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[Haruko]
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:46 am


animegirl_89
i find this is something that a lot of buddhist choose. i have choosen to respect other life by not eating meat. i feel that every animal has a soul and as they respect me i should also respect them as we are all trying to reach an understand and i am respecting them by not eating them. life is something so valuable i think that all deserve at chance at it regardless of what stage they are at. we can all reach a higher understanding and this is my way of respecting that.

i also find that to me eating meat is a selfish act. i don't understand how you can understand that it possesses a soul capable of nirvana and not respecting the process involved. i just couldn't justify that even thought our bodies are formed for eating meat.

to me the worse thing that you can do is placing yourself on a pedestial and justifing selfish actions by saying "its taste good, i just couldn't give it up" i just don't understand this. i respect you but do not understand the choice



See, now I am on the opposite end of the spectrum.
I can respect you and all of your decisions although
I do not agree with them. But, I know my place on this
Earth and I know that eating meat is a part of the human
life. Tigers and bears and dogs and all sorts of other
animals eat meat as well, and they still have respect for
the way our world works. I can respect your opinions
but cannot fully understand them. -[Haruko]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:51 pm


[Haruko]
animegirl_89
i find this is something that a lot of buddhist choose. i have choosen to respect other life by not eating meat. i feel that every animal has a soul and as they respect me i should also respect them as we are all trying to reach an understand and i am respecting them by not eating them. life is something so valuable i think that all deserve at chance at it regardless of what stage they are at. we can all reach a higher understanding and this is my way of respecting that.

i also find that to me eating meat is a selfish act. i don't understand how you can understand that it possesses a soul capable of nirvana and not respecting the process involved. i just couldn't justify that even thought our bodies are formed for eating meat.

to me the worse thing that you can do is placing yourself on a pedestial and justifing selfish actions by saying "its taste good, i just couldn't give it up" i just don't understand this. i respect you but do not understand the choice



See, now I am on the opposite end of the spectrum.
I can respect you and all of your decisions although
I do not agree with them. But, I know my place on this
Earth and I know that eating meat is a part of the human
life. Tigers and bears and dogs and all sorts of other
animals eat meat as well, and they still have respect for
the way our world works. I can respect your opinions
but cannot fully understand them. -[Haruko]

if you look at our teeth, they really aren't designed for meat consumption...very dull, really
but dogs and tigers etc. have very sharp teeth and couldn't live healthily on only plant products, so they are clearly carnivorous with good reason. also they don't get there meat from tortured sources, and probably dont have the brain capacity to understand exastly what they're eating.

iit also makes you feel better--healthier. since you tried it for a while you should know...however i respect (but do not fully understand) your opinion

thx for listening

Ayri^eagle
Crew


animegirl_89

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:24 am


i think in the end its a personal choice and regardless of what others say in the end your the one who decides
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:32 pm


animegirl_89
i think in the end its a personal choice and regardless of what others say in the end your the one who decides

that's true of just about everything.

Ayri^eagle
Crew


Scryden

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:52 pm


I'm not a vegetarian.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:54 am


I'm a vegetarian, and so I've been for two years now! 4laugh A little more perhaps.

My main reason for becoming a vegetarian was the way animals were and still are treated on farm. It simply hurt seeing so many animals being treated as if they were objects and not living beings.
After some months, at dinner time we were having steak, potatoes and peas, so I made up my mind and didn't put the meat on my plate. My mother asked me why, and I said that I just couldn't eat it. So she asked me if I wanted to become a vegetarian. I nodded and she accepted.

Ever since then I've not touched meat, and truth be told I've never had the cravings.

So that's my story. 3nodding

Trixa Pyswell


Ayri^eagle
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:07 pm


For a month or two before I became vegatarian, I felt sick whenever I ate meat. I have now been a vegatarian about year and a half, and I don't get cravings either. Except occasionally when someone is eating beef jerky...
my two best friends are pesco-vegatarians, and I think that the eating of fish is less bad because they were not tortured all their lives before being murdered and devoured. However, I still don't eat them, because they were killed for our selfish purposes.
I now see little difference between eating animals and people. After all, animals are people, too.

just htought I'd share that with you all.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:40 pm


Buddha told his monks that it was okay to eat meat, it's a personal decision, so long as they don't kill the animal, and the animal wasn't killed for them.
I used to be vegetarian.. for a while.. But I just kinda lost a reason to be one, and it was hard avoiding it. So, I'm a meat-eater now.

