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The Great Moon Hoax Goto Page: [] [<] 1 2 3 4 [>] [»|]

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Did we really land on the moon?
  ...uh are you serious! Of course we did!
  ..now I'm not sure.
  It's was all fake! We've never been to the moon!
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Diamond Nova
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:55 pm


VoijaRisa
Emily`s_Gone_Mad
lol

I don't think anyone has said we NEVER landed on the moon....
Did I read the poll wrong then? Because it looked to me like 5 people did!

whee
I bet some people wanted to be funny! rolleyes

I personally am torn, but I do think we might have landed on the moon. I mean, we had the technology, it just wasn't what it is today. So what our tech stuff was more primitive in the 60's, that doesn't mean we didn't make it.

I can also see where people don't think we have gone to the moon. We were in a space race. We wanted to win because that's what we Americans want. We want to WIN! I could totally see us faking photos and movie clips just so that we can show the world that we are on top, although sooner or later we might be found out.

As for the journals, I don't know about that really, but I do agree that they should be put into a museum at NASA or on display.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:19 pm


VoijaRisa
Emily`s_Gone_Mad
lol

I don't think anyone has said we NEVER landed on the moon....
Did I read the poll wrong then? Because it looked to me like 5 people did!

whee



haha
I didn't even realize that.
XP

rofl

I guess no one reads polls these days....unless...they did..o.o


lol

Emily`s_Gone_Mad


JessiDlux93

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:30 pm


Eh, It hard to say, but there are quite a fue things that point to untrue....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:34 am


JessiDlux93
Eh, It hard to say, but there are quite a fue things that point to untrue....
Such as.....

I have yet to see a single one that hasn't been debunked repeatedly.

VoijaRisa


saphria_eragon
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:44 pm


I say the US landed on the moon, it's just a lot of people find it hard to believe.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:58 am


I will attempt to debunk each arguement of the "NASA faked the moon landings" crowd point by point.

Arguement 1: The flag ripples in a "wind"

The flag swings when the pole is being positioned by the astronauts, like a pendulum. The flag is still flexible, and will respond to movements of the pole and support rod with a wave-like motion, and much more rapidly than in an atmosphere environment. In the video footage I have seen, the flag moves precisely the way one would expect it to in an ariless environment.

Arguement 2: The astronauts are see-through

Have you seen the size of the video camera mounted to the swing-out pole on the moon lander? Have you seen the size of studio TV cameras used in the late sixties? Obviously the video footage is rather crappy - they couldn't exactly mount a half-tonne TV camera dolly to the side of the lander. Also, transmitting a TV picture that distance using sixties era analogue transmitters was an increadible feat, and we should be thankful that any image at all was received. In fact, compare the actual footage to Kubric'ks lovely images in 2001: A Space Oddessy. If NASA did fake the landing, would they really deliberately muddy-up their images and make it look less real?

Arguement 3: There are no stars in the sky.

Take a camera, either film or digital, to your local mall at night time, and stand in the brightly-lit carpark, aim your camera at the horizon such that it captures sky and brightly lit features (replicating the bright moon surface) and study the resulting picture. See any stars? No? Not surprising considering how dim stars are relative to the lights in the carpark and how small the camera's aperture was. Now do the same experiment with a modern handicam. Any better? Not likely. And finally, if it were possible, use an incredibly miniturised 1969 camera and transmit the image across a huge gulf of vacuum. See any stars?

Arguement 4: The dust from the rover's wheels is wrong

First of all, the first moon landing did not use a rover at all, so if you use this argument you must be refuting ALL moon landings, not just the first. From the footage I have seen, the dust appears to describe just the motion you would expect from any particle moving through an airless environment and being accelerated towards the surface at 1.6 metres per second (the figure is from memory - correct me if I am wrong please).

Arguement 5: The scene is "closed" like in a studio

The close horizon is exactly what you would expect on such a small planet, with a much more noticeable surface curve.

If anyone has any more arguements for this mouldy old conspiracy theory, please allow me to shoot them down for you, if I can. This theory has been around for quite some time - see the movie Capricorn One, where a Mars landing was faked. In this film the "astronauts" were hunted down after the faked "landing" so they could never reveal the deception. How many NASA astronauts died mysteriously after missions to the moon? Would NASA really have so many people walking around how could blow the whole deception if they really did fake it all?

Also, Occam's Razor dictates that a manned moon landing was much more likely that a covered-up unmanned mission (something placed the mirrors and retrieved the lunar samples) and almost four decades of lies upon lies upon lies. It seems to me that it would be easier, using sixties technology, to construct a spacecraft capable of maintaining life support for three men than it would be to build a robot to do the same thing. Computers in the sixties were totally s**t! The Apollo 13 crew turned theirs off because it just wasn't helping!

