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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:39 am
Lawl. The ignorance in people who actually use that as an excuse makes me laugh. Laffiteh.
But I think the only times genders should be meshed is through sexual preference. Too many people think that homosexuality is confined to men and that lesbians only exist in porn.
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:38 am
PhaedraMcSpiffy I've heard them say things like "It takes away a woman's greatest power: being able to have children." Excuse me? I can spin worlds of characters with mere words, I can look at a single outfit and make it with little to no help (drafting all the patterns) and turn bolts of cloth into flowing gowns, sleek shirts, and sweet little outfits, I can take two sticks and some yarn and code it into a sweater or a sock, I can take a recipe and ingredients for the first time and make the tasiest ******** food you have ever eaten, I can roll up to almost 3600 on We Love Katamari, I can sing all the words to "La Vie Boheme", I can bring the beauty of snark to anything...and that's the really short list. And they think my "greatest power" is doing something any mindless ******** meth addict can do? Hardly. I strive to be more than a working uterus, thanks. Last I checked, my superpower was b***h.
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:40 am
3nodding If there were only a few women who could give birth, then it might be something special. However, it happens everyday. It's nothing new. Babies aren't miracles. They're born everyday, and have been since the beginning of humankind. Rosa Parks did something special. Emily Pankhurst did something special. Woman giving birth? Everyday occurence.
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:57 am
PhaedraMcSpiffy I really don't understand it, either. I've heard them say things like "It takes away a woman's greatest power: being able to have children." No, it doesn't. Women are still capable of having children. Just because I can piss doesn't mean I need to do it all the time, or even every time my bladder starts getting full. Women will still have children, even if abortion were totally legal and normalized. Why? Because there are a lot of benefits to have kids that many women want. And if they honestly believe that if women have a choice, no woman will choose to have kids - well, doesn't that just work against their argument? If childrearing is so awful that no one would choose to do it, why force that on anyone? PhaedraMcSpiffy Which, first of all, being able to create life inside your body IS an amazing ability and women should see that as a form of power, BUT, it is not the only power we have. Exactly. And no offence to anyone, but I am much more proud of my personal abilities, abilities that I have cultivated and nurtured myself (such as my ability to draw which, though it isn't great, is something that I've worked damn hard for) than some natural biological process. I am much more proud when I draw a picture I think turned out well than when I took a dump, sorry. PhaedraMcSpiffy Second, this gift of ours is also part curse: we can get pregnant when we don't want to be or shouldn't be pregnant. It's far more empowering for us to know that our ability to create life is not compulsory. Motherhood is an incredible act of sacrifice and love, but only when a woman chooses to love that child and is not forced to. I do not find it at all empowering to know that I have no control whatsoever over my bodily functions. This is not something I draw strength or a sense of worth from. Sorry. PhaedraMcSpiffy They also say that it makes us (feminists) selfish. Which ignores all the many women who make the choice to get an abortion even though they, personally, feel awful about it so that their children (both already existing and future) can have a better life. PhaedraMcSpiffy We would do anything, even kill, to be equal. If I remember correctly, the founding fathers FOUGHT A WAR to be equals and to have autonomy over their own nation. You can bet your bootbuckles that I'd do the same in a heartbeat. Fighting for your rights is the patriotic way! *"oooh say can you see" plays in the background while an American flag drapes behind my avatar* PhaedraMcSpiffy Well, of course feminism is selfish, but understandably so. We live for ourselves, not for men or children. And this began with a realization that we are the only people who should be in charge of our lives. So no one has the right to tell us what to do with our bodies. It wasn't until the 1870s in England that a woman's right to own her body held any water. It wasn't until the 1870s that a woman could actually have a say in how her husband spent the money that SHE earned. It wasn't until the 1970s that a woman could own her body and have a say in what could grow therein. If wanting to have personal autonomy and some modicrum of control over MY life is selfish, than not only do I willingly accept the label, I wear it with pride as well.
