Reformed Baptist
CCubed
Respectfully, are you lutheran? Are you telling me that taking in a dying puppy and saving it and giving it a warm bed, food, and water is not good? That because of the fall we are incapable of good? There are many times in the bible where someone is praised for their good deeds.
The doctrine of total depravity, however does not teach that man is as wicked as he could possibly be. For example, Adolf Hitler, who often serves as the paradigm of human evil, surely had some behavioral patterns that were not utterly base. Perhaps Hitler loved his mother and at times was even kind to her. Total depravity refers to the effect of sin and corruption on the whole person. To be totally depraved is to suffer from corruption that pervades the whole person. Sin affects every aspect of our being: the body, the soul, the mind, the will, and so forth. The total or whole person is corrupted by sin. No vestigial "island of righteousness" escapes the influence of the fall.
Jesus frequently described this condition with images drawn from nature. Just as a corrupt tree yields corrupt fruit, so sin flows out of a corrupt human nature. We are not sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners. Since the fall human nature has been corrupt. We are born with a sin nature. Our acts of sin flow out of this corrupted nature.
The Apostle Paul, citing the Old Testament, summarizes the universal condition of sin:
Romans 3:9-18
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”“Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
CCubed
In fact, John is called the "Loving Disciple." Are you saying that Loving is bad? Jesus died so we can enter heaven, we are capable of good, because when the thief asked him to remember him when he entered his heaven, he praised the thief's repentence and brought him into heaven.
Now, I never said that the born again Christian were not capable of doing good. We Christians have been freed from the bondage of sin, counted as righteous, capable of doing good and having the ability to please God.
Rom.3
[1]
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?
[2] Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews are entrusted with the oracles of God.
[3] What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?
[4] By no means! Let God be true though every man be false, as it is written, "That thou mayest be justified in thy words,
and prevail when thou art judged."
[5] But if our wickedness serves to show the justice of God, what shall we say? That God is unjust to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)
[6] By no means! For then how could God judge the world?
[7] But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
[8] And why not do evil that good may come? -- as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
[9]
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all; for I have already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin,
[10] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;
[11] no one understands, no one seeks for God.
[12] All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong;
no one does good, not even one."
[13] "Their throat is an open grave,
they use their tongues to deceive."
"The venom of asps is under their lips."
[14] "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness."
[15] "Their feet are swift to shed blood,
[16] in their paths are ruin and misery,
[17] and the way of peace they do not know."
[18] "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
[19]
Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.
[20] For no human being will be justified in his sight by works of the law, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
[21]
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it,
[22] the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction;
[23] since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[25] whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins;
[26] it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.
[27]
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith.
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
[29] Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
[30] since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith.
[31] Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
That is the entirety of Romans 3. You took out part of the book and used it as you wished, however you have used it and totally choose to forget the rest of it. You cannot take parts of a story and understand it as you cannot take parts of the bible and understand them. This book doesn't say that man is incapable of good, it would be a contradiction if it did. We were made in God's image, if God is the greatest good, we too must be capable of good. If you knew what Paul was talking about, you wouldn't have used this passage. Paul was telling the Romans two things:
A) You cannot justify yourselves by the law
B) The unfaithfullness of some Catholic's doesn't mean that all Catholic's are evil
C) God is in the end always truth even if every man speaks wrong
D) When he says as it is written, He's refering to the israelites when Moses received the commandants and they created idols and returned to the old ways. He is alluring to the fact that the Romans are acting the same way. Also, if you read Romans 1 and 2 you'll understand he's talking about the sins of Rome and no one else. AS it says in Romans 1:19 -27:
[19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
[20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;
[21] for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened.
[22] Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
[23] and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.
[24]
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
[25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.
[26]
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
[27] and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
Once more he is talking about the Israelites and alluring to the Romans being like them. Note not all Romans were like this as he says in Romans 1:8:
[8]
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.
