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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:54 pm
Oh, I can definitely understand that. And why people would totally like them. The Sol Katti just doesn't really do a thing for me at all. -shrugs-
I don't really have much against Durandal though. I do think there's more merit for that one at least in comparison.
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:18 pm
Ninja Ryu11 But how is it almost insulting? That I'm unsure of myself... Or maybe it's because I'm missing something... -shrugs- I mean doesn't it kind of make sense for it to suit Owain given that he's well... Like ya know supposed to be silly? Could be just me but I don't really feel bothered by it. Also I do find it interesting to see Sword of Seals as a worst weapon here. Me personally, I always thought it kind of made Roy like better confused He wasn't exactly really good to begin in the first place. But with that sword, he at least could deal a good chunk of damage with it. I mean yeah, it does have only 20 uses... But I don't think it's that bad. Oh yeah. Forgot that Roy becomes usable after he gets it. Never mind that, then; I don't know what I'd vote for worst if I didn't vote Missiletainn. I think that it's insulting because, while it does give some bonuses, I don't think it's really any better than a Steel Sword. Maybe if it had the same Hit as a Steel Sword I wouldn't be offended, but it always just felt like a variation instead of an upgrade. Most of the time when I switched between Steel Sword and Missiletainn in combat, the only real change I saw was the +10 crit. Like, the +1 Skill was negated by the -10 Hit. I guess it's because I like Owain that I found it slightly insulting. He comes across as someone who takes something ordinary and makes it extraordinary in his own odd way. And the Missiletainn we got in-game just didn't live up to that. (This is my own interpretation of Owain and I know that opinions differ. Just wanted to try and explain why I think what I think.)
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:42 pm
Best: Holsety
Duh.
Worst: Missiletain
You know the worst thing about the Missiletainn? When you're farming legendary weapons in Infinite Regalia and you get a Missiletainn instead of something actually good.
I consider SoS a good weapon. Imagine if Roy never obtained it at all (and you can always Hammerne it). I consider Sol Katti a bad one (but Mani Katti is really good, at least).
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:38 am
Best: All right gotta go with Holsety. Enough been said about it.
Worst: Owain's personal weapon? Never got it honestly. The REAL misseltain is a better weapon than that.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:57 am
This week's Best/Worst is Refreshing unit (Note: Ninian/Nils are considered to be 1 unit)
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:23 pm
So picking up from where we left off in the blast!
I don't see how the substitute is far superior to Leen though? And even if she is technically better, how does that make her worse than other refresher units?
What makes this class type good: 1)Number of units that can be refreshed. 2)Ability to fight. 3)Defensive stats. 4)Mobility. 5) Other feats (buffs, reclass, etc.)
Leen: 1) 4. 2) Yes. 3) Arguably better. 4) Knight and Leg ring inheritance. 5) None to my memory. Elphin, Lalum, Tethys: 1) 1. 2) No. 3) Arguably worse 4) Normal foot unit mobility. 5) None.
I'll just let that sink in for you and maybe later you'll decide to stop being defensive when we discuss things for a discussion topic, and try to look at things objectively, since 'that's just how I played the game' and 'I'll just stick to my choice' are really annoying and counter productive answers for the purpose of this topic, and I frankly don't appreciate it. If you can't defend your vote and you aren't open to changing your mind in the face of discussion, then why are you here. Just saying.
Or you can just delete your post altogether, which really isn't any better. More annoying, actually. because it proves you have no intent on discussing in a discussion topic.
Best: still deciding
Worst: Lalum
Decision was between her, Elphin and Tethys. Elphin and Tethys both have superior average stats.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:43 pm
I do not understand how any of the following units could be considered the worst in the series: Reyson, Rafiel, Leen, Laylea, Sylvia. When they all refresh a whopping four units per turn. Even if they’re inferior to another option (and between Reyson or Rafiel and Leen or Laylea, someone would be better and the other worse in both instances), up to four units a turn is so enormously superior to just refreshing one unit a turn any way you slice it and it’s saying someone with that awesome potential is worse than any of the number of refreshers in the series that can only refresh one unit a turn.
As for best, I’m torn between Leen, Laylea, Rafiel, and FE10 Reyson. They can all refresh four units and it comes down to nuances in arguing one over the others. Between Rafiel and Reyson, Rafiel always refreshes four units, but doesn’t have Canto and can’t gain it in any way, whereas Leen and Laylea can use a Knight Right. Reyson by contrast, is objectively better when transformed but he has to transform and that costs at LEAST a single turn if you utilize a Laguz Stone or Gem, and more if you rely on Olivi Grass. There are plenty of resources around to allow him to transform, but it becomes a question of whether that constantly-existing turn cost to transform him and become better is objectively better. I do think Canto can be worth it because it allows for more flexibility in strategies and approaches to chapters, and there are enough Laguz Stones and Gems to transform Reyson fast so I do consider him better for his flexibility, but not completely outclassing Rafiel.
With Leen and Laylea, Laylea has Charisma, but Leen can inherit items from her mother and is arguably objectively the best candidate for inheriting both the Leg Ring and Knight Ring. Her inheriting these things also means Sylvia was utilizing them which is even more beneficial. She can also gain additional skills and stats from a father. Laylea can perform just as well as Leen if given the Leg and Knight Rings, but she can’t inherit them thus won’t start with them and has to be given the resources to afford them: 80,000 gold. You could use just one or none at all and then the needed gold wouldn’t be nearly as much of an issue if one at all, but she suddenly isn’t functioning as well as she could otherwise. Sylvia also requires being given these resources to be at her best, but joins before you get either and it is easier and more beneficial for the entirety of the game to give them to her in Part 1 and spend the resources there so two Dancers benefit for the price of the resources only spent once and for the greatest amount of time. Laylea has the highest overall potential because she can buy the rings and have Charisma on top of that, but she’ll simultaneously never be able to have the rings as early as Leen, and those rings easily outweigh Charisma by itself. How long it would take for Laylea to get the rings and what effort it would require probably determines it, but I’m inclined to argue Leen over Laylea for being able to start with the Rings and thus be of more use for her entire tenure whereas Laylea would only surpass her performance with those rings for a shorter period of time. It’s not unlike Nino having higher stats if raised and babied, but Pent and Erk contributing more overall.
