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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:35 pm
rikeen90 Enigma Master Andrew Those movements are slowed down. The creators only gave the flash a blur because thas his trade mark. In almost every picture of the flash you'd find he'd have a blur about him . It's kind of like a signature pose fot him.
Long range we can agree goes to Superman because hes shown more use of it where as Goku tends to only fight close range. Supes however is al range. Yea he got there just in time to see Vegeta beaten to a pulp also it took him about 1-3 episodes to even arrive on the scene if I recall correctly. Brainiac can also destroy planets with the beams he fires and Superman can push those back simply by using his chest.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR! BLASPHEMY!!! NO NO NO! Does it EVER say that? EVER? Sorry for the caps, but no I am about to have a stroke! Isn't that against the rules? If so, people from DBZ, definitely move much faster than shown, and it is slown down for us, the omnicient viewer. And same can be said about Star Wars. If that statement can be true, then 90% of the arguements putting down star wars and dbz will be totally uncredible. it would shake the fabric of VS threads (no pun inteneded). I don't want to sound like I'm snapping at you, but really, do you mean that? Because If you do, either: a. you're wrong b. you're right, and the ppl from DBU and Star Wars are MUCH MUCH stronger than shown. c. i'm just mad that i hav to wait till december to get my intermediate license. (I dont think its c so much.) No... DBZ half the time they aren't even visible... confused So how is it slowed down? Actually the people in Star Wars are much stronger than shown in the movies. They just need to get animated to accent it better. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6MWIjruLqfM
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:39 pm
Sorry, I have every clone wars on my ipod. Yeah, Im a nerd... and YES, I do believe that people in Star Wars, DBZ, and even DCU are much stronger, and faster than shown to be. It is absurd to think that its not true. And I hate people who bend the facts to their purpose. My main star wars beef is the blaster bolts extremely slow... if it's NOT an omnicient viewer watching the movie, how can they HEAR when stuff blows up in SPACE!!! Sorry for going off (to everyone) but yeah, I dont like that part.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:48 pm
You might not be in the right state of mind for some debating lol you seem pissed. And people thought that animated Flash could't break the sound barrier.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=34nTrtE7lSI
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:10 am
Ok, this hole star wars thing is kinda off topic, but...I am of the opinion that lazzers in the star wars universe are faster than they appear to be, but defintly as fast as real lazzers as some people state them to be. As for the jedi's movements...if they have force speed, they certanly don't like to use it much.
As for DBZ, they specificly say on several okasions that the characters are moving faster than the human eye can see, and are often "seen" moving so fast that they dissapear from sight.
As for Superman, they never say anything about him moving Super fast. Also note the fact that he almost never trys to speed blitz obviously slower enimies, even when it could grant him an easy victory in a fight he has to win.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:40 am
Knightgee Dr Henry Pym Kamikazek-Z All ki that is powerful enough to do anything but push thigs away is visable. That means that the beam you see when Goku fires the kamehameha is the entire attack, there is no eversess energy oozing out. If there was, you would be able to see it. The Ki in beam attacks only harms whatever toutches the beam , untill the beam detonates, and all the energy is released in a big explosion. Beams hardly ever detonate, and to my knowlegde have never detonated when someone didn't want them to, and they can be stoped intirely without any detonation at all. Ki balls are a diffrent matter, but the Kamehameha isn't a ki ball. Also note that the Kamehameha that Goku uses to blow off Cells upper body was a planet buster, the fighters who were watching wondered what the hell Goku was doing because the blast that he was firing could destroy the plannet if it hit it directly, but Goku still fired it, and he didn't hit the earth, instead shooting it upward. He is willing to use planet busters ect.. Also, the Vageta atttack you mentioned wasn't either of the ones I'm pointing out. The one he used on Cell that I pointed out was a planet buster(as stated by Trunks), was when Vageta was at about full power, and happened when Gohan was in the hiperbolic time chaimber. Beams like the kamehameha can withstand extreem ammounts of pressure like a solar system destroying Kamehameha hitting them or Frezza going directly trough one covered in an enerhy field. Lazzer eyebeams aren't going to set it off prematurely, and if Superman somehow did manage to the explosion would hit him and do major dammage to the planet, if not destroying it. But I thnik the best possible he could do is push the Kamehameha back, which I dout he can do. I'm sure that Goku can come up with some way to hit Superman with a Kamehameha, he's hit meele fighters with it before. He could always try the old Cell games kamehameha trick, It point blank behind Superman with and already charged and initiated kamehameha and hitting him with it. Also you're assuming that Superman will try to dodge it. He has a bad habbit of trying to block energy beams with his arms or chest. @Pym-I don't see why people insist on saying that DBZ characters can't do what they are said to be cappable of. I've never seen people say characters can't do what they're so clearly stated to be cappable