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 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:00 pm
This is true, WTMH. The people who seem perfect...well, it's not real!
I mean, how in the world could all the rich peoples' kids look as gorgeous as they do? Life seems to be balanced that way. Sometimes it tips to either side a bit more, but in the end, life does seem fair, whatever people say.
Anyway, to answer Fox, I actually had a discussion about extremely intelligent people not so long ago. See, it seems that the more of a genius one is, the more unstable they are as well. Think of all the genius psychopaths. So it would be pretty scary to raise a child like that. He would be able to see through whatever religions and rituals were placed upon him in an attempt to keep him from doing harm. I think I would start with that he was human, and doing harm to the human species was considered bad because it caused an inside threat to us. That all the societal rules were in place just to keep humans alive and well. Beyond that, I'd pretty much have to let him develop on his own. I can't see how I'd be able to hold back a child and force him to do lessons in the traditional way when he'd be burning to go beyond.
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:55 pm
welcometomyhell I always thought that Erik's ugliness was somehow a price for his genius. Maybe I watch too much Fullmetal ALchemist, but a human man in our world being a genius at everything, not being too over the top insane and being drop-dead gorgeous? Impossible.
Bit off topic with that, but anyways, yeah, genius should be nurtured, not suppressed. Any talent should be nurtured. Well, that's being a tad stereotypical, but I can see where you're coming from. However, I don't think his ugliness is entirely from his genius. I think he weas intended to be the opposite of how most people are. Beautiful outside, ugly inside. And you're right, one should not curb intelligence. A child should be given only the sky as their limit when it comes to learning.
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:54 pm
Stereotypical, maybe, but not nessecarilly wrong. Stereotypical in that it's a common idea or theme, but there is logic in saying that nobody is either perfectly good or perfectly bad. People just are, and we're all instinctively selfish in the end. But there's always something to even out the "good" with the "bad", it seems, otherwise our culture would be quite unstable.
Though I agree that it's most likely not something Leroux was getting at, I still had simila thoughts on the issue.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:27 am
Thorn Venatrix Stereotypical, maybe, but not nessecarilly wrong. Stereotypical in that it's a common idea or theme, but there is logic in saying that nobody is either perfectly good or perfectly bad. People just are, and we're all instinctively selfish in the end. But there's always something to even out the "good" with the "bad", it seems, otherwise our culture would be quite unstable. Though I agree that it's most likely not something Leroux was getting at, I still had simila thoughts on the issue. Stereotypes don't often sit well with me, I guess. Comes from being around a group of people who take stereotypes made up about them and actually making them fact. Ridiculous and can get nerve-grating. However, I have to agree that the logic is still there. Quite frankly it can be the most physically beautiful people who are the ugliest inside. And frankly it can't necessarily be vice versa, all things considered. Take Erik as the prime example. If he had not been treated the way he had for his deformity, he might had been the kindest person in the world, not to mention famous. Which brings me to another point on raising a similar child. How can one go about raising the child with love, yet keeping them from turning bitter on the rest of the world? Or even doing something rash like killing those who hurt them? You can only do so much in loving them, but you cannot completely mold who they will be or how they will act.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:29 pm
This is true, but have you ever met a person who was completely ugly, stupid and mean? (Actually, that might be my best friend's brother, though he's not really that ugly.)
Seriously though, I can't see someone being absolutely ugly, stupid and mean. I can see someone who is unnaturally selfish, but that doesn't mean that they cannot have any redeeming qualities.
Wow, that's a tricky question. I dunno if I can answer it because I'm already a tad bitter, but hell, I'll go for it. I think in a case like that, the parent has to let life teach the child his lessons. The parent has to be the security because they're the only one the child has, unless there are some other nice children the Erik-child could befriend. As long as the child has security, someone to listen and be there for him, he won't turn completely anti-social.
Think about the kids involved in the scool shootings. In their case, nobody would listen to them. Not their teachers, not their parents, nobody. Meanwhile, other kids are bullied all the time, yet they turn out sane because they had people who would be there for them when they needed it. It all has to do with the support in the home, I think, rather than the treatment from peers, though it would cause some trauma during childhood.
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:30 pm
My boyfriend and I were actually discussing this a couple of days ago. As far as the physical deformity, I'd like to think we'd handle him fairly well. Kids or adults with deformities have never really bothered me, and I think if anything I'd have to curb myself from spoiling him rotten because of what i knew other people would always think of him. I don't think I would hide his reflection from him, it'd be easier for him to adjust if its always been there for him to see, and when the time came that he started questioning why he didn't look like mommy or daddy, then we'd sit down and explain it to him. I don't think I'd hide him away, either, but I wouldn't parade him around. Just give him enough social exposure to develope some semblance of social skills. Hopefully he'd have siblings that would just be used to the way he looked, and he'd at least learn how to deal with those kind of relationships.
What I told my boyfriend would be my biggest fear with having an Erik is that with his intellect and stubborn streak, he was any mother's biggest nightmare. To have a child that's hundreds of times smarter than you are and thinks ways around any boundary you set, would drive me crazy. I would literally be afraid of what he might do next.
