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 Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:42 pm
I know it's my choice. But I would feel like a bad person if I made a choice for reasons that I thought were selfish or stupid.
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:24 am
PhaedraMcSpiffy I know it's my choice. But I would feel like a bad person if I made a choice for reasons that I thought were selfish or stupid.
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:57 pm
MipsyKitten If you wouldn't get an abortion, but you don't think your feelings should be forced on another you are PRO-CHOICE! Pro-Choice =/= abort every pregnancy. You don't need to add the 'pro-life personal' part when saying you're pro-choice. This has been annoying me for a long time. Thank you for finally saying it! 3nodding heart Ntropi heart
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:49 am
..Le Chat du Noir.. Yes, "The fetus is not alive" is a LAME argument. I agree there. It is alive, even cheek cells are alive. I think the confusion comes about because the definition of life has become blurred. "Life" is not the same as the social word "living" even though they are in linguistic terms related, what "living" has been social warped into meaning is the whole quality of life issue. I'm open in saying yes, a fetus is alive, no that doesn't change my opinion. I don't think people should tell themselves it isn't alive to make the decision to terminate any easier, it is supposed to be a difficult decision, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to abort just because it was a hard choice! Life is never easyand sometimes the right thing to do is a hard choice.
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:54 am
PhaedraMcSpiffy SterileNeedles ...It's what the person stands for that matters... ...I could jabber on and on about how feminsts should start calling themselves equalists instead of feminists in this day and age and why, but all it does is distract from whatever you are talking about and who really cares anyways?... And I could argue in favor of the exact opposite: Our society learning what the hell feminism is instead of all the "omg femenests hate men & dont shave" and "I'm not a feminist, but.." crap I see. And owning up to the fact that if you believe men and women share the same rights, you are, in fact, a feminist. But that wouldn't get us anywhere. It'd just be a name change. Thats because of the distinction between the subject rather than the agent. If someone is in favour of equal pay and politics then they are an equalist. Feminist is when properly used a term for those who think women should have higher social status. Some even do go so far as to say all men should be bred out of society and that men evilly forced women to pretend heterosexuality exists when the natural state of nature is only homosexualism. I couldn't believe these people are published and respected. (Learnt about them in gender studies)
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:42 am
Backpedal arguments.
"It's just my opinion, so I don't see the big deal here! Leave me alone!"
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:29 pm
Anardana PhaedraMcSpiffy SterileNeedles ...It's what the person stands for that matters... ...I could jabber on and on about how feminsts should start calling themselves equalists instead of feminists in this day and age and why, but all it does is distract from whatever you are talking about and who really cares anyways?... And I could argue in favor of the exact opposite: Our society learning what the hell feminism is instead of all the "omg femenests hate men & dont shave" and "I'm not a feminist, but.." crap I see. And owning up to the fact that if you believe men and women share the same rights, you are, in fact, a feminist. But that wouldn't get us anywhere. It'd just be a name change. Thats because of the distinction between the subject rather than the agent. If someone is in favour of equal pay and politics then they are an equalist. Feminist is when properly used a term for those who think women should have higher social status. Some even do go so far as to say all men should be bred out of society and that men evilly forced women to pretend heterosexuality exists when the natural state of nature is only homosexualism. I couldn't believe these people are published and respected. (Learnt about them in gender studies) No, those would be misandrists. *sigh* This is the same link I had to show the Unibomber-worshipping idiot on Deviantart to make them beleive me: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/FeministQuote: fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm] –noun 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women. 3. feminine character. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: 1890–95; < F féminisme; see feminine, -ism] —Related forms fem·i·nist, noun, adjective fem·i·nis·tic, adjective There certainly are "feminists" who believe women are superior (misandry, the same bullshit sexism-- only the other way around!) but these women do not represent the vast majority of feminists. Changing the language is not going to change what it is, and that's the fight against sexism. It's called "feminist " because, historically, it's been about raising women's status to equal that of men. It still continues to be, as women are typically harmed by patriarchy more than men. (But there is definately sexism against men that needs to be stopped. The stereotype of them all being stupid or sex-obsessed or that they have to shut off all emotions are all harmful to men.)
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:35 pm
Kata Samoes Backpedal arguments.
"It's just my opinion, so I don't see the big deal here! Leave me alone!" That's when you tell them to get the ******** out of ED and go back to the GD where they belong. You shouldn't be debating if you aren't willing to listen to the other side and possibly change your opinion.
