So my apologies if you disagree with my decision.
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:09 am
Oh, I did take their growths in consideration. But I didn't vote Tethys the worst because of her growths. Actually when I compared them, she actually does have significantly higher growths compared to the other two. And yeah her average stats are generally better when we get down with it. Her support options are pretty good as far as they go.
But I felt it was the game difference which I do think sets them apart. Interestingly enough, Isa I was also going to vote for Leanne as the worst. I mean she's pretty frail and not nearly as good as someone like Reyson. But maybe I'll end up changing my mind, since it's still pretty early after all.
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:40 am
While I was addressing one post in particular, I was speaking broadly for anybody that hasn't voted yet, not accusing people who have already voted of going with the crowd.
Also, Isadora (and some others), you underestimate the ability to objectively evaluate units just because you haven't played the game or only played part of it. I haven't played 5 passed chapter 2, but I still look up information on characters for each round the best I can. And if people who have played come in and make a strong case for the character, I'll evaluate it, compare, and possibly agree even without having played. For some rounds that doesn't work though, because there's too much subjectivity going on, where the vote is based upon personal experience and opinion rather than pure objective evaluation. However, when one has the ability to get the answers required for voting, such as comparing units, Serenes is the main tool to use, not one's memory of the game, thereby negating the requirement of playing it, though it does help.
You are correct FD, our refreshers hardly ever cap levels unless we're grinding for it, and they all perform their duties just about as well. (Although, if the tactician were to mess up, Tethys has the best chance of surviving- I'm especially fond of that 'high' res) I was mostly posting the growths and stats because I read a reason somebody had voted Tethys was for lower growths, which is clearly false. They've recognized the error now, however.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:34 am
Good. No one's talking smack about Sylvia as a unit or character. I don't have to break anyone's legs.
Best: Leen. As has been said, she can not only reap the benefits of inheritance from Sylvia, but she is in a game where movement is more prioritized than in any other FE game. She, Laylea, and Sylvia are all the more valuable because of that, nevermind the fact that they can refresh four units at once without having to transform into anything! As much as I love Reyson, and as good as he is, he may have superior mobility and various other perks that come with being a heron and not just a dancer/bard, he's not in Movement Emblem. With rings on her fingers and bells on her toes, she shall make music wherever she goes.
Worst: As has been said, there really aren't any bad refresher units. I'm gonna follow the crowd and vote vanilla dancer Tethys. Not vanilla in personality mind you, but rather ability. Mmm, sorry hon, but you need a gimmick.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:09 pm
Sorry to say but this week's best/worst will be delayed until I get back from class tomorrow. I forgot for a while and then I got distracted, plus I don't have a topic for this week. The other unfortunate thing is that it will cause the topic to be shorter this week. There is still time however to get votes in and talk about last week's topic.
-Mel
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:54 pm
This weeks topic is: Best/Worst Weapon Type
To keep things consistent FE13 tomes are still going to be considered Anima and Dark Magic, For Fe1, 3,11, and 12, Starlight, Glower, Nosferatu and Aura are considered to be Light magic, Imhullu is considered to be Dark Magic and Wind/Fire/Thunder will all be counted as Anima. Since only 4/13 games were they separate groups.
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:17 pm
Best: Anima
something magical. Can't decide what type of tome to vote for, but constant 1-2 range is simply inherently superior to all other types of weapons by such a wide margin it takes them to the top of the pack. Other types of weapons have certain 1-2 options but they're generally lacking in durability and are also substantially weaker. That tomes also attack what is usually the lower defensive stat as well seals that deal. As for which to vote for, which type is best depends highly the game, so I'll have to think about how they measure up overall.
Worst: Bows
'Dat perpetual lack of 1-range has curses them to this position. This is not saying they are useless or even "bad" or that all bow users suck.
But just looking at how each weapon type functions, even with their occasional niche uses and selling points, cumulatively and objectively they're bound to fall to the bottom.
Send your condolences to the mono-bow units. Those poor, poor souls.
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:56 pm
Best: Anima magic I agree with what FD said about magic in general. Out of the three types, I think it's the most balanced, by which I mean that it's decently powerful and decently accurate. Dark magic tends to be stronger, but not as accurate (a problem compounded by dark mages tending to have lower Skill and/or Speed stats). Light magic is far more accurate, but tends to be less powerful (or powerful tomes are only available later in the game).
Dark and Light magic certainly have their strengths and can also be better depending on which game you're playing, but Anima seems to be a better all-purpose weapon type to me.
Worst: Bows Again, I agree with what FD said about bows. Very few bows with 1-range means less versatility and less chance to counter means the units that use them tend to fall behind in levels. Even their advantage against flying units isn't exclusively theirs, as Wind magic has a similar effect.
The only big advantage I saw in using bows was the 2-3 range of Longbows that no other weapon group has (at least without taking a hit to accuracy).
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:59 pm
I have a question.
Only in some of the games is "anima" an entire school of magic that includes all elements. However, I wouldn't vote that school of magic best (at least not at the time). What if I wanted to vote for FE4/5 wind magic or FE9/10 thunder magic, for instance? Am I correct in saying that if I want to talk about things like that, I would have to vote for the specific element of magic and not just the all-purpose "Anima?"
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:04 pm
FE4/5/9/10 still group its fire/thunder/wind together under the same roof, so I'd say personally that they should all be counted together as anima.
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:51 pm
How is it under the same roof if you have distinct weapon ranks for all of them, though? And in FE4/10, specifically, you have units that can't even wield all of the types at once.
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