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Do you have an idea of what a black hole is?
  Yes.
  No.
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`Zeke

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:50 am


Celestia Whitesword
Excellent! I was just thinking of talking/asking of black holes here.

Aren't they collapsed stars at the end of their lives?

I remember seeing many movies and such suggesting that they are wormholes to other universes and the like. Though this may most likely be the province of science fiction until proven otherwise.


I feel that time travel through a black hole does lead more towards a man's love of science fiction, but we can't truly deny it until someone is able to pass into a black hole and come out a live and make contact.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:53 am


Emily`s_Gone_Mad
Yes black holes, I do believe form from the collapse of massive stars.

Black hole's are really just mind boggeling.
I belive that a black whole can be used as a transport ..like bending time...to time travel throught the universe.
However, I don't believe that you can time travel back to the past.
What is in the past is in the past. I guess that's a weird way of thinking, but I think you can shortcut through blackholes to the "future" but I don't think you could short cut back to the same time you originally started at.

So say...*tires to gather thoughts* that you "shortcut to the future through a blackhole, and then come back in the next few min, those min, would actually be like years that have past in the original place that you left.

humph, *thinks about what she wrote*
so, it wouldn't literally be like time traveling...it would be more of ....simply a shortcut through time - but like moving soo fast that time has no effects on you, but time would still pass outside of the blackhole.

Did that make any sence whatsoever.
XP


This thought also sounds science fiction-y, but I feel 1) Either a black hole leads to a void. Or 2) Like you said, it allows you to "shortcut" through time. I too feel you can never return to the past. Only that you can move so fast that time seemingly stops to you.

`Zeke


`Zeke

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:54 am


sun_charm
I've heard it was made of something called phantom matter when a star explodes and the compression is so great, It creates a very thick density. I wonder how it can suck up light....That would be cool to see!! Also did you know that a white hole does the exact oppisite? Its never been witnessed but scientests know its out there!


I too must know of this White Hole? eek
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:06 am


kitten22481
I have always had a weird pull toward the Pleiades constellation. So much so that I almost named my first born child after one of the stars in the cluster.

Pleiades
The Pleiades isn't a constellation. It's a cluster within the constellation Taurus.

Emily`s_Gone_Mad
But I feel modivated to get my own and that's good to know about resolution (makes sence), but magnification has to matter also...doesn't it?
Magnification is meaningless ultimately. Think about it: Magnification for telescopes is determined by f(o)/f(e) where f(o) is the focal length of the objective (primary) lens (or mirror) and f(e) is the focal length of the eyepiece.

Essentially, what this should mean is that if you want a bigger magnification, you can't very well change out your main mirror, so you change eyepieces. If you want more magnification you make f(e) smaller. Take the limit as f(e) -> 0 and you could get infinate magnification with any objective lens. That just doesn't make sense.

Ultimately there's 2 problems: The first is, that the more you magnify something, the more you spread the light you're recieving out. So the object will look fainter. That's why, when looking at faint objects like nebulae, lower magnifications are often better.

Another factor is that there's a quantum mechanical effect which causes the focused light rays to cancel one another which limits the resolution depending on your primary mirror size. Magnifying it just makes it look fuzzier. It's like trying to blow up a picture on the computer; The maximum resolution is already set by how many dpi there are. If you blow it up, you'll just see fuzz.

Emily`s_Gone_Mad
A black hole could tear you apart, but also couldn't it just as well spit you back out in another demension back together again?
There's no way any machine could withstand the tidal forces of a black hole. Hell, even atoms can't.

Additionally, there's no actual evidence there's such thing as "other dimentions". It's a nifty mathematical construct but nothing suggests they're real.

sun_charm
I've heard it was made of something called phantom matter when a star explodes and the compression is so great, It creates a very thick density. I wonder how it can suck up light....That would be cool to see!! Also did you know that a white hole does the exact oppisite? Its never been witnessed but scientests know its out there!
No. There's no such thing as phantom matter. You may be thinking of Dark Matter, but that's something else entirely.

You can't see a black hole. They pull in all light, so they're black. However, we have observed them via their gravitational effects on other objects. Most galaxies contain a supermassive black hole (or more than one) at their centres. Our own galaxy has one that's 3 million times the mass of the sun.

Also, there's no evidence to suggest white holes actually exist.

`Zeke
You will definietly make this thread interesting. I welcome you.

*lacks such knowledge as to what cluster NGC 7142 i* eek
NGC is the name of a catalogue of objects: the New General Catalogue. 7142 is its entry number.

It's an open cluster in Cepheus that not a lot of people have paid attention to because it's partially obscured by an interstellar cloud which makes observations difficult. But we like to study clusters because they allow us to test theories of stellar evolution.

VoijaRisa


`Zeke

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:59 am


VoijaRisa
It's an open cluster in Cepheus that not a lot of people have paid attention to because it's partially obscured by an interstellar cloud which makes observations difficult. But we like to study clusters because they allow us to test theories of stellar evolution.



