Welcome to Gaia! ::

3nodding Beautifully put, m'lady!

if its finding peace, then im hopeless while im alive.

i dont exactly consider killing one to save many destruction, but it doesnt bring me peace. killing is just something that comes naturally to me, and its better me doing it than some kid who doesnt understand what being prepared to kill really is.

still dont find peace in it. it really just keeps the mental wards clear of PTSS patients.

(The following information is posted from various online sources compiled together)

Magick & Occult Practices in the Holy Bible:

In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he divineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying. This is an ancient occultic method of divination in which a cup or other vessel is filled with water and gazed into. This technique of foretelling the future was used by Nostradamus and is still used today.

Numbers 5:12-31 describes a ritual of black magic that the Priest would perform on a woman if her husband suspected that she he had committed adultery. Verse 17 says: "Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.." She and her husband would go, with an offering of barley meal, to the tabernacle. The priest would make a magical drink consisting of holy water and sweepings from the tabernacle floor. He would have the woman drink the water while he recited a curse on her. The curse would state that her abdomen would swell and her thigh waste away if she had committed adultery. Otherwise, the curse would have no effect. If she were pregnant at this time, the curse would certainly induce an abortion. Yet nobody seems to have been concerned about the fate of any embryo or fetus that was present. There was no similar magical test that a woman could require her husband to take if she suspected him of adultery.

The Urim and Thummim were two objects mentioned in Numbers 27:21 and 1 Samuel 28:6 of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were apparently devices (perhaps in the form of flat stones) that the high priest consulted to determine the will of God. They might have worked something like a pair of dice.

Elisha was on his way to Bethel. Some small boys came out of the city and made fun of him because of his lack of hair; they called him "baldy". In a violent display of the power of black magic, Elisha cursed the children in the name of God. Two bears, apparently prompted by God, came out of the forest and tore 42 of the boys to shreds. The implication is that the children were all murdered. See 2 Kings 2:23-24.

Lots -- pieces of wood or stone with markings -- were used to determine the will of God. They were similar to dice. See: Numbers 26:55; Proverbs 16:33 Proverbs 18:18.

In 1 Samuel 28:3-19, the locus classicus for any examination of necromancy in the Hebrew Bible, Saul goes to a necromancer, a "spiritist," in order to conduct a seance in which he converses with the deceased Samuel. In an extraordinary turn of events, the first king of Israel consults the medium of Endor in order to "bring up" the old prophet, whose death had been reported in 1 Samuel 25:1 and was emphasized again at the beginning of this text, presumably to remove all doubt about Samuel's demise (28:3a). Samuel is then described as coming up out of the ground (28:13) and engaging in a conversation with Saul. The deceased Samuel announces that the next day Saul and his sons would be "with" him (28:19).

Daniel, the prophet, was employed for many years in Babylon as the chief occultist to the king. He was supervisor "of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans and soothsayers". See Daniel 5:11.

More examples:

OLD TESTAMENT:

1. In Genesis 30:37-39 Jacob used wooden rods to magickally produce spotted sheep, just by (their parents) looking at the rods -- a typical form of Middle Eastern magick in those days.

2. See the Patriarch Joseph -- According to Gensis 44:2,5, the Patriarch Joseph had a special silver cup with which "he divineth". Divination was a well-used form of magick throughout the Middle East and indeed all over the world.

3. Moses -- In Numbers 21:9, Moses uses a brass serpent to heal those bitten by serpents -- a practice "well known outside the bible as well as within it, namely, making an image of a pest or affliction and presenting the image to the deity who in turn, would banish the pest."

4. In 2 Kings 13:21, a corpse was revived to mortal life when it came in contact with the bones of the prophet Elisha.

5. Casting Lots: Even commentators critical of the occult have had to acknowledge the magickal dimension of biblical "casting of lots" -- Not a vote by ballot, the casting of lots was outwardly identical to sortilege practiced throughout the ancient world by Pagans who sought to know the will of their various gods.

