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 Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:59 am
Is Aikido effective? I just found out there was an Aikido dojo in my town, so i'm thinking about taking classes
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:51 pm
Avoid it like the plague.
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:25 pm
Delmar_Denban Avoid it like the plague. What is your problem with Aikido? Provided it is taught correctly it is an amazing martial art. Deimos_Strife if you would like to know more please have a look at the following sites: www.aikiweb.co.za (This site has a list of all the official schools in the world.) www.aikido.com (A good information site)
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:34 am
Getting back to the street fighting briefly (awesome post by the way delmar, very imformative).
A good tip for the three second fight senario I learnt, and I've seen it work. Quite often if you are involved in that kind of situation, you'll get someone right in your face givin it all that "Wot you lookin at?" Blah blah. They'll quite often get really close to intimidate you, push you. In this senario they have the control, are they going to attack you? You dont know because they are in charge, quite often they wont (around where I live, lots of posuers) but you cant take that chance, and if they do attack you when are they going to attack you? So first thing, put up the fence (classic selfdefense I'm sure I dont need to tell you about). This is about where delmar advises to ask them a question, and this works really well if you have a little room. But if they are really close (about 6") then a good thing to do is give them a good shove away from you. I mean hard so they go just to the limits of your range. Once you've done this basically you have taken control, you've given them a choice. Either they are going to leave it or more likely they are gona come straight back in to attack you, more often than not with a great big lunging haymaker. So as soon as you've pushed them get ready to hit them with your most powerful/comfortable technique, as they move to come back in, smack em (you can see it happening, they're body posture will shift and they'll lean forward to come at you). You have to practise to get the range right, too far and you dont have enough control over the situation, and not far enough as delmar said means you have to be very confident of your close up and/or grappling abilities.
And again with the legality issue you have the right, you have warned them by getting them out of your personal space (you can aid this by saying to them as you push them "leave me alone, I dont want a fight, etc". Their action of coming back at you means they have initiated the fight. Then you can give the whole thing about fearing for your personal safety and it sounds more credible if you've given them the 'warning'
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:05 pm
DarklingGlory Getting back to the street fighting briefly (awesome post by the way delmar, very imformative). A good tip for the three second fight senario I learnt, and I've seen it work. Quite often if you are involved in that kind of situation, you'll get someone right in your face givin it all that "Wot you lookin at?" Blah blah. They'll quite often get really close to intimidate you, push you. In this senario they have the control, are they going to attack you? You dont know because they are in charge, quite often they wont (around where I live, lots of posuers) but you cant take that chance, and if they do attack you when are they going to attack you? So first thing, put up the fence (classic selfdefense I'm sure I dont need to tell you about). This is about where delmar advises to ask them a question, and this works really well if you have a little room. But if they are really close (about 6") then a good thing to do is give them a good shove away from you. I mean hard so they go just to the limits of your range. Once you've done this basically you have taken control, you've given them a choice. Either they are going to leave it or more likely they are gona come straight back in to attack you, more often than not with a great big lunging haymaker. So as soon as you've pushed them get ready to hit them with your most powerful/comfortable technique, as they move to come back in, smack em (you can see it happening, they're body posture will shift and they'll lean forward to come at you). You have to practise to get the range right, too far and you dont have enough control over the situation, and not far enough as delmar said means you have to be very confident of your close up and/or grappling abilities. And again with the legality issue you have the right, you have warned them by getting them out of your personal space (you can aid this by saying to them as you push them "leave me alone, I dont want a fight, etc". Their action of coming back at you means they have initiated the fight. Then you can give the whole thing about fearing for your personal safety and it sounds more credible if you've given them the 'warning' Thanks for all that information. I see that we were right to let you and Morringen into the ABG.
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:33 pm
Morrigen Delmar_Denban Avoid it like the plague. What is your problem with Aikido? Provided it is taught correctly it is an amazing martial art. Deimos_Strife if you would like to know more please have a look at the following sites: www.aikiweb.co.za (This site has a list of all the official schools in the world.) www.aikido.com (A good information site) *feels an arguement coming on* I'll back up all of my points 2morro when i've had some sleep.