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:36 pm
PhaedraMcSpiffy Anardana PhaedraMcSpiffy SterileNeedles ...It's what the person stands for that matters... ...I could jabber on and on about how feminsts should start calling themselves equalists instead of feminists in this day and age and why, but all it does is distract from whatever you are talking about and who really cares anyways?... And I could argue in favor of the exact opposite: Our society learning what the hell feminism is instead of all the "omg femenests hate men & dont shave" and "I'm not a feminist, but.." crap I see. And owning up to the fact that if you believe men and women share the same rights, you are, in fact, a feminist. But that wouldn't get us anywhere. It'd just be a name change. Thats because of the distinction between the subject rather than the agent. If someone is in favour of equal pay and politics then they are an equalist. Feminist is when properly used a term for those who think women should have higher social status. Some even do go so far as to say all men should be bred out of society and that men evilly forced women to pretend heterosexuality exists when the natural state of nature is only homosexualism. I couldn't believe these people are published and respected. (Learnt about them in gender studies) No, those would be misandrists. *sigh* This is the same link I had to show the Unibomber-worshipping idiot on Deviantart to make them beleive me: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/FeministQuote: fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm] –noun 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women. 3. feminine character. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: 1890–95; < F féminisme; see feminine, -ism] —Related forms fem·i·nist, noun, adjective fem·i·nis·tic, adjective There certainly are "feminists" who believe women are superior (misandry, the same bullshit sexism-- only the other way around!) but these women do not represent the vast majority of feminists. Changing the language is not going to change what it is, and that's the fight against sexism. It's called "feminist " because, historically, it's been about raising women's status to equal that of men. It still continues to be, as women are typically harmed by patriarchy more than men. (But there is definately sexism against men that needs to be stopped. The stereotype of them all being stupid or sex-obsessed or that they have to shut off all emotions are all harmful to men.) Sorry, I was just going on what my lecturer taught me. It would appear that in philosophical gender studies one must be very particular about ones words. Using feminism with its traditional meaning in the subject she writes on doesn't work so Equalism is used if ones only goal is for both genders to be equal. So, I apologise, it should have occured to me at the time that in philosophy rather than actual applicable feminism all the words would be screwed around with. Some writers tend to do that. I'm sorry for any distress I caused. On actual feminism as it is applicable to life I don't claim to have a vast amount of knowledge , we only cover theorists, and it would appear that they speak of somthing alien to applicable feminism anyway xd
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:57 pm
I once read about a woman who had an abortion just she she could keep breast feeding her current sprog. I said that even though I am pro-choice, I think thats a dumb reason (if it was the only reason) to abort. I didnt even understand how having a baby would stop you from breast feeding the other one... she has 2 boobs...
Then I got attacked by dumb pro-choicers saying "ZOMG, YOU RNT PROCHOICE COZ YOU THINK HER REASON IS DUMB"
I can be for abortion, but maybe not agree with some peoples reasons. Doesnt make me anti-choice, does it? It's not like I wanna pass a law stopping these people having abortions for dumb reasons!
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:08 pm
I agree, it's not a good reason at all. BUT she does have every right to decide if and when she has children, so we have no place to say. Which is still a pro-choice viewpoint.
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:16 pm
Elliebites I once read about a woman who had an abortion just she she could keep breast feeding her current sprog. I said that even though I am pro-choice, I think thats a dumb reason (if it was the only reason) to abort. I didnt even understand how having a baby would stop you from breast feeding the other one... she has 2 boobs... Then I got attacked by dumb pro-choicers saying "ZOMG, YOU RNT PROCHOICE COZ YOU THINK HER REASON IS DUMB" I can be for abortion, but maybe not agree with some peoples reasons. Doesnt make me anti-choice, does it? It's not like I wanna pass a law stopping these people having abortions for dumb reasons! I would have said you were wrong for calling her 'dumb', just because YOU couldn't understand her reason. The point is, as long as you don't try to take away her choice, it doesn't matter what her reasons are. She doesn't have to explain herself to anyone, let alone someone who isn't in her life. You might not be against her having an abortion, but saying which reasons are 'dumb' and which ones aren't is placing judgment on people who don't deserve it. I'm not saying you have to be for every reason, but don't make out like someone's reason is less valid, because you don't like it or understand it.
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:10 am
MipsyKitten Elliebites I once read about a woman who had an abortion just she she could keep breast feeding her current sprog. I said that even though I am pro-choice, I think thats a dumb reason (if it was the only reason) to abort. I didnt even understand how having a baby would stop you from breast feeding the other one... she has 2 boobs... Then I got attacked by dumb pro-choicers saying "ZOMG, YOU RNT PROCHOICE COZ YOU THINK HER REASON IS DUMB" I can be for abortion, but maybe not agree with some peoples reasons. Doesnt make me anti-choice, does it? It's not like I wanna pass a law stopping these people having abortions for dumb reasons! I would have said you were wrong for calling her 'dumb', just because YOU couldn't understand her reason. The point is, as long as you don't try to take away her choice, it doesn't matter what her reasons are. She doesn't have to explain herself to anyone, let alone someone who isn't in her life. You might not be against her having an abortion, but saying which reasons are 'dumb' and which ones aren't is placing judgment on people who don't deserve it. I'm not saying you have to be for every reason, but don't make out like someone's reason is less valid, because you don't like it or understand it. Eeps. I see now. I feel bad for saying it's dumb. But I hate that someone was saying I wasnt pro-choice coz of that one opinion I had abdout abortions.
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