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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:23 pm
with geometrical definitions it is impossible....
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:45 am
Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him.
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:30 pm
Quinn+hisQuill Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him. But God is not omnipotent in that sense. Consider that God created the laws of Science and Maths, and so for Him to go against His own laws would be akin to going against Himself. And if God could disagree with Himself, then He would not be God. If you say that "God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it," you have succeeded in saying absolutely nothing about God. Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire meaning just because we add the prefix "God can" to it.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:35 am
sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him. But God is not omnipotent in that sense. Consider that God created the laws of Science and Maths, and so for Him to go against His own laws would be akin to going against Himself. And if God could disagree with Himself, then He would not be God. If you say that "God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it," you have succeeded in saying absolutely nothing about God. Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire meaning just because we add the prefix "God can" to it. If God created the Laws of Science and Maths, among other things, is He not superior to them? If He is above them, do they have to apply to Him? Also, what are your thoughts on 2 Kings 6:1-7?
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:02 pm
Quinn+hisQuill sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him. But God is not omnipotent in that sense. Consider that God created the laws of Science and Maths, and so for Him to go against His own laws would be akin to going against Himself. And if God could disagree with Himself, then He would not be God. If you say that "God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it," you have succeeded in saying absolutely nothing about God. Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire meaning just because we add the prefix "God can" to it. If God created the Laws of Science and Maths, among other things, is He not superior to them? If He is above them, do they have to apply to Him? Also, what are your thoughts on 2 Kings 6:1-7? To start with the last- Making a piece of iron float is not breaking the laws of science, because iron is not intrinisically incapable of floating in water. There are two different kinds of impossibilities: there are normal impossibilities, which have an "unless" clause attached, and there are intrinsic impossibilities, which are impossible by definition. Iron cannot float in water unless the density of the water is greater than that of the iron, or there is a current pulling the iron to the top, or the electromagnetic properties of the water and the iron have been altered in some way, etc. Thus the idea of iron floating is not devoid of meaning, as the idea of a square circle is. Now, a square circle is by definition intrinsically impossible, because that which is a square is not a circle, and vice versa. So a square circle is not an object which could exist, it is nonsense. And nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:39 am
sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him. But God is not omnipotent in that sense. Consider that God created the laws of Science and Maths, and so for Him to go against His own laws would be akin to going against Himself. And if God could disagree with Himself, then He would not be God. If you say that "God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it," you have succeeded in saying absolutely nothing about God. Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire meaning just because we add the prefix "God can" to it. If God created the Laws of Science and Maths, among other things, is He not superior to them? If He is above them, do they have to apply to Him? Also, what are your thoughts on 2 Kings 6:1-7? To start with the last- Making a piece of iron float is not breaking the laws of science, because iron is not intrinisically incapable of floating in water. There are two different kinds of impossibilities: there are normal impossibilities, which have an "unless" clause attached, and there are intrinsic impossibilities, which are impossible by definition. Iron cannot float in water unless the density of the water is greater than that of the iron, or there is a current pulling the iron to the top, or the electromagnetic properties of the water and the iron have been altered in some way, etc. Thus the idea of iron floating is not devoid of meaning, as the idea of a square circle is. Now, a square circle is by definition intrinsically impossible, because that which is a square is not a circle, and vice versa. So a square circle is not an object which could exist, it is nonsense. And nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God. *Whistles* That...was pretty good.
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:35 pm
Quinn+hisQuill sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill sheepofdarkness Quinn+hisQuill Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him. But God is not omnipotent in that sense. Consider that God created the laws of Science and Maths, and so for Him to go against His own laws would be akin to going against Himself. And if God could disagree with Himself, then He would not be God. If you say that "God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it," you have succeeded in saying absolutely nothing about God. Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire meaning just because we add the prefix "God can" to it. If God created the Laws of Science and Maths, among other things, is He not superior to them? If He is above them, do they have to apply to Him? Also, what are your thoughts on 2 Kings 6:1-7? To start with the last- Making a piece of iron float is not breaking the laws of science, because iron is not intrinisically incapable of floating in water. There are two different kinds of impossibilities: there are normal impossibilities, which have an "unless" clause attached, and there are intrinsic impossibilities, which are impossible by definition. Iron cannot float in water unless the density of the water is greater than that of the iron, or there is a current pulling the iron to the top, or the electromagnetic properties of the water and the iron have been altered in some way, etc. Thus the idea of iron floating is not devoid of meaning, as the idea of a square circle is. Now, a square circle is by definition intrinsically impossible, because that which is a square is not a circle, and vice versa. So a square circle is not an object which could exist, it is nonsense. And nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God. *Whistles* That...was pretty good. Thanks. Most of it comes from The Problem of Pain by C. S. Lewis.
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:38 pm
I can't think of any God paradoxes at the moment (well, none that wouldn't just be rewording what's already been said) but solving them, essentially comes down to this:
Is God powerful enough to defy God?
In other words, can God break God's own laws. It is a widely held idea that God (any god, Allah, Yahweh, Zeus...) is unchanging. It is also widely believed that he is all-powerful. Is God powerful enough to break his own laws? If you consider it like that and you soon find the thinking is entirely circular, and you get nowhere. I find it's best to assume that if God wanted to, he could do anything, but he chooses not to change simply for human convenience. Just think of what the world would be like if God randomly changed everything on a whim. Humans need a certain amount of stability to function, therefore God makes sure we have that stability.
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:57 pm
What is the definition of a square circle? And what would the purpose of having one be?
If god un-created a square and re-created it as a circle, assuming something that was un-created (never existed) could not be known, you would only have known that square as a circle. Which would bring us back to you now trying to prove a point by asking for a circle square, the reverse of a square circle.
I like to think that god doesn't want to un-create his creations. Noah, and the great flood as an example. Why didn't god just un-create man and start over?
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:49 pm
Quinn+hisQuill Ah, yes, but If God was Omnipotent in the sense that He can even break the laws of Science and Maths, it would be possible for him.
Things like the "square circle" and "boulder so big god can't move it" are just simple parables for the logical falacy of omnipotence.
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:51 pm
charli10 What is the definition of a square circle? And what would the purpose of having one be? If god un-created a square and re-created it as a circle, assuming something that was un-created (never existed) could not be known, you would only have known that square as a circle. Which would bring us back to you now trying to prove a point by asking for a circle square, the reverse of a square circle. I like to think that god doesn't want to un-create his creations. Noah, and the great flood as an example. Why didn't god just un-create man and start over?
That doesn't make as good a story.
I don't liek that people try to over complicate such a simple thing. By the basic geometric definitions there can be no such thing as a square circle. If god un-created something then it is nolonger within the conditions of our current geometry. It's a VERY simple scenario.
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