Worm of Morgoth


Emily`s_Gone_Mad

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:59 pm


Worm of Morgoth
I will attempt to debunk each arguement of the "NASA faked the moon landings" crowd point by point.


Arguement 3: There are no stars in the sky.

Take a camera, either film or digital, to your local mall at night time, and stand in the brightly-lit carpark, aim your camera at the horizon such that it captures sky and brightly lit features (replicating the bright moon surface) and study the resulting picture. See any stars? No? Not surprising considering how dim stars are relative to the lights in the carpark and how small the camera's aperture was. Now do the same experiment with a modern handicam. Any better? Not likely. And finally, if it were possible, use an incredibly miniturised 1969 camera and transmit the image across a huge gulf of vacuum. See any stars?


Well if your at a mall your not going to see any stars, anywhere in the city you most likely won't see any stars because of all the light pollution. You need to go out to the middle of nowhere...out in the country or desert...where there there are no city lights..or lights of anykind...maybe your camera can cause enough light pollution to hide all the stars in the sky....I don't know much about camera's so...I just know using the "mall" is irrelevent...




Quote:
If anyone has any more arguements for this mouldy old conspiracy theory, please allow me to shoot them down for you, if I can. This theory has been around for quite some time - see the movie Capricorn One, where a Mars landing was faked. In this film the "astronauts" were hunted down after the faked "landing" so they could never reveal the deception. How many NASA astronauts died mysteriously after missions to the moon? Would NASA really have so many people walking around how could blow the whole deception if they really did fake it all?


I don't think NASA would...but the white house... yeah. And of course no one is going to speak up, who's going to embarress our Country like that?
A few posts up, or on the previous pages I posted this link to this "documentory" about it, in which "Witnesses" make confessions to what really happend.

I don't think our first moon landing was about NASA or anything scientific- I don't think that for a second. It was a political race to the moon, and I can believe that the whitehouse would do something like stage a moonlanding. The white house if full of conspericy's...

I think you mentioned one of your fav. Sci-Fi movies was Space Odessy 2001 or something like that? I don't know if you know but the guy who they say staged this moon landing was the same guy that made that movie. o.o
XP


Quote:
Also, Occam's Razor dictates that a manned moon landing was much more likely that a covered-up unmanned mission (something placed the mirrors and retrieved the lunar samples) and almost four decades of lies upon lies upon lies. It seems to me that it would be easier, using sixties technology, to construct a spacecraft capable of maintaining life support for three men than it would be to build a robot to do the same thing. Computers in the sixties were totally s**t! The Apollo 13 crew turned theirs off because it just wasn't helping!


Well of course we've been to the moon...
but the first moonlanding can deffinatly be questioned, as there is no absolute proof that we ever went there in the 60's.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:19 pm


Well if your at a mall your not going to see any stars, anywhere in the city you most likely won't see any stars because of all the light pollution. You need to go out to the middle of nowhere...out in the country or desert...where there there are no city lights..or lights of anykind...maybe your camera can cause enough light pollution to hide all the stars in the sky....I don't know much about camera's so...I just know using the "mall" is irrelevent...

I used the mall as a model because it is usually a brightly lit area at night. The point I am making is that because the surface of the moon was brightly lit by the sun, and the moon's surface material iis quite reflective, there was a lot of light pouring into the cameras lens from the surface. This requires the camera to have a small aperture to correctly resolve an image. The light from the stars is just too faint for enough of it to get through the small aperture and generate an image.
In fact, it is very difficult to take a picture of the stars here on Earth, even away from light sources. With a still camera you need a tripod to hold the camera still for a long exposure, with a wide open aperture. I haven't tried this myself but I doubt if your average handicam would resolve much of an image pointing it up into the night sky, even without a bright foreground like in the moon landing footage.

I mention Stanley Kubrick in my earlier post (arguement 2) as more evidence for the reality of the landing. His movie sequences are perfect, whereas the actual moon footage is much lower resolution. Would NASA (or the White House) really have deliberately made a poor quality film that seemed to show faults and errors when they had the ability to fake a perfect movie?

Also, I quite agree with you about NASA and the White House. I just think it would have been actually more difficult to fake the original landing than to actually do it. And if you accept that the later missions in the early seventies did happen, how likely is it that the movie fakers got it so right? Footage from later mission matches exactly with the so-called faked footage.