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:23 am
Talon-chan SSBrosM cat__claw psst - men do get breast cancer. My grandfather had it. true. So what about people with both genders? (Very rare yes, slightly distubing yes, but it happens.) do they have no rights what-so-ever? edit: ever read that report that says if women were paid to work at home, all that they would be doing would go into at least 6 digits?Live-in full-time house cleaners are very very expensive, not to mention that they also are the cook, the nanny, and the private tutor. Movie stars pay hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars for live-in cooks, cleaners, tutors, and nannies. Women do it all for free. Everyone who lives on their own does it all for free if it's not their profession. Taking care of your house, laundry and dishes is what everyone does when they live by themselves. Unfortunately, the burden is often put on the woman of the house to do, instead of the man, if there are multiple people living in one dwelling. It shouldn't be something people get paid for, but is should be something that is equally split up between the house's older occupants, so that there isn't one person doing all that stuff for three or four people.
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:08 am
Freedom Fire We can't just ignore bilogical differences between men and women, there are some differences that do need accomodations. Hey guess what, men can't take birth control pills, but does that mean we shouldn't be able to? We can't piss standing up, does that mean men should have to pee sitting down like we do? About the whole pissing thing, Girls I know of, have done that standing before...no joke.....
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:22 am
Nethilia PhaedraMcSpiffy I've heard them say things like "It takes away a woman's greatest power: being able to have children." Excuse me? I can spin worlds of characters with mere words, I can look at a single outfit and make it with little to no help (drafting all the patterns) and turn bolts of cloth into flowing gowns, sleek shirts, and sweet little outfits, I can take two sticks and some yarn and code it into a sweater or a sock, I can take a recipe and ingredients for the first time and make the tasiest ******** food you have ever eaten, I can roll up to almost 3600 on We Love Katamari, I can sing all the words to "La Vie Boheme", I can bring the beauty of snark to anything...and that's the really short list. And they think my "greatest power" is doing something any mindless ******** meth addict can do? Hardly. I strive to be more than a working uterus, thanks. Last I checked, my superpower was b***h. Oh right. My greatest power is reproduction. Forget that I can teach a person who has no self confidence in themselves and cannot draw but wants so desperately to make beautiful things, to learn their place in the art world and how creation doesn't have to be an acurately drawn portrait or a well placed painting. Forget that I can teach a singer how to support their notes from the stomach rather than the chest, giving them less chance to damage their vocal chords. Forget that I am able to manage my financial situations AND my boyfriend's. Forget that I can reach out to people having a hard time in their life and tell them, even if I don't have extra time, that I will MAKE the time to be there for them. Forget that I can make an old dusty book new and interesting from scraps of paper, pictures, glue, and paint. *barfs* No, my greatest power is making BABIES!
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Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:24 pm
SSBrosM I know! Too bad they can't get paid for it. They do in France. That's why taxes are high.
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:47 am
Nethilia PhaedraMcSpiffy I've heard them say things like "It takes away a woman's greatest power: being able to have children." Excuse me? I can spin worlds of characters with mere words, I can look at a single outfit and make it with little to no help (drafting all the patterns) and turn bolts of cloth into flowing gowns, sleek shirts, and sweet little outfits, I can take two sticks and some yarn and code it into a sweater or a sock, I can take a recipe and ingredients for the first time and make the tasiest ******** food you have ever eaten, I can roll up to almost 3600 on We Love Katamari, I can sing all the words to "La Vie Boheme", I can bring the beauty of snark to anything...and that's the really short list. And they think my "greatest power" is doing something any mindless ******** meth addict can do? Hardly. I strive to be more than a working uterus, thanks. Last I checked, my superpower was b***h. Holy s**t, 3600?!? How do you do it? I must know!
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Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:19 pm
I have no idea. I'm trying to think, but I've got nothin'. Maybe at that size she could even pick up The King! Nethilia PhaedraMcSpiffy I've heard them say things like "It takes away a woman's greatest power: being able to have children." Excuse me? I can spin worlds of characters with mere words, I can look at a single outfit and make it with little to no help (drafting all the patterns) and turn bolts of cloth into flowing gowns, sleek shirts, and sweet little outfits, I can take two sticks and some yarn and code it into a sweater or a sock, I can take a recipe and ingredients for the first time and make the tasiest ******** food you have ever eaten, I can roll up to almost 3600 on We Love Katamari, I can sing all the words to "La Vie Boheme", I can bring the beauty of snark to anything...and that's the really short list. And they think my "greatest power" is doing something any mindless ******** meth addict can do? Hardly. I strive to be more than a working uterus, thanks. Last I checked, my superpower was b***h. I officially love you, now. (Especially for the 3600 in We Love Katamari. Is that even possible?! I think my biggest is just a little over a thousand.) Kukushka I do not find it at all empowering to know that I have no control whatsoever over my bodily functions. This is not something I draw strength or a sense of worth from. Sorry. Exactly. Kukushka Which ignores all the many women who make the choice to get an abortion even though they, personally, feel awful about it so that their children (both already existing and future) can have a better life. Crap. I totally forgot that. Kukushka If wanting to have personal autonomy and some modicrum of control over MY life is selfish, than not only do I willingly accept the label, I wear it with pride as well. I like this guild more and more each day.