I've never had actual classes on astronomy so my knowledge on it is certainly not vast.

Besides that, what type of telescope do you use?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:54 am


Quote:
The Pleiades isn't a constellation. It's a cluster within the constellation Taurus.
I was going to call it a star cluster, but since I am not an astronomy "expert" I didn't even know if that was a valid term..

kitten22481
Crew


`Zeke

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:50 pm


kitten22481
I was going to call it a star cluster, but since I am not an astronomy "expert" I didn't even know if that was a valid term..


That's basically what I'm doing. I say something and hope it's the right term. Although I really like learning about astronomy I'm definietly not an expert in it. But that's the point of this thread, not to show whose an expert and whose not, but for evreyone to learn about astronomy. Inform each other in a hopefully constructive manner.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:04 pm


VoijaRisa
Emily`s_Gone_Mad
But I feel modivated to get my own and that's good to know about resolution (makes sence), but magnification has to matter also...doesn't it?
Magnification is meaningless ultimately. Think about it: Magnification for telescopes is determined by f(o)/f(e) where f(o) is the focal length of the objective (primary) lens (or mirror) and f(e) is the focal length of the eyepiece.

Essentially, what this should mean is that if you want a bigger magnification, you can't very well change out your main mirror, so you change eyepieces. If you want more magnification you make f(e) smaller. Take the limit as f(e) -> 0 and you could get infinate magnification with any objective lens. That just doesn't make sense.

Ultimately there's 2 problems: The first is, that the more you magnify something, the more you spread the light you're recieving out. So the object will look fainter. That's why, when looking at faint objects like nebulae, lower magnifications are often better.

Another factor is that there's a quantum mechanical effect which causes the focused light rays to cancel one another which limits the resolution depending on your primary mirror size. Magnifying it just makes it look fuzzier. It's like trying to blow up a picture on the computer; The maximum resolution is already set by how many dpi there are. If you blow it up, you'll just see fuzz.

Emily`s_Gone_Mad
A black hole could tear you apart, but also couldn't it just as well spit you back out in another demension back together again?
There's no way any machine could withstand the tidal forces of a black hole. Hell, even atoms can't.

Additionally, there's no actual evidence there's such thing as "other dimentions". It's a nifty mathematical construct but nothing suggests they're real.


Oh I see.
So your saying I could have a telescope with practically no magnification as long as I have good resolution...I have a good telescope?

I understand what your saying, but Magnification has to play a role, even if it's a small one - it's deffinetly not meaningless. Magnification would server puropose up to the size of the oppening...right?
So if you had a 60mm refractor it would really only be usefull up to 60X magnification.

I can see that how magnification is probably the least usefull power on a telescope, because I can understand the distortions of an image due to atmosphere and other factors...
but to say it's meaningless is probably more false than true.


And about the blackholes, I really don't know anything about them, I was just vocing what I think is probable according to my own beliefs because I don't think anything is impossible....just improbable.

Emily`s_Gone_Mad


Emily`s_Gone_Mad

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:06 pm


`Zeke
VoijaRisa
It's an open cluster in Cepheus that not a lot of people have paid attention to because it's partially obscured by an interstellar cloud which makes observations difficult. But we like to study clusters because they allow us to test theories of stellar evolution.



I've never had actual classes on astronomy so my knowledge on it is certainly not vast.

Besides that, what type of telescope do you use?


Awe, well we shall all be learing from Voija!
I have only taken Intro Astro.
I loved it, but I know there are many more things to be learned in that field...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:11 pm


`Zeke
Besides that, what type of telescope do you use?
The telescope that the data was taken with was a 40" at Mt. Laguna outside of San Diego.

My personal is an 8" Celestron SCT.

VoijaRisa


VoijaRisa

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:13 pm


Emily`s_Gone_Mad
I don't think anything is impossible....just improbable
Well, in that case, it's not impossible that monkies could come flying out of my a** at any moment, but just because it's possible doesn't mean it's really worth considering. wink
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:26 pm


VoijaRisa
Emily`s_Gone_Mad
I don't think anything is impossible....just improbable
Well, in that case, it's not impossible that monkies could come flying out of my a** at any moment, but just because it's possible doesn't mean it's really worth considering. wink


Lol

Flying mokies out of your a** could very well be a possibility- and perhaps even already happened.

I believe You know what I mean you didn't have to be smart about it.

I'm sure, in fact I know that there are many things today that people would of deemed impossible many years ago and perhaps even say the same things you have just said, about someof the things we look over today like cellphones, internet, Cars even.
There was a point in time where those ideas seemed like a joke.

The truth is we don't know much about the vacum of space, the ideas and concepts we have and apply mostly here on this very planet could be null and void when it comes to something as perplex and alien to us as a blackhole.

Emily`s_Gone_Mad

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Astronomy

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