Between Reyson and Leen, I really can’t decide. It gets NARROW just with these top four candidates I’m looking at. Herons can heal small amounts of damage at the start of every turn and can fly around more easily. Dancers have Swords to participate in combat and there are a number of 1-2 range swords available to utilize, in addition to swords that boost their defenses. Herons can give another unit support bonuses and Reyson has a good affinity. The Dancers are in much longer maps and thus help you traverse them more quickly. I’m going to ponder it a bit and maybe then I’ll have decided between the two camps.
Worst: Tethys
I was torn between Elphin and Tethys. I originally had Lalum in consideration as well since the three of them have the least to offer as a refreshing unit: one a turn, can’t wield any weapons, no special rings, no canto. Of the three, Lalum got off the hook for having more support options (including the Pimp Lord, Roy; he’s the character of the week, by the way. You should drop by there after posting here!). Elphin and Tethys both have the same number of supports, but I then realized FE6 has longer maps and Elphin can also be around for more chapters than Tethys is in FE8. So map size and availability are what made Tethys seem the worse by comparison.
Still, worst at something really great doesn’t mean bad. I definitely consider Tethys a good unit.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:52 pm
Please point out the disrespect. Please. And no, not agreeing with your opinion does not equate to disrespect, nor does proving your arguments invalid. Nor does me calling out the attitude and rudeness from somebody who never had any intention of discussing in a discussion topic. You're being defensive and taking things personal, when there's no need to. Or you can delete your post. Again.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:24 pm
Best: FE9 Reyson (I can't say anything about FE10 Reyson since I hadn't pass Part 2 and I hadn't had the chance to see how Reyson did.) Although Reyson doesn't fight back like Olivia or any dancer that can use sword, I pick him for not only having the ability to refresh four people, but also having the ability to Canto and Blessing. Quite helpful to heal your units when it's your turn to play.
Worst: Tethys. Not saying she's terrible as both FD and Rath pointed out that her stats are decent. It's just that her stats and growth aren't as great as the other refresh units. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:13 pm
Ok. This is getting really out of hand. If all of you are done I would like that all of you stop. I'm getting mad at everyone and if I see any more of this nonsense I will make people sit out of discussions for a few weeks.
This is suppose to be a fun and mature talk about Fire Emblem. Not a topic where if things are the way that you like it, you make counter points and be aggressive on the matter. Not to mention other things that have gone on.
If you would like to talk to be about this talk to me privately.
(Meant to post this sooner but bleh distractions.)
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:24 pm
Well dang looks like some disagreement is going on around here. sweatdrop
Best: Sylvia, Leen, and FE10 Reyson are probably the best condidates I think would be best for this spot. But If I had to choose, I'll have to give it to Leen. All of them do use resources in different ways. But I feel it's not nearly as costly with Leen being able to inherit items from her mother. Once she gets them, she doesn't have to worry about anything else, she has what she needs and she can contribute to the group pretty well. It does cost alot sure, but you have a good amount of time to get funds in Generation 1. With FE10 Reyson, you'll have to rely constantly on Laguz stones, or Olivi grass in order transform to have that refreshing ability. With Leen she already can do the exact same thing but there's no requirement. And I'd argue she isn't nearly as frail, nor does she have weaknesses. Plus the maps are kind of vast and wider, since FE4 has pretty much seize all the forts objective goal. Also, she could inherit skills depending on who the father is. And I guess she can kind of fight a bit. It's a personal preference of mine so call it as you will.
Worst: I was going to go with Lalum, or Elphin but I think her support options are actually really quite good. I mean yeah Elphin only has about 4 support options that could be a reason to vote him as the worst. And maybe his growths aren't nearly as better as the others. But considering that FE6 is a harder game, there's more gaiden chapters and maps in comparison. I'd think there's a benefit in having them around for the support options. So instead I will go with Tethys. Now, I do like her as a unit. And she could certainly grow just fine, but it's just she's not nearly as useful in comparison.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:34 pm
eek Wow. I didn't know this was such a, uh... heated(?) topic. I'll do my best to stay objective. sweatdrop
Best: Reyson (FE10) I'm not going to vote for any character in a game I haven't played, so I'm voting for Reyson. No combat skills, but with flying and canto, I never thought he needed them. Going with FE10 instead of FE9 because you can control when he transforms in FE10, and if you have a laguz gem by Endgame, he's set.
Worst: Tethys I didn't really know who to pick here, but due to lack of combat skills and lower growth rates, I'm voting for Tethys here. I might've voted for Elphin, but due to the difficulty of FE6, any refresher unit was welcome (even though I hardly used them in my playthrough).
EDIT: I really need to check stuff side-by-side before saying anything because my short-term memory about a line of numbers really sucks. (aka, Tethys doesn't have lower stats, and Rath pointed that out). Thanks for correcting me.
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:49 pm
Best: Leen
For the time being, I'm going with Leen for best due to the greater value placed on mobility in FE4 due to enormous map sizes. Dancers help you get people around faster. Plus, that (minimum of one) turn Reyson has to spend every chapter before he's at his full potential isn't negligible. Either way, they're both fantastic, though.
I could change my mind later though. If something comes to my attention to suggest a different choice. It's a tight race to the top for refreshers.
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