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:00 am
Forgotten Purity SSBrosM I know! Too bad they can't get paid for it. They do in France. That's why taxes are high. Really? *thinks about moving there* hmm... I think the ability to have children is more of a curse to just bring the population up and someone has to do it so it has to be women.
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:22 am
In primitive societies, the entire clan/village helps to raise children. The whole "this is women's job" thing is more recent than many of us may think.
Not to mention that nature never said that we had to raise our children alone. We are social animals who live in packs. We are supposed to have the support of moms, dads, grandmas, grandpas, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, etc... when raising children. I am actually blame the nuclear family model for many of society's ills. Having a child is a HUGE amount of responsibility. To think that two people, both of whom probably work, can do it alone and without help is just crazy.
France is ok, but they have a lot of problems. There's so much pressure from the US to compete more on the global market that they are abandoning many of their long-standing traditions and worker-friendly laws in favor of the ultra-high-pressure mass-production at the cost of the worker's wellbeing model of American businesses. There's a lot of conflict between these two ideologies in France right now and, unfortunately, it's forcing France to make decisions that are no good in the long term and that will burn out the country very fast. I hope that it will emerge relatively unscathed and there certainly has been a large backlash to block out the American influence in the media and the businesses, but money is money and I worry that it will win out over genuine care for worker conditions.
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:42 am
MipsyKitten So you can all probably guess what I thought when I saw this.
"men don't have to kill to have free sex."
What is 'free sex'? Sex you don't pay for? Men don't have to kill to have 'free sex' (wtf? retardedLOLZ), becuase there is no possibility of them getting pregnant. Sorry, but the last time I checked men could have sex with 20+ women and no one will say a damn thing. It's called 'double standard', and it will probably be around until the end of time. Saying "men don't have to do xyz, even though it has never been a problem for them in the past, so why do women?" is complete and utter bullshit.
Men don't have to choose between careers and children, because since the beginning of humankind, men have been seen as the breadwinner. Nowadays, it's becoming more accepted for the woman to make more, or for the man to stay home raising the kids, but it's still sometimes frowned upon.
"men don't have to have abortions."
Well no s**t Sherlock. I think someone needs to stay awake during biology. I'm pretty sure being female is somewhat vital to being able to become pregnant, let alone have an abortion. Saying "men don't get abortions, so why should women?" is a fallacy. Not to metnion completely stupid to even say. It's also like saying "straight people don't need parades, so why do homosexuals?" It shows you are completely ignorant to the situation at hand, and should go back to just listening in to mumm and daddy's conversations, and telling your schoolyard chums how much you *think* you know.
Due to these simple statements, I have come to the conclusion that the anti-choicers who spout this tribe, are completely ******** stupid. It's a wonder how any of them passed kindergarten, let alone middleschool or highschool. Scratch that. With America's school system, kids graduate highschool without even knowing how to read.And those who want to b***h about me calling them 'anti-choice', me callign them stupid, or me posting this can STFU. I don't care. Silence is acceptance, and I won't accept blatant disregard for common sence, in an attempt for the anti-choicers to justify taking away a woman's choice. I bolded the last part for emphasis, for I too, share your sentiments. I mean, The anti-choicers will lurk about here in our guild, then b***h about and pick apart our arguments in the safety of their own guild, where we are forbidden to enter and thus cannot defend ourselves, and they hardly, if ever, go into the abortion thread to argue with any of us face-to-face. So, ya know what? Turnaround is fair play, I say. They got a problem with it, they can go suck a d**k for all I care. although we know none of them would ever do a thing like that, for all those little spermies sliding down someone's throat is murder, I tells ya, murder!!! s**t...