Peace Love And Skate


Ayri^eagle
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:17 pm


Peace Love And Skate
Buddha told his monks that it was okay to eat meat, it's a personal decision, so long as they don't kill the animal, and the animal wasn't killed for them.
I used to be vegetarian.. for a while.. But I just kinda lost a reason to be one, and it was hard avoiding it. So, I'm a meat-eater now.

I'm sorry to hear that
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:45 am


I'm not a vegetarian, largely out of habit and partially due to my high metabolism...I do support the vegetarian path as a means of reducing the accumulation of bad karma and would be willing to eventually become vegetarian.

However, I like good vegetarian food and cook a considerable deal of "experimental vegetarian" fare...I just made some surprisingly-delicious sulfur-shelf fungus (wild foraged) sauteed with candied ginger and fresh nectarine slices! biggrin

Veganism, however, seems a bit extreme to me and makes me think of "hippy" fluff-bunnyism...it seems like a "I'm more ascetic than thou" practice with little scriptural or rational support.

ElectricLoki


ElectricLoki

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:21 am


Ayri^eagle
[Haruko]
animegirl_89
i find this is something that a lot of buddhist choose. i have choosen to respect other life by not eating meat. i feel that every animal has a soul and as they respect me i should also respect them as we are all trying to reach an understand and i am respecting them by not eating them. life is something so valuable i think that all deserve at chance at it regardless of what stage they are at. we can all reach a higher understanding and this is my way of respecting that.

i also find that to me eating meat is a selfish act. i don't understand how you can understand that it possesses a soul capable of nirvana and not respecting the process involved. i just couldn't justify that even thought our bodies are formed for eating meat.

to me the worse thing that you can do is placing yourself on a pedestial and justifing selfish actions by saying "its taste good, i just couldn't give it up" i just don't understand this. i respect you but do not understand the choice



See, now I am on the opposite end of the spectrum.
I can respect you and all of your decisions although
I do not agree with them. But, I know my place on this
Earth and I know that eating meat is a part of the human
life. Tigers and bears and dogs and all sorts of other
animals eat meat as well, and they still have respect for
the way our world works. I can respect your opinions
but cannot fully understand them. -[Haruko]

if you look at our teeth, they really aren't designed for meat consumption...very dull, really
but dogs and tigers etc. have very sharp teeth and couldn't live healthily on only plant products, so they are clearly carnivorous with good reason. also they don't get there meat from tortured sources, and probably dont have the brain capacity to understand exastly what they're eating.

iit also makes you feel better--healthier. since you tried it for a while you should know...however i respect (but do not fully understand) your opinion

thx for listening


Concerning human biology/physiology, we are very-much adapted to being omnivorous (plant and flesh eating, as with bears, dogs, and many primates). Wolves and felines are wholly carnivorous, but domestic dogs are not. While much of our teeth are on the dull side, we do have canines specifically adapted for tearing flesh. Additionally, we have a single stomach and relatively-short series of intestines, better adapted to eating high-nutrient meats than low nutrient plant roughage (roots, leaves, stems), while also well-adapted to "medium nutritious" foods like fruits, grains, and nuts. Technology-wise, the ability to cook all sorts of foods has made human omnivory all the more beneficial and making the widespread consumption of meats, grains, veggies, and fungi worthwhile (otherwise we'd be able to eat little but fruits without trouble).

The Buddha said that one of the major tragic aspects of Samsara is the fact that people and animals kill and eat one another. I certainly agree. At least in Mahayana Buddhism, its generally OK to eat meat from animals not specifically slaughtered for you (i.e. as for a feast in your honor), which often translates to meat purchased off the market. The main source of negative karma is generally said to be the act of killing, though attachment to the taste of flesh isn't to be considered wholly neutral. Most of the bad karma is said to rub-off on whoever slaughters the animals, with any mistreatment of the animals also tainting the perpetrators...I haven't read any scriptures stating that the bad karma "trickles down" to whoever eats the meat (the consciousness-stream of the wronged animal would likely link the "evil deeds" to the direct perpetrators and not to indirectly-related individuals; the animal's body is thereafter just another carcass that would be eaten by flies and buzzards if not people).