6. Jewish and Christian lore contains many references to occult incantations, amulets, charms, spells, exorcisms, etc.

NEW TESTAMENT:

7. Paul's Magick Handkerchiefs: Perhaps one of the best examples of New Testament use of magickal healing was the apostle Paul's sending special handkerchiefs among the people to heal (Acts 19:12).

8. "Christians used objects, rites, words, and formulas charged with divine potency to force demons to yield, all in accordance with well-known contemporary rules of magic...they may have claimed that this was not magic, but it certainly looked like magic to others."

9. Jesus the Magickian: (there is a book by that title) Jesus himself was said by many (both pro and anti-Christian, both during and following his mortal life) to be a trained magickian, and was supposed to have "passed magickal power to his apostles and to the church as a whole is thus found in Judaism, Gnosticism, Christian Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, Paganism, Islam and Mandeanism." (John M Hull, "Hellenistic Magic and the Synoptic Tradition" 4)

a. Jesus - In many of the miracles of Jesus, the techniques parallelled closely the magic practices of the ancient world -- using spittle to heal, changing water into wine, using foriegn language incantations, raising people from the dead, etc.

10. The "Gifts of the Spirit" -- What traditional Christianity terms the "Gifts of the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:7-20) and includes such things as prophesy, healing by laying on hands, speaking and interpreting tongues, working of miracles; discerning of spirits; etc. -- are known in other circles (pun intended!) as clairvoyance, clairsentience, precognition, etc.

Early Christians used "objects, rites, words and formulas charged with divine potency to force demons to yield, all in accordance with well-known contemporary rules of magick....they may have claimed this it was not magick, but it certainly looked like magick to others." (Ernest Cassirer, "An Essay on Man: An Introduction ot a Philosophy of Human Culture" 93)

By the end of antiquity (into the Middle ages) the Church had become the home of many forms of magick that "co-existed in an uneasy and tenuous symbiosis." Some magic was banned, some was tolerated, and some was approved.....

Examples of magick practiced in medieval Catholicism included the holy water, the talismanic use of the crucifix to ward off evil, sortilege (divination) by randomly opening the bible and randomly pointing to a verse on the page {bibliomancy}, the adoration of bones from the saints, appeals for healing to these bones and other sacred relics, elaborate ceremonies to exorcise evil spirits, candle magick, palmistry, and elements of the Mass itself . The medieval clergy participated in traditional forms of magic, including astrology, necromancy, ritual magic, and alchemy. . (Vetter, "Magic and Religion, 162; James Hastings, ed. "Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics," 13 vols. 8:247)

Occultic techniques in the Christian Scriptures:

St. Paul engaged in sorcery as described in Acts 13:6-12. (Sorcery is here used in the same way as Exodus 22:18: a person saying magical words or performing magical rituals in order to harm or kill another person). During his journey to Cyprus, St. Paul met Bar-Jesus, who was an attendant of the Roman proconsul Sergius Paulus. He had a conflict with cursed Bar-Jesus, saying:

"You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind, and for a time you will be unable to see the light of the sun." (NIV)

Bar-Jesus heard the curse and immediately was blinded.

St. Peter also engaged in sorcery, as described in Acts 5:9. After he determined that Sapphira had lied to him, he cursed her, saying, "How is it that ye have agreed together to try the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them that have buried thy husband are at the door, and they shall carry thee out. (ASV)

She collapsed and died immediately.

Jewish Kabbalah:

The word Kabbalah literally means "that which is received." It's used in the Talmud to mean tradition in general, though more often these days it means books of mystical study that include thoughts on the nature of God. According to legend, a scholar of Kabbalah could banish demons or control genies, or alter destiny around him, creating Amulets called Kame'ot (the singular being a Kame'a) or, in the extreme, Robots.

