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 Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:46 pm
THIS NAME IS QUITE SMART Well I would read more of what your saying, but instead I am just gonna point out that you are using my sentences out of context- and you should probably read through more then one sentence, so my point isn't completely lost. But that's beside the point. ANIME BAD. HAS GOOD PARTS. USE GOOD PARTS, NOT BAD PARTS. DON'T USE BAD PARTS, WITHOUT USING MORE GOOD PARTS. THXU. Just because I only highlight a few sentences doesn't mean that I'm not reading what you're saying. What I'm asking from you is a clear and concise definition on what you think anime is, because it's kind of silly to use anime as an excuse for bad art. Anime isn't an adjective for bad art.
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:03 pm
Jadie Taboo is that you? Had i known that posting that little painting was going to escalate into this dead horse i wouldn't have posted. Quite frankly i don't think i draw/paint/whatever in anime style, i was just trying to make her face look more like my avatar. Yep! I hate this argument too. You know, who really gives a s**t? And honestly, your art isn't all that anime either. A little toony, but hardly Inuyasha. It sorta irritates me that also that having any sort of cartoony/realism look to art is taken as ANIMEZ SUGOI DESU DATTEBAYO, but whatever. That's a whole other argument I guess. Anyway, have you ever been to http://conceptart.org ? Now THAT'S the place to get some decent criticism. I'll take death, thanks. talk2hand
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:36 am
Conceptart.org is really a wonderful forum. The sketchbook subforum is great! They don't pay attention to everyone, though. :[ Since there are such amazing professionals there, I find that they tend to... not really ignore, but... not pay as much attention to users who are not either really good or really awful. I've had a CA.org account for a while now. I love it.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:48 am
Ah, yeah, and just to put it out there:
Anime is not "bad" by default, in my opinion. It covers a wide range of styles and genres. I feel like it would be ignorant of me to dismiss all of them.
The image in this thread does have a stereotypical anime influence, particularly in the color palette and white highlights. However, that is not what makes this picture unprofessional.
For one, it's not a horrible image.
For two, any flaws in the image are due to a lack of experience or error in execution, not in stylistic preference. The critique in this case should be on the proper use of the medium, not on "mixing anime and natural media" or anything like that.
For the record, I also think anime - as a grouping of genres - can be successfully conveyed in nearly every artistic medium. Why not? I can't fathom why you wouldn't be able to use anything you wanted. ********, you could make an anime drawing out of smeared s**t or menstrual blood if you wanted. I had a friend who painted her manga illustrations with her own blood. It wasn't suddenly "not manga", or of poor quality simply because it was combined with a very natural medium.
Additionally, I don't understand how anime could concievably be bad because it's anime, but have good facets (???) That's like... I don't know. The cake and eggs thing is not doing it for me. The way I look at it, the things that make anime good or bad are fundamentals like "design" and "concept" and "mastery of medium" and "audience appeal", all factors in every kind of visual art. In that very fundamental way, it is no different from other "families" of illustration styles.
I digress.
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:00 pm
If only I can link to really, really nice examples of "anime/asian stuff" + traditional media.
I found some nice watercolor paintings one time.
I don't mean digital watercolor. ><
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:54 pm
The Iconoclast Ah, yeah, and just to put it out there: Anime is not "bad" by default, in my opinion. It covers a wide range of styles and genres. I feel like it would be ignorant of me to dismiss all of them. The image in this thread does have a stereotypical anime influence, particularly in the color palette and white highlights. However, that is not what makes this picture unprofessional. For one, it's not a horrible image. For two, any flaws in the image are due to a lack of experience or error in execution, not in stylistic preference. The critique in this case should be on the proper use of the medium, not on "mixing anime and natural media" or anything like that. For the record, I also think anime - as a grouping of genres - can be successfully conveyed in nearly every artistic medium. Why not? I can't fathom why you wouldn't be able to use anything you wanted. ********, you could make an anime drawing out of smeared s**t or menstrual blood if you wanted. I had a friend who painted her manga illustrations with her own blood. It wasn't suddenly "not manga", or of poor quality simply because it was combined with a very natural medium. Additionally, I don't understand how anime could concievably be bad because it's anime, but have good facets (???) That's like... I don't know. The cake and eggs thing is not doing it for me. The way I look at it, the things that make anime good or bad are fundamentals like "design" and "concept" and "mastery of medium" and "audience appeal", all factors in every kind of visual art. In that very fundamental way, it is no different from other "families" of illustration styles. I digress. Well, you are probably right. I mean, I guess you could do an oil-painting of an anime character... it would just be tacky and ugly as s**t. In my opinion of coarse. But all I am saying, is that there are some things 90% of all oil-painters do, that is specifically -not anime at all- which makes the painting work. I mean, if you did manage to oil-paint good anime, I think it would be less like anime, and more like oil-paintings with ******** up eyes, hair, and cloths. But maybe I am just thinking this way because I have NEVER encountered anime done well in any medium asides CG. Or water colors. MY OPINION IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. But as it stands I have no reason to belive that anime could be charcoled well. (and for the record, I dont think it would count as anime if you painted 2000 pounds of hair, eyes that are too big, and silly looking cloths over the Mona Lisa, for example.)