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:29 pm
welcometomyhell I always thought that Erik's ugliness was somehow a price for his genius. Maybe I watch too much Fullmetal ALchemist, but a human man in our world being a genius at everything, not being too over the top insane and being drop-dead gorgeous? Impossible.
Bit off topic with that, but anyways, yeah, genius should be nurtured, not suppressed. Any talent should be nurtured. Fullmetal for the win. I always thought the same. Nobody's perfect, after all, and if Erik hadn't been hideous, he would have been (because the mental bit started after he was disowned).
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:32 pm
To be honest, I'd be disappointed, I mean every mother's dream would be to have a normal child, right? But that does't mean I'd hate him, he's my child after all. I'd treat him like any other child, but most probrably give him a mask at a certain age, not because I don't like to look at his face but for his own safety. I'd give him talks and all regarding his face and what not, so that he'd understand how others might react to his face. Education would be home school for sure, he's social skills may suffer, but there could be playdates when he's still a kid, and I'd most probrably let him go to the park with me, with a prepared excuse why he wears a mask: "It's a phase.", but once he grows up... I'd let him go out alone (or with me) if he feels secure enough about his face.
All in all, I'd give him love and support, no matter what he'd look like.
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:51 am
taisamustang29 welcometomyhell I always thought that Erik's ugliness was somehow a price for his genius. Maybe I watch too much Fullmetal ALchemist, but a human man in our world being a genius at everything, not being too over the top insane and being drop-dead gorgeous? Impossible.
Bit off topic with that, but anyways, yeah, genius should be nurtured, not suppressed. Any talent should be nurtured. Fullmetal for the win. I always thought the same. Nobody's perfect, after all, and if Erik hadn't been hideous, he would have been (because the mental bit started after he was disowned). Erik wasn't disowned. His mother feared him and he never saw his father. We assume he ran away and got mixed in with gypsies and the like from then on. His mental instability would have been festering for decades. I would have assumed it was a dangerous side effect of his obvious overactive imagination, but that's only an assumption as well.
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Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:55 am
The Rogued girl To be honest, I'd be disappointed, I mean every mother's dream would be to have a normal child, right? But that does't mean I'd hate him, he's my child after all. I'd treat him like any other child, but most probrably give him a mask at a certain age, not because I don't like to look at his face but for his own safety. I'd give him talks and all regarding his face and what not, so that he'd understand how others might react to his face. Education would be home school for sure, he's social skills may suffer, but there could be playdates when he's still a kid, and I'd most probrably let him go to the park with me, with a prepared excuse why he wears a mask: "It's a phase.", but once he grows up... I'd let him go out alone (or with me) if he feels secure enough about his face. All in all, I'd give him love and support, no matter what he'd look like. That's a normal reaction, I would guess. I mean, who honestly would not feel the sting of dissapointment or even minor hate for not having the perfect child? As far as the mask thing, as put into previous arguement, it might be better not to give them one at all. Children are the cruelest of all, but they can also be the most understanding of physical differences. If you gave them family friends their own age or got them around others his own age early, they would learn to accept his face. There would be teasing and a few days you would have to comfort their screams about it, but all in all getting them and others to accept it earlier, I think, is a lot more healthy psychologically for everyone than to cover it early, then rip it away later.
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:44 pm
And anyway, even if he did encounter hate amongst the other children, he'd become that much more socially wily, which would likely do him much benefit in the end. Or, in another case, the other children might be the most affected by it and learn not to judge anyone based on how they look.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:53 pm
Thorn Venatrix And anyway, even if he did encounter hate amongst the other children, he'd become that much more socially wily, which would likely do him much benefit in the end. Or, in another case, the other children might be the most affected by it and learn not to judge anyone based on how they look. Reminds me of that bit in Wicked where Nanny convinces Melena to allow Elphaba (her green-skinned, destined-to-be-"Wicked" daughter) to interact with other children. Elphaba, in turn, learns to have a sharp tongue and quick reasoning.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:33 pm
Exactly. He gains the mind to handle ridicule that basically subsides as he and his peers become older. They learn to get over it and so does he. And eventually, being the day and age of understanding and compassion (ironically) there would be someone in the world to love them as a husband or wife.
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:29 pm
I would probably be really scared, and stare.
But then i'd get used to it, and probably squeak out a small "hi..."
I know, sort of shallow-ish but deaths head, you've got to be atleast a little scared.
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:40 pm
Feye Figg I would probably be really scared, and stare.
But then i'd get used to it, and probably squeak out a small "hi..."
I know, sort of shallow-ish but deaths head, you've got to be atleast a little scared. Well considering your first sight of the child would be at their birth, I don't think the kid would care. Now if the fear continued, it might hurt the bonding process every child needs to make with their parents. But, I would think even if you still couldn't handle the disfigurement, by the time they got to the age that they would start picking up on your emotions, you could hide it well and try and love them the best you could.
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