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:27 pm
I couldn't be bothered to write loads as i've already covered this in the old guild so i've reposted my old arguements and edited them to make it relevant to this discussion. Before i start though i'd like to say that i have nothing personel against Aikido. I just think it is over rated and in effective. As i've said countless times on different threads Aikido is a beatiful traditional system but nothing more. It breeds arrogance and mis-placed overconfidence. If you have ever seen a decent Aikido demonstration it looks very impressive to the un-trained eye. If you take a closer look you'll see that it is either, cheograpthied (sp?), over exagarated and more importantly the opponants are completely compliant. Most people judge Aikido by either watching a demo or by the fact that Steven (i can't act) Segal does it. In Aikido you must wait for your opponant to attack and then defend. Any martial artist who is versed in the ways of reality conflict knows that this is suicide. If you are not familiar with why you need to attack first, read my guide to street fighting, hopefully it may answer some of your questions. Also if you have ever watch Aikido practitioners train you'll see that every technique that is used is totally built on compliency. In other words the training partner of the person executing the technique allows the move to happen. Aikido is supposed to be a peaceful, non-violent self defence system, which is why it will never work in a violent situation. Violence must be countered with sheer unrelenting violence, not flowery techniques. As Geoff Thompson says, he doesn't collect techniques like people collect playing cards. Instead he collects rocks to throw at people trying to harm him. It's like reality martial arts, it's not pretty but it works. What anoys me the most is that all of the Aikido practitioners i've come across are convinced that it works in a real situation like they've been ******** brain washed and refuse to listen to reason. Okay, lets talk about ranges. By this I mean the abilty to punch/kick/grapple and various distances. Aikido fails at every range, especially grappling. Aikido is s**t, so are it's principles and so are 99% of it's practitioners. Aikido fails at grappling because they are s**t at it. Aikido vs Judo =Judo People try to compare Aikido with Judo, however judo is a far greater grappling system than Aikido. It's ground grappling is stronger and judos take downs and vertical grappling is more superior than most grappling arts out there. Aikido vs Any style of wrestling = Wrestling Aikido vs BJJ = HAHAHAHA If you take an Aikido practitioner to the floor it's game over. Fair enough, if you cross train you obviously have a better chance. If you practice Aikido and nothing else then you wont be stand a chance in the street. This is a quote from the old guild about how to detect a bullshido school. Bruce-Ganked-Lee Now, here are some tips for spotting a bullshido artist: -If they make claims that they can take on multiple persons with ease...bullshido -If they claim they can successfully disarm a gunman/knifeman(because they "practice" it with friends rolleyes )...bullshido Tips on spotting a McDojo/Dojang/Kwoon: -If the instructors look like they could use a bit more exercise...McDojo -If the place does not agree with competition or testing ones fighting ability against another opponent outside the school...McDojo -If sparring is completely out of the training curriculum...McDojo -If it becomes apparent that you can beat the living hell out of your Sensei/Sifu/Sabomnim...McDojo McDojos are extremely dangerous, as they fill ignorant people's minds with silly kung fu fantasies. Most of them teach faulty technique and pass it off as good street defense. Nobody can teach you how to street fight....its just not something you can learn without actually getting into street fights. Most martial arts can HELP you gain an edge....but they cannot make you a better fighter on the asphalt arena. Oh and one more thing before I end this rant. A bit of math for those who do think they can disarm a gunman or someone with a knife. GUNS>BLACKBELTS GUN/KNIFE DISARMS=SHlT I think Aikido qualifies for the above...... If you use Aikido in a muliple attacker situation then you are deader than disco. Aikido seems to pride it's self upon it's ability to deal with multiple attackers. It's bullshit and any one who has either had some real life experience or has knowledge in to reality arts knows this. The only way to deal with multiple attackers is either: 1. Aviodance 2. Run like hell. 3. Pick up a weapon and move to number 4 4. Hit every thing that moves (either armed or unarmed) and don't stop untill you are either dead/ unconcious or the threat has been neautrilised.