The most famous legend of Jewish Kabbalah is that of the Golem, a man made out of clay animated by the word Truth on his forehead and the one of the Less-Known names of God written on a scroll in his mouth. Though the man had the basic property of Life, Nefesh, meaning Breath, it did not have the higher level of Neshamah, a Soul, which all Humans have. Therefore, it lacked initiative and seemed incredibly boneheaded in some respects and almost clairvoyant in others. Eventually, after saving the community from which it's creators had come, it went mad and had the Truth on it's forehead changed to Dead (one letter erased) and the scroll in it's mouth removed... and it died, and returned to the clay from which it had been made...

"Thou knowest me right well; my frame was not hidden from thee when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. Thy eyes beheld my 'unformed substance' (Hebrew: Golem); in thy book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me" - Psalms 139:15-16

Rava said: "If the righteous wished, they could create a world, for it is written: 'Your inequities are a barrier between you and your God.'" For Rava created a man and sent him to Rabbi Zeira. The Rabbi spoke to him [the man] but he did not answer. Then he [Zeira] said: "You are from the pietists. Return to your dust." - Babylonian Talmud, in Sanhedrin 65b (Translation: Moshe Idel.)

Folk Magick:

A few hundred years ago there was a kind of witchcraft called "folk magick" that was practiced by pretty much everyone, even those who considered themselves very thoroughly Christian.

It can be difficult for us in present, modern times to understand the bias that we bring to the study of just about everything, but especially history. We have a tendency to think that our ancestors saw the world as we do today -- or, contrariwise, to think of them as being primitive -- and both of these attitudes are very mistaken.

Our society's secular emphasis affects the way we view everything. Similarly, earlier people had a "world view" that affected the way the saw everything.

Biblical Condemnation of the Occult:

There are many Biblical passages that described some prohibited types of occultic activity by the ancient Israelites. These include Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 19:26-26; 19:31; 20:6; Deuteronomy 18:10-11; Isaiah 8:19 and Malachai 3:5. Of these, Deuteronomy 18 is perhaps the most important. They forbade the Israelites from engaging in human sacrifice and in eight specific practices which some have been regarded as occultic. The King James translation is:

"There shall not be found among you anyone that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer."

Various other translations of the Bible use the following terms or phrases here: augur, black magic, calls up the dead, charm, consults with spirits, fortune teller, interpret omens, look for omens, magician, medium, sorcerer, soothsayer, spiritist, weaves or casts spells, witchcraft, and wizard.

Clearly, translators have had a great deal of difficulty selecting unique English words or short phrases to match the 8 original Hebrew words:

yid'oni Making contact with spirits (not of God).
sho'el 'ov Making contact with the dead .
qosem q'samim Foretelling the future by using lots or a similar system.
m'onen Predicting the future by interpreting signs in nature.
m'nachesh Enchanting (perhaps related to nachash, a snake).
chover chavar Casting spells by magical knot tying.
m'khaseph evil sorcery; using spoken spells to harm other people.
doresh 'el hametim "One who asks the dead", probably via another method than sho'el 'ov

The reference to passing children through the fire has historically been interpreted as the ritual killing of the first born child in each family. Tribes surrounding the Israelites were believed to engage in this practice. In reality, it probably refers to a painful coming-of-age challenge that children had to endure. They would pass through the fire and (hopefully) emerge without much injury. In other traditions, they would run between two fires. This phrase has caused many people to believe that Pagans in ancient times engaged in child sacrifice. This appears to be the source of the belief among some Christians that modern day Pagans do the same thing. While we do not know what ancient Pagans did, we can be certain that modern-day Pagans do not murder children. This phrase (and many similar ones throughout the Bible) has probably contributed greatly to the public's widely held fear of Ritual Abuse and Satanic Ritual Abuse.

Interpreting Deuteronomy 18 in terms of modern-day practice, it is apparent that the following are prohibited:

yid'oni The New Age practice of channeling in which a person attempts to contact a spirit in order to gain knowledge.
sho'el 'ov Spiritualism, in which a medium contacts the dead.
qosem q'samim Casting stones or sticks and predicting the future by their position (e.g. I Ching, and perhaps runes, or Tarot cards).
m'onen Foretelling the future by looking for signs in nature (e.g. predicting the harshness of a winter by looking at moss on trees, or fur thickness on animals in the wild, or whether the groundhog sees his shadow on FEB-2.)
m'nachesh Snake charming.
chover chavar Casting (presumably evil) spells while tying knots.
m'khaseph Reciting evil spoken spells to injure others .
doresh 'el hametim Any other method of contacting the dead .