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:12 pm
THIS NAME IS QUITE SMART Well, you are probably right. I mean, I guess you could do an oil-painting of an anime character... it would just be tacky and ugly as s**t. In my opinion of coarse. But all I am saying, is that there are some things 90% of all oil-painters do, that is specifically -not anime at all- which makes the painting work. I mean, if you did manage to oil-paint good anime, I think it would be less like anime, and more like oil-paintings with ******** up eyes, hair, and cloths. But maybe I am just thinking this way because I have NEVER encountered anime done well in any medium asides CG. Or water colors. MY OPINION IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. But as it stands I have no reason to belive that anime could be charcoled well. (and for the record, I dont think it would count as anime if you painted 2000 pounds of hair, eyes that are too big, and silly looking cloths over the Mona Lisa, for example.) ... Tacky and ugly as s**t ...? Oil painting done by artists Hiroshi Sugito and Yoshitomo Nara, untitled. Two very talented and well known japanese artists collaborated together using aspects from anime/manga styles to create their images. Do you consider this bad?
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:31 pm
Zebee Two very talented and well known japanese artists collaborated together using aspects from anime/manga styles to create their images. Do you consider this bad? I honestly don't like that image much at all. But that image is not what we were talking about - even it manages to transcend the "anime" trappings and use what is availible of the medium. also i rofl at you people taking all of this anti-anime sentiment personally - it's just an opinion, it's not meant as an attack against your moms so like calm it down a bit here
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Dr. Valentine Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:44 pm
Dr. Valentine Zebee Two very talented and well known japanese artists collaborated together using aspects from anime/manga styles to create their images. Do you consider this bad? I honestly don't like that image much at all. But that image is not what we were talking about - even it manages to transcend the "anime" trappings and use what is availible of the medium. also i rofl at you people taking all of this anti-anime sentiment personally - it's just an opinion, it's not meant as an attack against your moms so like calm it down a bit here aww, that's so cute. maybe you should mention that to your bro as well, since the debate or discussion in question hangs on what context the two of you think anime is. i can understand your assumption that all anime is bad but it seems that any reasonable argument or anything that questions that mentality is quickly shunned and/or ignored. that is...if you'd like to continue?
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:49 am
I don't take it personally. I just think it's an ignorant thing to say that "if someone did an oil painting of anime, then it would be ugly and tacky as s**t" Of course it's your opinion whether you like the image or not. Personally I love that painting, but that's my opinion. Doesn't make it any better than yours. But does that make that painting a bad piece of artwork? That was my question. Sometimes it is important to know that even though you may have a certain opinion about a work, that the work still has good content, formal elements, etc. You can know an piece is good even though you yourself may not be attracted to it. I don't exactly have a problem with the anti-anime attitudes throughout this thread, but more so the use of the term "anime" and the claim that "anime" images created with oil paint would ultimately be absolutely horrific. I hope I didn't come off too harshly in my last post, I hadn't meant to. Dr. Valentine I honestly don't like that image much at all. But that image is not what we were talking about - even it manages to transcend the "anime" trappings and use what is availible of the medium. also i rofl at you people taking all of this anti-anime sentiment personally - it's just an opinion, it's not meant as an attack against your moms so like calm it down a bit here
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:21 am
Wow, i've wanted to try gouache for a long time, although the prices has always been a turn off. I also dont have much experience (re-no experience) with water color and dont know if that would make a difference or not.
I agree that the shadows and high lights are a bit dull, because of the black/issue that iconoclast brought up. I'm still learning about color myself though, so i can't provide any indepth feedback.
I'm really impressed and delighted in the fact that Spork and Iconoclast already eloquently stated my opinions on the subject of anime, it saves me the trouble but i'm going to throw in my $.02 any way.
if you wanted a clear cut definition of anime, i suppose you'd just have to deal with "animation made in japan". Thus, if you're going to immediately dismiss it as something unworthy of thoughtful critique, i should hope you've seen everything every made in japan.
