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 Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:37 am
I'd say I have to agree with JastaElf!!!
- I love the idea of defining it as the hope that someone doea the right thing at the right time.
>>>and when a man holds a door for me, I always thank him politely--then, because he has let me go first, I hold the next one for him. It's a door that swings both ways. <<<<<
AMEN! to that!
- - but you kow what... I'd have to say, I love it when men hold the door open for me, pull my chair out, offer to pay for dinner! 50% of the time I won't let him pay and I'll make sure I pay before him. But I like the offer!
- In my family - when several of the houses get together and have dinner. At the end of the meal all the man stand up and try to pay. It's still expected in my family that the Dad can provided for his brood. ((Even though my mom is the one that makes the money! *lol*)) But all in all - It's every one trying to do the right thing and honor the other guests by paying for their meal.
- - and damn it! I like being treated like a Princess! Flowers - holding the door - all that good stuff... Women and Men... for all the same that they are - they are different. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing! I love the fact that I am a women. I wish more women would just acknowledge that - "he's just trying to be nice - yes it's because your a women - but why is that so bad?" - - - So he wants to help you with the door? So he wants to help you carry your packages? SO FREAKING WHAT?! If he dropped something from his pocket - you'd bend over to help him pick it up right?! Well then?!
Okay I'm going to stop here and catch my breath....
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Ah, so you've been reading the previous posts, huh? Cool!
I like to do nice things for the ladies I love like, my aunt for example. If she's gonna get on a car, I open the door for her or even pull out a chair, you know? I think I would treat my wife as a princess and I don't have a problem with doing it as long as I'm able. Common courtesy is something, but gallantry/chivalry is something that not everyone has.
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:40 pm
From an historic perspective, it's certainly important to differentiate the two. smile Chivalry can involve being nice to women, but it also involves a lot more. And chivalry for a woman would partly be politeness to men... but there too, it's much more complicated.
And for the record, I like having doors and chairs held for me, and I love getting flowers! smile
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:38 am
Yeah, I guess the whole thing can get complicated sometimes. It's too bad we can't remember things like they were data in our brains like files or whatever.
Say Jasta, do you only like actual flowers or do you like virtual ones as well?
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:42 am
It is nice to know someone else besides me has seen Le Chevalier D'eon, Leihiar. whee Another thing to take into consideration when examining the concepts of Chivalry and courtly love is that during the time periods they were prominent, most of the affairs committed by the knights would only be considering emotionally adulterous. Although he may have chosen a patron lady who happened to be married to woo and fight his battles in the name of, much like the character Don Quixote, their love was an unrequited one more often than not. So, the closest that the majority of those couples would come to consummating such a relationship would be through the letters, poems, songs, etc. they would write for one another. This is why what happened between Guenevere and Lancelot in the tale of Camelot was so scandalous. 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:33 pm
I've never read Don Quixote (we call it Don Quijote) but I've sure seen some stuff about it. I remember seeing a cartoon and a movie about it with John Lithgow. That guy is a really cool actor! 3nodding
I've also seen two movies about King Arthur and they don't really match up. I mean, in one it was like King Arthur wanted revenge on Lancelot and in the other, it seemed like he wasn't such a revenge driven man. rolleyes
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:00 pm
I do think in the days of old it meant mostly something more on the scandalous side of things - but it's almost a scandalous now for men to treat women like they are princesses whee !! I adore being treated as such and have had friends of mine - think I was insane because I wanted to have the door held for me, ect. It's like when a women wants to stay home and take care of her children and not work outside the home. A lot of women are offended that said mother doesn't want to "work" - Like being a mother isn't a FULL time job?! If mom wants to stay home, I applaud her for it.
Don't get me wrong, if Dad wants to stay home - go for it! - but... I'm just saying....
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:10 pm
Yeah, I've heard about that; how some women see the stay at home mom like it's some kind of crime or something. rolleyes
Lately, my cousin Oscar has been a kind of stay home dad but not all the time. He found a job and now he can't stay home enough.
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:24 pm
Fauxlorne I do think in the days of old it meant mostly something more on the scandalous side of things I think people have the wrong idea about the historical notion of Courtly Love... It certainly did not mean adultery. It happened, yes, and when it came to light those involved were punished. But the idea of what Courtly Love was supposed to be did not actually go that far. It was really just playing at being in love with someone; making flowery speeches and songs, flirting, dressing to impress a certain person. But all bets were off when you went home to your spouse. They were your spouse and that was who you slept with. This is separate from chivalry, though Knights were often the subjects of Courtly Love. Chivalry is more a code of loyalty and honor than it is a code of how to treat the opposite sex. The loyalty part was to the Knight's King. Period. They owed everything to their King and certain things were expected of them in return. This wasn't necessarily limited to Knights, either. Lords, Barons, Counts, et cetera were also subject to it. This was the system that held Europe together throughout the medieval period. Chivalry and Courtly Love are two separate things, historically. It's a very modern idea that Knights wore shining armor, rescued maidens, and fought for love. Berz.
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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:07 am
Absolutely true--and it's nice to see another LOTR fan and SCA person here! smile
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:32 pm
Thanks for the welcome. ^_^
Berz.
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:31 am
It's always great to see new members here, yes. And I'm sure we all thank you for yer post dated "Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:24 pm". It was very informative. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:42 pm
hypnocrown Say Jasta, do you only like actual flowers or do you like virtual ones as well?
Especially daffodils and roses! smile
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:03 am
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:39 pm
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