Another point I could make that I forgot to make in my earlier post: Until recent times, with the advent of computer generated images, no movie (including 2001) could accurately portray low-gravity walking. They either had people suspended on strings or (as was the case in 2001) they just kind of walked slowly. The moon base sequences in Kubricks film make no attempt whatsoever to portray low gravity movement, but surely if Kubrick perfected this special effect for the "faked" moon footage, why wouldn't he use the same technology for his masterpiece movie?

Worm of Morgoth


Emily`s_Gone_Mad

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:22 pm


So your saying we landed on the moon during the day?
NOt the night?
Becuase if that were so, then of course the're would be no stars.

I agree that the argument of no stars is rather pathetic..but if it was so bright as you say..then we landed on the moon during the day?

I can understand that.

Perhaps all footage we have ever seen of people on the moon is fake.
I'm not saying we've never been on the moon, but possible fake footage...sure - I can belive that.

And I do think that the white house...would make a low resolution film...because after all it would appear more real. xd
People in the white house aren't stupid, just sneaky...and then when they get caught they seem stupid...XP ...cuz you would think they would be smarter and not get caught...lol
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:22 am


Come to think of it, I am just assuming that the landings were done in the lunar daytime because at lunar night-time you wouldn't be able to see anything at all. Because the Moon lacks an atmosphere, the lunar daytime sky would look no different to the lunar night sky, with the obvious exception of the sun being in it of course.

As you can probably tell I get a bit cranky when I hear about this whole moon landing hoax thing, which is not entirely fair on my part. It is, I suppose, possible that the first landing was hoaxed - I just don't think it was, partly because as a child I was totally enamoured of the whole rockets/spaceships/astronauts thing. I had models of the Saturn V and lunar lander, and absolutely devoured any book or TV show on the subject. Telling me it was all faked is like telling a sports fan that every football game played for the last thirty years was fixed.

Worm of Morgoth


Jad-Hoven

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:31 am


Worm of Morgoth
Come to think of it, I am just assuming that the landings were done in the lunar daytime because at lunar night-time you wouldn't be able to see anything at all. Because the Moon lacks an atmosphere, the lunar daytime sky would look no different to the lunar night sky, with the obvious exception of the sun being in it of course.

As you can probably tell I get a bit cranky when I hear about this whole moon landing hoax thing, which is not entirely fair on my part. It is, I suppose, possible that the first landing was hoaxed - I just don't think it was, partly because as a child I was totally enamoured of the whole rockets/spaceships/astronauts thing. I had models of the Saturn V and lunar lander, and absolutely devoured any book or TV show on the subject. Telling me it was all faked is like telling a sports fan that every football game played for the last thirty years was fixed.


Nice scientific thinking you need to keep an open mind. I had the same initial reaction (utter dismissal) then I started doing my research (have been at it on and off for awhile now) and I am more or less convinced that none of the footage released was faked. I had a misconception earlier about the rover (thought they had one on apollo 11 for some reason).

I did find out that Apollo 11 did place Retroreflectors on the moon that these were used by scientists worldwide in experiments to verify the distance to the moon. (Conspiracy theorist point out that an unmanned mission could have delivered them to provide false physical evidence for the landing but that just seems sort of grasping to me).

Also Apollo 11 did take rock samples. These have been examined by scienists around the world and I am fairly certain that no Articles exist in any Peer Review Journals that dispute the claim that the rocks were in fact taken from the moon "The Apollo samples are easily distinguishable from both meteorites and terrestrial rocks in that they show a complete lack of hydrous alteration products, they show evidence for having been subjected to impact events on an airless body, and they have unique geochemical characteristics".

Its good to keep an open mind and look into this on your own but I think there is pretty substantial evidence that we did in fact land on the moon. A pretty good starting point is the moon hoax site on wikipedia if you want detailed debunkings of the different camera/filming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_Landing_hoax_accusations) is a pretty good starting point. You can also get an official outline of the mission from (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11) so you can know what did and didn't supposedly occur on the first mission (since it is pretty much the only one under serious contention here)

I can certainly believe that our government would try to decieve us, and they they might have had backup footage filmed in a studio in case something went wrong with the landing, but I do think that we actually landed there. I have difficulty imagining the Soviets not realizing a fake when they saw it (and subsequently calling us on it, or doing one of their own). Also have any of you seen the South Park about the 9/11 conspiracy? This is a different conspiracy to be sure but I find it less likely that the government could have been powerful and together enough to decieved so much of the public (both here and abroad) than to belive that we managed to make it to the moon.