of except in thecase of DBZ plannet/solar system busters. Now, if I were an author and I were to say once that my character can lift a billion tons, or move five times the speed of light, or that his X attack can destroy a mountain, and people started saying "well, you can't be sure that's true because they've never done so in practice" I would be quite annoyed. If they're capable of something they're capable of it, and if they haven't done so then it's either beause they've never have had reason to or because they don't want to. Now, Toriyama went further than just having someone say Cell could destroy a solar system, which I would think should be enough to make it fact, he went out of his way and waisted time having evry character he could think of reiterate the fact that the attack could in fact destroy a solar system, as if to make sure that no one would dout it. And people still don't belive him. I would also point out that not only would destroying a planet be out of Goku's character, but also that it has never been too his benifit to destroy the any planet. Any point previous to his laerning of the IT destroying the planet he's on would result in his own death. Vs. Androids 19 and 20 it would have been useless because he was way stronger than them anyway. Against Cell it would be useless because Cell can survive in space. Same thing with Buu. I'm not even going to coun't GT since nothing in GT makes sense anyway. I know that Superman has superspeed, I've seen bolth of the mentioned episodes. But he has nothng on Goku's level. And yes, I know that Gotenks(and, in my opinion, no other DBZ character evcept probably Vegeto) can exced the speed of light, but when is it shown or said that cartoon Suprman can move and furthermore fight at light speed. Also, you must consider the fact that SSJ3 Goku is almost definitly faster than SSJ1Gotenks. I want you to count the actual times SHOWN anything more than a planet being destroyed by ANY Character in the Animated Series or Manga DB, DBZ or GT. Canon shows of force, guess what? They don't exist. As far as the Z warriors are conserned the only that has even blown up a planet was Vegeta and he had a "special attack" for that purpose. The only other ones that come close are Roshi and Piccolo they each blew up the moon. Buu who was way more powerful than CELL blew up solar systems one planet at a time. First of all, I think people are forgetting that this is TV Supes, and to my knowledge he has never withstood a planet busting attack anyway. But if you really want proof of Goku's power, in the fight with Cell, the Kamehameha he used was stated to have the power to blow up the solar system, Goku eventually surpasses Cell in power, so he too can do that if he chooses to. Also, for the people trying to apply logic to DBZ in terms of concentration, I laugh at you. If Goku says his attack can blow up the planet(or if onlookers say it can), then it can. Just because Goku is skilled enough to be able to fire attacks without killing everyone doesn't mean he can't do it. It's an ethical reason, not a lack of power. Buu took out planets one at a time because he was insane. had he wanted he could have taken the solar system out, but he clearly wasn't in his right mind, otherwise he wouldn't hjave been kamikazeing planets when he has shown the ability to blow planets up with a single miniscule blast. Since Goku has been stated to have this power and has consistently fought people who do, he clearly could do it if he chose to. Regardless Tv Supes stilll loses, unless you can show me where in the animated series he has taken a planet busting attack and has gotten up like it was nothing. SHOW ME WHERE HE HAS DONE THAT. Also, show me where a non-amped Superman has moved at the speed of light in the TV series or anywhere beyond it. Cell only said it could, he had never demonstrated that kind of POWER. Did he ACTUALLY blow up a SOLAR SYSTEM. Actual screen shot of a SOLAR SYSTEM being destroyed. Quit giving GOKU more power than he has with out backing it up. This has been an on going argument that no one has been able to prove.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:44 am
Saiyan Master Vegeta @ Pym: Frieza blew up planets on a daily basis. He did it for fun. And when Vegeta blew up that planet, he didn't use a "special attack". He never said anything about it. He simply extented one finger, shot a beam, and the planet was toast. And Cell most definitely had the power to blow up the solar system. Not planet by planet, but with one Kamehameha. The one he used against Gohan.  Now for starters, Cell never got the chance to blow up the solar system because Gohan's over-powered his. That's why it never happened. And some would think that in such a case, Gohan's Kamehameha should have destroyed the solar system, but that's not the reality. Gohan let his beam drift off into outer space, and die out. On purpose. He's smart enough to know to not hit anything. Cell on the other hand, would have continued the beam until it hit something, considering his intentions. Secondly, Cell never lied once throughout the entire series. Thus, there's no reason for him to lie there either. Hell, Goku even took the time to warn Gohan about Cell's ability, meaning that he agreed with Cell. And Goku has used the Kamehameha the most out of anyone in the series, meaning that he out of all people would know what a Kamehameha is capable of. Therefore, Cell's words are true. Problem with that pic is... again I repeat did he actually back up his claim? about blowing up a Solar System? Uhhhhhh no he blew up King Kai's Planet, with a Self Destruct power. I could fight someone and bluster about being able to blow up SOLAR SYSTEMS guess what It means jack and spit until I back it up.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:32 am