Other currently used methods of foretelling the future, such as tea cup reading, astrology, palm reading, tarot cards, runes etc. are not mentioned. It is thus not obvious whether they are forbidden (as in snake charming) or whether they are acceptable to God (as in scrying). A Membership in the Masonic Order (or similar fraternal/spiritual organization) is not banned. Wicca (Witchcraft), which does not allow its followers to engage in black magic or manipulative spells, is not prohibited either. Black magic rituals, are occasionally performed by Satanists as revenge to injury done to them by others; they would be condemned by this passage.

The Biblical passages appear to apply to persons who are directly engaged in the various practices (e.g. mediums, channelers, astrologers, etc.); they do not seem to refer to people who simply observe the activity.

The Greek word "pharmakos" which appears in Galatians 5:20 refers to poisoners. It was mis-translated as witchcraft in the King James Version. Since no modern-day Pagan, Neopagan or occultic activity engages in killing people by poison, the verse does not refer in any way to Wicca, other Neopagans or Occultists.

The above information was posted from: www.religioustolerance.org and Various Sources.

As for the verses condemning various forms of Magick, some of which were ironically still used and practiced by some Biblical Prophets and Biblical Figures in the same context in which they were condemned in the old Jewish Law, yet God didn't forbid or rebuke them from doing it.

It would appear to be that in Truth those practices were condemned when used and practiced outside of God's Realm. Meaning, God had to be the *source* of the "Magick", or else it would fall under the clause of the Law.

Joseph openly practiced Divination and was not condemned by God:

In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he divineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying. This is an ancient occultic method of divination in which a cup or other vessel is filled with water and gazed into. This technique of foretelling the future was used by Nostradamus and is still used today.

Notice: "That such a man as I can certainly divine". Meaning he was such a man bestowed upon by the Power of God, being embued by God with the Power to Divine (Divination). Meaning the Elect can practice "Magick" as drawn from the Power of God but not from outside of the Power of God. God is the "Magick". Practicing such "Magick" outside of God as the Source seems to be what is truely forbidden. It would appear that the Elect *can* practice "Magick", even those condemned by the Law, if God is the Source of "Magick" from which they draw, and not from outside forces. This is apparent from the various "uses" of Pagan Magick by Biblical Prophets and Biblical Figures (Including Jesus Christ) who practiced such but were not condemned from practicing such by God, because they drew from God in their Practice of it. Jesus Christ and the Apostles saw and spoke with the Deceased Moses and Elijah on the mountain, Jesus Christ and the Apostles raised the dead, as did the bones of the Prophet Elijah in the Old Testament. This would seem to fall under condemnation of the Law, but it was from the Power of God and not apart from the Power of God, so it was flagged as acceptable before God.

Additional Interesting Note: Tarot was invented by Itallian Christians in the 1400s or so who were influanced to a degree by Jewish Kabbalah. Abraham and the Magi had learned knowledge of Astrology, etc.

That is not scrying. I know what scrying is. That would be a failed attempt at showing that the Bible supports practicing magic. They say it in clear words not to practice magic. Besides, silver cups are just plain pretty. When the Bible says something, it means. If you are a practicer of magic, please don't mind if I tell you to keep it out of my beliefs because they don't fit.

I am brand new to this guild/website but right off the bat i saw the poll "do you believe in magic." now personally i think that is an awsomely stupid question because magic is a real thing but it is also an easy way to begin to exploit the works of evil things i like to call demons.

Magic is real, evil is real, and most of all demons are real. advice from me dont mess with magic itll screw you up.

Now now, I think you need to keep in mind. Not everyone believes the same as you. I don't believe in evil, I don't believe in demons.