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:31 pm
DarklingGlory Getting back to the street fighting briefly (awesome post by the way delmar, very imformative). A good tip for the three second fight senario I learnt, and I've seen it work. Quite often if you are involved in that kind of situation, you'll get someone right in your face givin it all that "Wot you lookin at?" Blah blah. They'll quite often get really close to intimidate you, push you. In this senario they have the control, are they going to attack you? You dont know because they are in charge, quite often they wont (around where I live, lots of posuers) but you cant take that chance, and if they do attack you when are they going to attack you? So first thing, put up the fence (classic selfdefense I'm sure I dont need to tell you about). This is about where delmar advises to ask them a question, and this works really well if you have a little room. But if they are really close (about 6") then a good thing to do is give them a good shove away from you. I mean hard so they go just to the limits of your range. Once you've done this basically you have taken control, you've given them a choice. Either they are going to leave it or more likely they are gona come straight back in to attack you, more often than not with a great big lunging haymaker. So as soon as you've pushed them get ready to hit them with your most powerful/comfortable technique, as they move to come back in, smack em (you can see it happening, they're body posture will shift and they'll lean forward to come at you). You have to practise to get the range right, too far and you dont have enough control over the situation, and not far enough as delmar said means you have to be very confident of your close up and/or grappling abilities. And again with the legality issue you have the right, you have warned them by getting them out of your personal space (you can aid this by saying to them as you push them "leave me alone, I dont want a fight, etc". Their action of coming back at you means they have initiated the fight. Then you can give the whole thing about fearing for your personal safety and it sounds more credible if you've given them the 'warning' I like you......
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:07 am
Delmar_Denban I couldn't be bothered to write loads as i've already covered this in the old guild so i've reposted my old arguements and edited them to make it relevant to this discussion. Before i start though i'd like to say that i have nothing personel against Aikido. I just think it is over rated and in effective. As i've said countless times on different threads Aikido is a beatiful traditional system but nothing more. It breeds arrogance and mis-placed overconfidence. If you have ever seen a decent Aikido demonstration it looks very impressive to the un-trained eye. If you take a closer look you'll see that it is either, cheograpthied (sp?), over exagarated and more importantly the opponants are completely compliant. Most people judge Aikido by either watching a demo or by the fact that Steven (i can't act) Segal does it. In Aikido you must wait for your opponant to attack and then defend. Any martial artist who is versed in the ways of reality conflict knows that this is suicide. If you are not familiar with why you need to attack first, read my guide to street fighting, hopefully it may answer some of your questions. Also if you have ever watch Aikido practitioners train you'll see that every technique that is used is totally built on compliency. In other words the training partner of the person executing the technique allows the move to happen. Aikido is supposed to be a peaceful, non-violent self defence system, which is why it will never work in a violent situation. Violence must be countered with sheer unrelenting violence, not flowery techniques. As Geoff Thompson says, he doesn't collect techniques like people collect playing cards. Instead he collects rocks to throw at people trying to harm him. It's like reality martial arts, it's not pretty but it works. What anoys me the most is that all of the Aikido practitioners i've come across are convinced that it works in a real situation like they've been ******** brain washed and refuse to listen to reason. Okay, lets talk about ranges. By this I mean the abilty to punch/kick/grapple and various distances. Aikido fails at every range, especially grappling. Aikido is s**t, so are it's principles and so are 99% of it's practitioners. Aikido fails at grappling because they are s**t at it. Aikido vs Judo =Judo People try to compare Aikido with Judo, however judo is a far greater grappling system than Aikido. It's ground grappling is stronger and judos take downs and vertical grappling is more superior than most grappling arts out there. Aikido vs Any style of wrestling = Wrestling Aikido vs BJJ = HAHAHAHA If you take an Aikido practitioner