Kamikazek-Z Ok, this hole star wars thing is kinda off topic, but...I am of the opinion that lazzers in the star wars universe are faster than they appear to be, but defintly as fast as real lazzers as some people state them to be. As for the jedi's movements...if they have force speed, they certanly don't like to use it much. As for DBZ, they specificly say on several okasions that the characters are moving faster than the human eye can see, and are often "seen" moving so fast that they dissapear from sight. As for Superman, they never say anything about him moving Super fast. Also note the fact that he almost never trys to speed blitz obviously slower enimies, even when it could grant him an easy victory in a fight he has to win. Thats because Superman is constantly takeing special care not to hurt people including his enemy's . He never goes all out against somebody until he sees that they can handle it. Even people like Doomsday and Darkseid Superman has been holding back against. He limits his power for the occasion. And on several occasions it has been shown that he moves faster than the human eye can see. They just slow his movements down during fights for dramatic effect.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:36 am
Dr Henry Pym Saiyan Master Vegeta @ Pym: Frieza blew up planets on a daily basis. He did it for fun. And when Vegeta blew up that planet, he didn't use a "special attack". He never said anything about it. He simply extented one finger, shot a beam, and the planet was toast. And Cell most definitely had the power to blow up the solar system. Not planet by planet, but with one Kamehameha. The one he used against Gohan.  Now for starters, Cell never got the chance to blow up the solar system because Gohan's over-powered his. That's why it never happened. And some would think that in such a case, Gohan's Kamehameha should have destroyed the solar system, but that's not the reality. Gohan let his beam drift off into outer space, and die out. On purpose. He's smart enough to know to not hit anything. Cell on the other hand, would have continued the beam until it hit something, considering his intentions. Secondly, Cell never lied once throughout the entire series. Thus, there's no reason for him to lie there either. Hell, Goku even took the time to warn Gohan about Cell's ability, meaning that he agreed with Cell. And Goku has used the Kamehameha the most out of anyone in the series, meaning that he out of all people would know what a Kamehameha is capable of. Therefore, Cell's words are true. Problem with that pic is... again I repeat did he actually back up his claim? about blowing up a Solar System? Uhhhhhh no he blew up King Kai's Planet, with a Self Destruct power. I could fight someone and bluster about being able to blow up SOLAR SYSTEMS guess what It means jack and spit until I back it up. You've still failed to show me when TV supes took a planet buster and got up like it was nothing. Furthermore, now you are just being stubborn. Saying Cell doesn't have the power is just your way of being an ignorant fanboy. He stated it himself and nothing contradicts his statement, so until something does it is more logical and intelligent to assume that he can do it. Just because Gohan overpowered him doesn't mean he can't destroy a solar system, it just means Gohan is stronger, and Goku has gotten stronger than that. He can blow up a solar system if he chooses, get over it. Even so, Supes still loses, since the act of blowing up a planet is a gesture to the likes of Goku and Vegeta, which means he wouldn't even need his full power to toast TV Supes.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:39 am
Enigma Master Andrew Kamikazek-Z Ok, this hole star wars thing is kinda off topic, but...I am of the opinion that lazzers in the star wars universe are faster than they appear to be, but defintly as fast as real lazzers as some people state them to be. As for the jedi's movements...if they have force speed, they certanly don't like to use it much. As for DBZ, they specificly say on several okasions that the characters are moving faster than the human eye can see, and are often "seen" moving so fast that they dissapear from sight. As for Superman, they never say anything about him moving Super fast. Also note the fact that he almost never trys to speed blitz obviously slower enimies, even when it could grant him an easy victory in a fight he has to win. Thats because Superman is constantly takeing special care not to hurt people including his enemy's . He never goes all out against somebody until he sees that they can handle it. Even people like Doomsday and Darkseid Superman has been holding back against. He limits his power for the occasion. And on several occasions it has been shown that he moves faster than the human eye can see. They just slow his movements down during fights for dramatic effect. Proof? What episode does he say that, and according to the good Doctor, even if he says it, it still isn't true. Regardless, Goku and the like can move faster than human sight easily, and have been able to since the earliest episodes, with Goku being able to literally move at the speed of light now, so unless Supes has shown that ability in the show, it's a meaningless point.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:44 am
I'm sorry, but all of DBZ contradicts itself. In all canonical history of this series, only 3 characters has shown the ability to actually destroy a heavenly body. And they are Master Roshi, Frieza and Majin Buu. Cell never showed the capability to annihlate a solar system. Just becase he said it and he was never shown to really lie in the series and all the Z fighters agreed, but there is still the point he never showed the ability to do so.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:47 am
Hey, just throwing this out there, but when Cell said he could blow up the solar system with his attack, do you thhink he meant he would take out the sun and the resultig explosion would wipe out the solar system? Like Brolly did?