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:57 am
Kukushka I agree with Miss. Me. Where did someone say this? That is absolute nonesense! Men don't get pregnant, DUH! No brainer, right? Apparently, alot of people are working trying to make it possible to allow men to become pregnant. Just what we need, more babies when there are hundreds of thousands of children waiting in adoption. Quote: In primitive societies, the entire clan/village helps to raise children. The whole "this is women's job" thing is more recent than many of us may think. Not to mention that nature never said that we had to raise our children alone. We are social animals who live in packs. We are supposed to have the support of moms, dads, grandmas, grandpas, aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, etc... when raising children. I am actually blame the nuclear family model for many of society's ills. Having a child is a HUGE amount of responsibility. To think that two people, both of whom probably work, can do it alone and without help is just crazy. True. But now, it's seen as "if you do get help raising children, you're a coward, lol". My mum quit her job after having her first daughter, and my dad had a year-long assignment in another state. She is the stay at home mum with depression, and my dad tries to help, but has so much work to do. Well, with 6 of us kids around, we do practically raise ourselves, but my mum helps us with almost everything. (As does my dad, of course) Quote: "All women want to stay at home and be angels of the hearth whose entire lives revolve around pleasing their husbands. It's just because economic situations make a double income necessary that they don't!" I don't see it as necessairly a bad thing to be a stay at home mum. My mum is one. surprised But it's also in the bible that women must submit to their husband's every whim, but in return, he must put her above EVERYTHING in his life, including himself. But most religious nuts who oppress women miss that second part.
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:16 am
Akarin Hime Apparently, alot of people are working trying to make it possible to allow men to become pregnant. Just what we need, more babies when there are hundreds of thousands of children waiting in adoption. I'm actually in favor of making it so that men can carry a pregnancy. I don't think it will increase the population by all that much since few couples will be like "Omg, hunny, now we can tag team baby production!" I see it helping the following people: -Male homosexual couples who want to experience parenting including pregnancy. -Families in which the woman is the major bread-winner and does not wish to have to miss work to be pregnant. -Families with househusbands who would like to take on this "female role" as well as the others. -It would shut up people who whine about how it's "my baby too" and think this justifies oppressing women. They could just transfer the fetus from her uterus and into his body so that she can go off and have fun and pay child support and he can worry about the pain, risks, and social stigma attached to pregnancy. And I am sure that there are plenty other examples where people would benefit from this. I know many men who wish they could experience pregnancy. This would give them a chance. Of course, all of this is a LONG way off. They can't even get the proceedure to work in mice yet. Akarin Hime True. But now, it's seen as "if you do get help raising children, you're a coward, lol". Or just "not a good mom." It's idiotic that you expect both people to work and then attach social stigma if parents seek other means of caring for the children while they do so. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, like so many situations women are forced to face. Akarin Hime Quote: "All women want to stay at home and be angels of the hearth whose entire lives revolve around pleasing their husbands. It's just because economic situations make a double income necessary that they don't!" I don't see it as necessairly a bad thing to be a stay at home mum. Neither do I. I actually think that it's a very good thing for one parent (either parent) to stay at home for at least the first 3-4 years if the family can afford to do so. Her quote wasn't saying that being a stay at home mom is awful. It's saying that many women CHOOSE to work, that they aren't just working because of social pressures. I'm a good example of this. I start getting very bad depression and anxiety when I have a vacation (even if it's only a week) because I hate being at home so much. I need to work, I need to go outside every day and do something that I feel is productive. Even if you gave me a billion dollars right now and I never had to work again for the rest of my life, I would still probably get at least a part time job because I enjoy working. My husband is the opposite. He hates working and he feels much more satisfied with his life when he's cooked a good meal or cleaned the apartment. He gets more of a sense of self-satisfaction seen a clean home than seeing a paycheck. He enjoys being at home. So obviously, it would make no sense whatsoever in our family for me to be a stay-at-home mom while he works. Akarin Hime But it's also in the bible that women must submit to their husband's every whim, but in return, he must put her above EVERYTHING in his life, including himself. But most religious nuts who oppress women miss that second part. I think it's plainly obvious that most people who feel strongly on the issue of homosexuality, abortion, women's rights, etc... for Christian religious reasons aren't actually feeling strongly because of religion. They feel strongly out of hatred for whatever group, or a sense of superiority over said group. Religion is simply used as a way to justify themselves and give them the sense that they aren't just being psychopathic and cruel, that they are divinly inspired.
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