to the floor it's game over. Fair enough, if you cross train you obviously have a better chance. If you practice Aikido and nothing else then you wont be stand a chance in the street. This is a quote from the old guild about how to detect a bullshido school. Bruce-Ganked-Lee Now, here are some tips for spotting a bullshido artist: -If they make claims that they can take on multiple persons with ease...bullshido -If they claim they can successfully disarm a gunman/knifeman(because they "practice" it with friends rolleyes )...bullshido Tips on spotting a McDojo/Dojang/Kwoon: -If the instructors look like they could use a bit more exercise...McDojo -If the place does not agree with competition or testing ones fighting ability against another opponent outside the school...McDojo -If sparring is completely out of the training curriculum...McDojo -If it becomes apparent that you can beat the living hell out of your Sensei/Sifu/Sabomnim...McDojo McDojos are extremely dangerous, as they fill ignorant people's minds with silly kung fu fantasies. Most of them teach faulty technique and pass it off as good street defense. Nobody can teach you how to street fight....its just not something you can learn without actually getting into street fights. Most martial arts can HELP you gain an edge....but they cannot make you a better fighter on the asphalt arena. Oh and one more thing before I end this rant. A bit of math for those who do think they can disarm a gunman or someone with a knife. GUNS>BLACKBELTS GUN/KNIFE DISARMS=SHlT I think Aikido qualifies for the above...... If you use Aikido in a muliple attacker situation then you are deader than disco. Aikido seems to pride it's self upon it's ability to deal with multiple attackers. It's bullshit and any one who has either had some real life experience or has knowledge in to reality arts knows this. The only way to deal with multiple attackers is either: 1. Aviodance 2. Run like hell. 3. Pick up a weapon and move to number 4 4. Hit every thing that moves (either armed or unarmed) and don't stop untill you are either dead/ unconcious or the threat has been neautrilised. Alright, but just to make sure i'll go there and ask for a sparring match to see if it really is good/bad, not that I don't trust you on your experience Delmar, but i'll have to try things out for myself, anyways, thanks.
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:07 am
Deimos_Strife Alright, but just to make sure i'll go there and ask for a sparring match to see if it really is good/bad, not that I don't trust you on your experience Delmar, but i'll have to try things out for myself, anyways, thanks. There is no sparring in Aikido so don't be suprised if they turn you down. The only way I can see it happening is if a practitioner has cross trained in something else in which case he wont be using Aikido.
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:51 am
There isn't? X_X.
What kind of martial arts doesn't have sparring?
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:54 am
Deimos_Strife There isn't? X_X. What kind of martial arts doesn't have sparring? Bullshido ones twisted
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:22 am
Delmar_Denban Deimos_Strife There isn't? X_X. What kind of martial arts doesn't have sparring? Bullshido ones twisted Hehe, ok, I get your drift, stay away from Aikido 'cause it won't benefit anyone other than the one teaching it :p. Gonna let my friend read this thread tho, he claims he can defend himself using Aikido
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:26 am
Deimos_Strife Delmar_Denban Deimos_Strife There isn't? X_X. What kind of martial arts doesn't have sparring? Bullshido ones twisted Hehe, ok, I get your drift, stay away from Aikido 'cause it won't benefit anyone other than the one teaching it :p. Gonna let my friend read this thread tho, he claims he can defend himself using Aikido Cool, get him a gaia account and have him post here, i'll be more than happy to listen to his point of view. *scans the horizon for morrigen* ninja
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:40 am
Delmar_Denban Deimos_Strife Delmar_Denban Deimos_Strife There isn't? X_X. What kind of martial arts doesn't have sparring? Bullshido ones twisted Hehe, ok, I get your drift, stay away from Aikido 'cause it won't benefit anyone other than the one teaching it :p. Gonna let my friend read this thread tho, he claims he can defend himself using Aikido Cool, get him a gaia account and have him post here, i'll be more than happy to listen to his point of view. *scans the horizon for morrigen* ninja I bet he mostly thinks that 'cause he's inexperienced and don't know what he's doing, Aikido prolly sounded good to him when he talked to one of the other practitioners who (as you pracitcally said) told him it was a good martial art to train in
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