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:49 am
Mr.Mxyzptlk I'm sorry, but all of DBZ contradicts itself. In all canonical history of this series, only 3 characters has shown the ability to actually destroy a heavenly body. And they are Master Roshi, Frieza and Majin Buu. Cell never showed the capability to annihlate a solar system. Just becase he said it and he was never shown to really lie in the series and all the Z fighters agreed, but there is still the point he never showed the ability to do so. Canonically there are very few contradictions that have affected the story negatively, just minor things that no one really thinks about. Also, do you realize how you sound. You basically said"Just because Cell said he can blow up a solar system, and all the Z fighters, including Goku, an experienced fighter, said that he could, and he was never shown to be lying, doesn't mean he can do it because I didn't see it with my own eyes, and my eyes are the be all end all of all proof on all matters everywhere."
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:51 am
Knightgee Enigma Master Andrew Kamikazek-Z Ok, this hole star wars thing is kinda off topic, but...I am of the opinion that lazzers in the star wars universe are faster than they appear to be, but defintly as fast as real lazzers as some people state them to be. As for the jedi's movements...if they have force speed, they certanly don't like to use it much. As for DBZ, they specificly say on several okasions that the characters are moving faster than the human eye can see, and are often "seen" moving so fast that they dissapear from sight. As for Superman, they never say anything about him moving Super fast. Also note the fact that he almost never trys to speed blitz obviously slower enimies, even when it could grant him an easy victory in a fight he has to win. Thats because Superman is constantly takeing special care not to hurt people including his enemy's . He never goes all out against somebody until he sees that they can handle it. Even people like Doomsday and Darkseid Superman has been holding back against. He limits his power for the occasion. And on several occasions it has been shown that he moves faster than the human eye can see. They just slow his movements down during fights for dramatic effect. Proof? What episode does he say that, and according to the good Doctor, even if he says it, it still isn't true. Regardless, Goku and the like can move faster than human sight easily, and have been able to since the earliest episodes, with Goku being able to literally move at the speed of light now, so unless Supes has shown that ability in the show, it's a meaningless point. I never stated that he said he could move faster than the human eye can see. I said that Superman has moved faster than the human eye can see. There's a difference mrgreen
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:52 am
Knightgee Mr.Mxyzptlk I'm sorry, but all of DBZ contradicts itself. In all canonical history of this series, only 3 characters has shown the ability to actually destroy a heavenly body. And they are Master Roshi, Frieza and Majin Buu. Cell never showed the capability to annihlate a solar system. Just becase he said it and he was never shown to really lie in the series and all the Z fighters agreed, but there is still the point he never showed the ability to do so. Canonically there are very few contradictions that have affected the story negatively, just minor things that no one really thinks about. Also, do you realize how you sound. You basically said"Just because Cell said he can blow up a solar system, and all the Z fighters, including Goku, an experienced fighter, said that he could, and he was never shown to be lying, doesn't mean he can do it because I didn't see it with my own eyes, and my eyes are the be all end all of all proof on all matters everywhere." Check my post below that one. If that was not the scenario that he could blow up a solar system, my statement stands.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:52 am
Mr.Mxyzptlk Hey, just throwing this out there, but when Cell said he could blow up the solar system with his attack, do you thhink he meant he would take out the sun and the resultig explosion would wipe out the solar system? Like Brolly did? You can interpret it that way if you want, but even so, the average small star(our sun) is several hundred times larger than the Earth, if not even larger than that. Which means that he also planned on withstanding the resulting Supernova that would wipe out the solar system. Even so, since Cell never said that he was blowing up the sun, then he didn't intend to do that, he outrightly said he could blow up the solar system.
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