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FemStranger
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:19 pm


Dr_Pepper_tgns
Japi
Dr_Pepper_tgns
Ok, so what your saying is that, if there is a gay guy [lets call him... Kyle] and he comes to know God and believes and all the good stuff, that he will turn straight? *just for clarifycation*
if he wants to love his God, yes, he will. because homosexuality is a choice, no matter how much people moan that it is in your genes...


Ok, it's a choice, can you tell me the moment you decided to be hetero? No you can't because you didn't, It was a natural attraction for you, not a choice, it's just something that happens.
actually, yes I can. at one point I thought I was homosexual. I really liked girls, a lot, and guys just didn't appeal to me that much... but then I became christian, I made an effort to change... and I was able to. maybe you're born with it, maybe you're not... i'll concede to that... but it doesnt really matter if you can change in one way or the other.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:47 pm


NoirCheri
Dr_Pepper_tgns
I don't really see the 'disobedience' part, you can't control if your gay or not, just like you happen to be straight, and what about the gay-friendly denominations?

Leviticus 18:22 states "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination [a loathsome act or thing]."

Now, this is a direct order that is to be followed. Any male who is with another male or woman who is with another woman is in direct disobedience with this order.
Being that this behavior is called an abomination, we can see that homosexuality is something that God loathes (hates).


But would this keep God from loving a homosexual preson? no, and you failed to answer my other points.

Dr_Pepper_tgns


Dr_Pepper_tgns

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:54 pm


Japi
Dr_Pepper_tgns
Japi
Dr_Pepper_tgns
Ok, so what your saying is that, if there is a gay guy [lets call him... Kyle] and he comes to know God and believes and all the good stuff, that he will turn straight? *just for clarifycation*
if he wants to love his God, yes, he will. because homosexuality is a choice, no matter how much people moan that it is in your genes...


Ok, it's a choice, can you tell me the moment you decided to be hetero? No you can't because you didn't, It was a natural attraction for you, not a choice, it's just something that happens.
actually, yes I can. at one point I thought I was homosexual. I really liked girls, a lot, and guys just didn't appeal to me that much... but then I became christian, I made an effort to change... and I was able to. maybe you're born with it, maybe you're not... i'll concede to that... but it doesnt really matter if you can change in one way or the other.


Ok then, what about your homosexualness? And also, now do you have an actual love for men/do you still think about girls sometimes?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:58 pm


Dr_Pepper_tgns
NoirCheri
Dr_Pepper_tgns
I don't really see the 'disobedience' part, you can't control if your gay or not, just like you happen to be straight, and what about the gay-friendly denominations?

Leviticus 18:22 states "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination [a loathsome act or thing]."

Now, this is a direct order that is to be followed. Any male who is with another male or woman who is with another woman is in direct disobedience with this order.
Being that this behavior is called an abomination, we can see that homosexuality is something that God loathes (hates).


But would this keep God from loving a homosexual preson? no, and you failed to answer my other points.
No, God would still Love them. But I'm sure your parents would still love you when you do something they tell you not to. It hurts them, and when you sin, it hurts God(Okay, that sounded Cheesy sweatdrop )

Se Ga Takai


NoirCheri

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:58 pm


Dr_Pepper_tgns
But would this keep God from loving a homosexual preson? no, and you failed to answer my other points.

I never said that God does not love homosexuals. As a matter of fact, in an earlier post, I said that He DOES love them. He just does not love their actions just like He does not like the sins of heterosexuals.
As for gay-friendly denominations, if you mean that there are denominations who say being gay is ok, then, yes, they are wrong too. I'm not saying that we cannot be friendly to gays, but I am also not saying that we have to tell them that what they are doing is right just to make them feel better. That's like telling a murderer that what he does is ok simply not to hurt his feelings. It's just wrong.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:03 pm


mmk then, I think I'm done with the debate.. 3nodding

Dr_Pepper_tgns


Shinja_Odoriko

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:10 pm


I have been debating over what to say for a few minutes now, but I think I have found it. Your relationship with God is between you and God. And while you may consult Pastors, Priests, and other Christians you hold in high regard, ultimately only you can determine in your heart what you believe is true. If you are easily persuaded by the words of others, how strong of a presence is God in your life? Each person interprets the Bible their own way, because God is connecting to them personally on a very intimate level.

Now I am a Christian Gay Rights Activist. I was raised Christian and brought up by Christian teachings. One thing my parents always kept out was the bit where homosexuality was advised against. Because of this, I did not know God warned against it until maybe a year ago. Recently I discovered why my parents left this detail out- my Aunt is homosexual and they didn't want my sisters and I to hate her. My personal beliefs are just that- mine so please do not bash me for them. And please do not take anything I say as the right and everyone else is in the wrong- blindly believing persuasive speakers is dangerous.
It seems to me that the most important concept of the Bible is love; the two greatest commandments are said to be 'love the Lord your God' and 'love thy neighbor as thyself,' "God so loved the World that he gave his only Son," Jesus loved his Father and Humanity to die for our sins. I can't find it in my heart to believe that God would make it a sin to love someone simply because that person was of the same gender. The Bible also tells us that we were made in his image and that he has a plan for all of us, this includes homosexuals and bisexuals. Now, please, before you argue that God gave us the gift of choice, homosexuality is not a choice; no one chooses to be hated by the world nor would many die for being gay if it was just a choice. The choice is whether or not you act upon that homosexual instinct. Please remember this difference.
My next basis on my belief is a bit, well, I'm certain many will be utterly disgusted by it. I'm posting in white, please highlight the text if you really wish to read.