"Moderation in all things" seems to be the key in dietary practice from both the Buddhist-spiritual, as well as scientific, view.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:01 pm


Ayri^eagle
It is true that when you eat meat, you are indirectly and partially responsible for killing a creature but the same is true when you eat vegetables. The farmer has to spray his crop with insecticides and poisons so that the vegetables arrive on your dinner plates without holes in them. And once again, animals have been used to provide the leather for your belt or handbag, oil for the soap you use and a thousand other products as well. It is impossible to live without, in some way, being indirectly responsible for the death of some other beings. This is just another example of the First Noble Truth, ordinary existence is suffering and unsatisfactory. When you take the First Precept, you try to avoid being directly responsible for killing beings.
I just wanted to say about that that I eat only organic vegatables, never use leather or toilatries with animal products, so I am not responsible for these deaths...



If there was a man who was a very strict vegetarian but who was selfish, dishonest and mean, and another man who was not a vegetarian but who was thoughtful of others, honest, generous and kind, which of these two people would be the better Buddhist?

I just wanted to say taht I would have said the first one was perhaps not a better Buddhist, but a better person, because to me, most animals (at least the ones we generally eat) are far superior to the human being.


The last thing I wanted to say was i enjoy a good solid debate.

without holes in them. And once again, animals have been used to provide the leather for your belt or handbag, oil for the soap you use and a thousand other products as well. It is impossible to live without, in some way, being indirectly responsible for the death of some other beings. This is just another example of the First Noble Truth, ordinary existence is suffering and unsatisfactory. When you take the First Precept, you try to avoid being directly responsible for killing beings.
I just wanted to say about that that I eat only organic vegatables, never use leather or toilatries with animal products, so I am not responsible for these deaths...


[Please excuse my accidental butchering of the quote above cry ]

These are well-meaning thoughts, though broad "responsibility for death" for meat-eaters is a contentious issue due to the highly-indirect nature of the relationship between eater and animal, in most cases (fishing and hunting is more clear-cut). Also, the widespread boycott of animals-for-meat could be expected to have very negative consequences on most of said animals (i.e. humans would have little reason to raise animals and future generations would simply never-come-to-be; the Iron Law of Karma would compel the affected consciousness-streams to reincarnate in equally-wretched lives elsewhere. For instance, the life of a deer can be one filled with fear of predators and the sufferings of disease and parasites).

The belief that "animals are far superior to humans" is what I call the Taoist-Zen Fallacy. It lies in beliefs outside the core Buddhist canons (Hinayana and Mahayana; save Ch'an/Zen) and requires that the idealist be ignorant of the actual state of animal existence. The Buddha held that human birth was "most precious" due to the myriad traits that allow the attainment of Enlightenment and the opportunities to live in a state with the proper mixture of suffering and pleasure for such attainment. Almost all Buddhist traditions place non-human animals in the "lower realms of rebirth" for their lack of human traits (in degree more than kind) and their tendency to experience suffering beyond that of the human average. Furthermore, every bad practice of humankind has been observed in non-human animals (ranging from theft, to sexual assault, to cannabilism).

This does not mean people have the right to disvalue the lives of non-human animals, just that they should be happy for their human life and strive to encourage future human-rebirths while minimizing harm to other lifeforms whenever possible. Being "natural" simply means being in tune with the ways of Samsara, which are to be rejected and transcended to the degree that they conflict with a Nirvanic mindset...To say "animals are superior because they're more natural" is in line with Samsaric materio-idealism. In reality, "artificial" and "natural" are just illusionary frames of view conjured by the afflicted, conceptual-mind; Dependent Origination and Karma work without regard to whether or not the actor is human.

ElectricLoki


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:10 pm


I'm not a vegetarian .However, I have nothing against those who are.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:47 pm


I'm a vegetarian. Represent! whee

SaveTheWhalesNow


Luciferin Bandit

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:59 pm


It's really a matter of personal choice, I'd say.

the buddha and his followers were not vegetarians. They ate whatever was given to them as alms, including meat. The rule was that they were not to eat the flesh of any creature that was killed specifically for their consumption. If it was given to them, they were obliged to eat it.

I find myself in that category. If i lived on my own, and payed for all my own food, I would feel obliged to be a vegetarian, but as this is not the case, a vegetarian diet would require me to make special demands as far as food goes, which I would not want to do. My food is given to me, and I have to right to be a begger and a chooser at the same time.
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Buddhist's Nirvana

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