Anyway, i never had a problem with anime in the first place. i think a lot of people really hate the notorious fandom more than they hate the art.
I personally have had my own artwork dismissed on the basis that it's "anime art", numerous times. Frankly, anyone who says that to me sounds like an a*****e who isn't even giving me enough courtesy to actually look at what and how i draw. I've liked anime since i was a little kid sneaking into my brother's room to read his Masamune Shirow comic books (HE liked anime because of the way shirow drew vehicles). I was drawn to the genre because i've always been drawn to animation in general and saw something in anime that i wasn't getting from american cartoons. It's pretty fair to say that my intrest in anime had a HUGE influence on my style as it developed, but i dont really see any difference between myself and someone who was influence by marvel comic books, or graffiti art or Da Vinci paintings. Besides that, i hardly know anyone who developes one style from any single influence anyway.
I under stand the right to say you dont like this:
http://alumni.imsa.edu/~leda/anime/images/deidlit.jpg
or this:
http://www.animecubed.com/titlepics/Anime Music Videos.jpg
however when you avoid being specific and simply say "All anime is s**t"
you've not only dismissed the above images, but:
http://www.jeffpidgeon.com/uploaded_images/howl-702730.jpg
and
http://www.reelingreviews.com/millenniumactresspic.jpg
and many other styles and and artist which as far as i can tell have about as much in common with the first two images as:
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/c/images/corpse-bride-1.jpg
and
http://www.lambiek.net/magazines/tintin/tintin.gif
or even *gasp*
http://www.loveandhotsauce.net/scdata/lh-drv/image2-49.png
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:50 am
Page Boy or even *gasp* http://www.loveandhotsauce.net/scdata/lh-drv/image2-49.png I was about to comment on how anime-like that picture looks... XD
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:58 am
Dr. Valentine Zebee Two very talented and well known japanese artists collaborated together using aspects from anime/manga styles to create their images. Do you consider this bad? I honestly don't like that image much at all. But that image is not what we were talking about - even it manages to transcend the "anime" trappings and use what is availible of the medium. also i rofl at you people taking all of this anti-anime sentiment personally - it's just an opinion, it's not meant as an attack against your moms so like calm it down a bit here What defines anime for you? I don't understand what specific "trappings" you are referring to. This is a very vague statement you've made.
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:45 am
Tawney Page Boy or even *gasp* http://www.loveandhotsauce.net/scdata/lh-drv/image2-49.png I was about to comment on how anime-like that picture looks... XD well, i could have used another image of his to make my point. it's possible what resemblance this drawing has to anime-style is purposeful in order to satisfy his customer... but my point is that almost anything drawn in a cartoon style is as close to being anime as anything else. and that unless he clarifies what he means by anime, it's no more logical for him to dismiss any else's style as anime garbage than it is for us to do the same to his work. he may not argue our choice in doing so, but at the end of the day his piece wouldn't be getting the thoughtful feedback it needed.
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Dr. Valentine Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:18 pm
Page Boy or even *gasp* http://www.loveandhotsauce.net/scdata/lh-drv/image2-49.png le gasp i'm a hypocritical sellout it's no secret that i hate that image, it's a comission. i do what the comissionaire wants to see. hell, i wouldn't be drawing at all except that the art i want to do is impossible to sell. Anime, to me
An unnecessary essay by Dr. V I hate anime. It's ******** unattractive. But what is anime? I don't hate Princess Mononoke, do I? Of course not. Princess Mononoke is, in fact, animation. From asia. Some racists might call it anime because of that simple fact. I present the idea that "anime" is not a word that means "cartoons from asia". Example: I'm not ******** asian, however I have been accused of drawing in the anime style. But wait, if Princess Mononoke isn't anime, then what is? What is it that you hate so hard Dr. V? I hate "anime eyes". I hate anti-gravity boobs. I hate characters clad in costumes that no sane person would ever wear. I hate the fact that in professional cartooning it is a goal to draw as much like everyone else as possible. I hate the slavish devotion to primary colors and two-tone shading. I hate that it so often looks like people are just attaching a new hair color to a character I've seen a million times before. Does that mean I only hate anime? Hell no. I hate Marvel comics because, for the most part, they are guilty of a lot of these offences. Does that mean that I hate everything that looks anime-influenced? Not at all. Basically there are a lot of things I hate about art in general, and a lot of those things can be found in anime. I'd also like to point out that <******** you, crazy spork.
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