God also put things in the Bible to protect us. He tells us not to eat pork, for it can be dangerous to eat if the process of cooking it isn't gone about properly. He also tells us not to eat shrimp, if caught at the wrong time of the year and consumed, it can be dangerous and kill. Perhaps homosexuality is advised against for our protection as well. He never says "Don't love a member of the same sex" but "Let no man lay with another man". This is the possibly disturbing part. As you may or may not know, sometimes durring the a of malexmale sex, both partners choose to engage in a**l sex (this isn't a required part of 'love making' and some couple choose not to engage in it, for they do not like it). Now, the a**s does not appear to have been made with penetration in mind and it is not easy to insert anything as large as a p***s into it. Before a**l sex, one partner uses lubricant on his finger, then interts those into his partner's a**s to stretch the a**l muscles out; he will also use lubricant on his p***s to help ease it in. Without using proper lubrication and stretching, the partner being penetrated is at risk of having his muscles torn. If cuts weren't properly tended to in Biblical eras, one could die of infection. God may have just been protecting us against deadly infections. This idea is a bit more 'out there' then my other ones, but I believe it is also a point to consider, for the original manuscript of the Bible did not mention women laying together and women would not be at this risk. As man translated and interpreted the Bible so everyone can understand God's word, he would have inevitably put his own beliefs into the translation.

Thank you to those mature enough to read and consider my interpretation of the Bible and hold their tongue or reply with counterarguments rather than flaming me. And may everyone here be wise enough to listen to their own heart and what God tells them personally rather than what man does. God bless.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:22 pm


Wow that was good, but can you clarify one part? The part where you said whether or not you act on the instinct, what did you mean?

Dr_Pepper_tgns


NoirCheri

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:38 pm


God does not simply advise against homosexuality. He calls it an abomination.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:42 pm


NoirCheri
God does not simply advise against homosexuality. He calls it an abomination.


He didn't directly call homosexuality an abomination, men lying with men he called an abomination, which I interpret as sex..

Dr_Pepper_tgns


NoirCheri

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:50 pm


Dr_Pepper_tgns
NoirCheri
God does not simply advise against homosexuality. He calls it an abomination.


He didn't directly call homosexuality an abomination, men lying with men he called an abomination, which I interpret as sex..

Correct. I don't understand where the discrepency lies or why you would think that He does not call it an abomination.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:53 pm


NoirCheri
Dr_Pepper_tgns
NoirCheri
God does not simply advise against homosexuality. He calls it an abomination.


He didn't directly call homosexuality an abomination, men lying with men he called an abomination, which I interpret as sex..

Correct. I don't understand where the discrepency lies or why you would think that He does not call it an abomination.


Well, there could be a gay/lez couple and not engage in sex, that it the difference.

Dr_Pepper_tgns


NoirCheri

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:20 pm


I understand what you're saying about not having sex, Dr. Pepper, but you cannot convince me that a gay or lesbian couple will not have sexual/romantic thoughts/feelings for each other. No matter what, I cannot condone that. Can they stop having those thoughts or push them away? Yes, they can. How do I know? I know because I have pushed thoughts like that out of my mind. While I have never been with a woman, I have thought about it. By ignoring the idea as soon as it comes up, I have been able to rid myself of it. People like to say that one does not choose to be homosexual. I say that they do. They don't like the hatred that they receive, but they do choose to endure it.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:24 pm


NoirCheri
I understand what you're saying about not having sex, Dr. Pepper, but you cannot convince me that a gay or lesbian couple will not have sexual/romantic thoughts/feelings for each other. No matter what, I cannot condone that. Can they stop having those thoughts or push them away? Yes, they can. How do I know? I know because I have pushed thoughts like that out of my mind. While I have never been with a woman, I have thought about it. By ignoring the idea as soon as it comes up, I have been able to rid myself of it. People like to say that one does not choose to be homosexual. I say that they do. They don't like the hatred that they receive, but they do choose to endure it.


Hm.. mmk, I repect your opinion. But, I don't expect them not to have thoughts about each other either, just like I wouldn't expect a straight couple too, but I guees we're on double-standards here..

Dr_Pepper_tgns


NoirCheri

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:29 pm


Dr_Pepper_tgns

Hm.. mmk, I repect your opinion. But, I don't expect them not to have thoughts about each other either, just like I wouldn't expect a straight couple too, but I guees we're on double-standards here..

No, we're not on double standards here. Lust for anyone is not right whether a person is gay or straight. Please, do not assume.
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