One final not I rewatched the Documentary Dark Side of The Moon that you posted. By far the most compelling evidence I saw in it was the personal testimonies, however if look carefully you will notice how heavily edited some of the clips are (you see the same think in Farenheit 9/11 and several news programs) it is basically indicative of taking a quote out of context (I know the one he got from Kissinger was since it was from a public recording the other interviews are a lot harder to verify). While it isn't technically lying it is an attempt to mislead you and should make you wary about how much you trust the source. (yes I am attacking the creator of the film for staging misleading interviews, almost as if he were faking them wink )
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 4:42 pm


i believe that man has landed on the moon. That would be a horrible thing for NASA to fake! lol

DarkenedAngel00


Emily`s_Gone_Mad

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:08 pm


Jad-Hoven
Worm of Morgoth
Come to think of it, I am just assuming that the landings were done in the lunar daytime because at lunar night-time you wouldn't be able to see anything at all. Because the Moon lacks an atmosphere, the lunar daytime sky would look no different to the lunar night sky, with the obvious exception of the sun being in it of course.

As you can probably tell I get a bit cranky when I hear about this whole moon landing hoax thing, which is not entirely fair on my part. It is, I suppose, possible that the first landing was hoaxed - I just don't think it was, partly because as a child I was totally enamoured of the whole rockets/spaceships/astronauts thing. I had models of the Saturn V and lunar lander, and absolutely devoured any book or TV show on the subject. Telling me it was all faked is like telling a sports fan that every football game played for the last thirty years was fixed.


Nice scientific thinking you need to keep an open mind. I had the same initial reaction (utter dismissal) then I started doing my research (have been at it on and off for awhile now) and I am more or less convinced that none of the footage released was faked. I had a misconception earlier about the rover (thought they had one on apollo 11 for some reason).

I did find out that Apollo 11 did place Retroreflectors on the moon that these were used by scientists worldwide in experiments to verify the distance to the moon. (Conspiracy theorist point out that an unmanned mission could have delivered them to provide false physical evidence for the landing but that just seems sort of grasping to me).

Also Apollo 11 did take rock samples. These have been examined by scienists around the world and I am fairly certain that no Articles exist in any Peer Review Journals that dispute the claim that the rocks were in fact taken from the moon "The Apollo samples are easily distinguishable from both meteorites and terrestrial rocks in that they show a complete lack of hydrous alteration products, they show evidence for having been subjected to impact events on an airless body, and they have unique geochemical characteristics".

Its good to keep an open mind and look into this on your own but I think there is pretty substantial evidence that we did in fact land on the moon. A pretty good starting point is the moon hoax site on wikipedia if you want detailed debunkings of the different camera/filming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_Landing_hoax_accusations) is a pretty good starting point. You can also get an official outline of the mission from (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11) so you can know what did and didn't supposedly occur on the first mission (since it is pretty much the only one under serious contention here)

I can certainly believe that our government would try to decieve us, and they they might have had backup footage filmed in a studio in case something went wrong with the landing, but I do think that we actually landed there. I have difficulty imagining the Soviets not realizing a fake when they saw it (and subsequently calling us on it, or doing one of their own). Also have any of you seen the South Park about the 9/11 conspiracy? This is a different conspiracy to be sure but I find it less likely that the government could have been powerful and together enough to decieved so much of the public (both here and abroad) than to belive that we managed to make it to the moon.

One final not I rewatched the Documentary Dark Side of The Moon that you posted. By far the most compelling evidence I saw in it was the personal testimonies, however if look carefully you will notice how heavily edited some of the clips are (you see the same think in Farenheit 9/11 and several news programs) it is basically indicative of taking a quote out of context (I know the one he got from Kissinger was since it was from a public recording the other interviews are a lot harder to verify). While it isn't technically lying it is an attempt to mislead you and should make you wary about how much you trust the source. (yes I am attacking the creator of the film for staging misleading interviews, almost as if he were faking them wink )



lol
I know, that's why I put documentory in "quotes".

I'm just here to play "devils advocate."

I would however like to know where you found this information about moon rocks being retrieved on Appollo 11?
I have looked on the Nasa website and nothing. What' I've found is moon rocks being retrieved in the 70's...
Maybe I'm not looking right?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:21 pm


catz is turning into me playing devils advocate and all xd

kitten22481
Crew


Worm of Morgoth

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:30 am


I just thought of another piece of evidence against the hoax theory. The television footage of the first moon landing was received at the Parkes receiving station here in Australia. There is much actual and anecdotal evidence for this. Importantly, shortly before the landing, there was a power failure at the Parkes dish, and the tracking computer reset itself. The only way the operators could find the signal in time was to manually point the dish at the moon and scan slowly around until they found the signal again, and could lock onto it. This would be somewhat difficult to fake, considering that the Parkes operators were neither members of NASA nor affiliated with the US or Australian governments, and any hoax would have needed to convince them that the signal was coming from the direction of the moon.
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Astronomy

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