|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:13 pm
Couldn't it be said that it does make a sound, whether or not it's audible is the question.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:34 am
luftwafe I am really tired of hearing this question. What makes you so great mister zen bhuddist guy that sounds suddenly don't exist just becase you aren't there? Same thing applies to people that argue if stuff really exists or not. In the end does it really matter? If stuff no longer exists without an observer does it matter? How does this affect anyone at all. And If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around to hear it, it would still cause a vibration of surrouding air causing sonic waves. You must be materialist. That's cool.
In order to answer the question first we need answers. Definitions, that is. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition defines "sound" as "Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing." So by that, it is arguable to say that the sound would be made.
But...
You cannot prove that the sound exists for the Dictionary defines "hearing" as "The sense by which sound is perceived; the capacity to hear." Therefore, you must hear a sound in order to prove it exists and therein lies the folley of your arguement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:19 pm
luftwafe Oh a good answer to the box thing is "If the thing in the box was of any importance it's existence would be known or make it's self known, thereby the object in the box or lack thereof is moot. Suppose they simply forgot what was in the box? Tree- one could argue (and no offense if this doesn't apply to you) that if you never and probably have not seen one hundred million in cash, that doesn't mean that the amount does not exist nor that it is unable to made. Simply that none of us have ever experienced it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:25 pm
comrade acurion 120 Well i belive that the sepecific question is retorical so there fore has or is not ment to have an answer though here is somthing more Philisophical you can ponder your brains on "If a Box at any one period or place existed and no one knew it existed would it exist?" If you wanted it to exist then it would. I mean how do you know there isn't already?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:32 pm
Demon Kagerou luftwafe Kagerou Osajima Hmm... here's one... Why does my avatar have no hair? ummm It looks like it does though eek can be deceiving. pirate What is hair... what is my avatar? Ok well then if it doesn't havev any hair prove it because right now that's kind of all we have to go on. Ands even though I would agree with you most times just to make people think, I need you to give me a reason then just looks not to believe it. I mean for all you know i might be able to hear, smell, feel, and taste your avatars hair, you just don't know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:36 pm
I know how to solve this mysteryput a tape recorder in the woods then take some dynamite and blow the trunks of some trees and record their sound!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:22 pm
Viscount Scientifically, actually, the question can be answered: no. It will create vibrations and waves, this is true, but waves are not a sound. Waves are an effect of the tree falling, and sound is an effect of those waves being translated by the right mechanisms. Lightwaves travel at, well, the speed of light; whether or not they are percieved, lightwaves are present(excepting cases of utmost blacknesses, see: blackholes). However, unless this raw data can be decoded into an image, there is no image, simply lightwaves. Basically, if a cause typically creates an effect, but there is nothing around to affect, is there still an effect? I'm sure there is an effect, even if no one is effected.Well, for one, if we count the little forest creatures, I'm sure they are effected. But if we don't, and just say there was no living being with auditory perception around, I still see no reason why there wouldn't be a sound. It makes no sense to me. There are constant, infinite causes being made which are followed by infinite effects. Even if it's indirect, those effects are felt everywhere. You might have not heard that tree fall, but it surely did where it did.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:03 pm
Tree-
Sound- Well, no. I think that has been proved by the scientific definition of the word "sound" as apposed to "sound waves".
Effect- It would. Let's say that it's a large tree. There is a small tremor. This causes some dirt to be thrown in the air. Since this is a volcanic Island (I have just decided) there is Sulfur in the dirt. This forms Sulfuric Acid in the atmosphere and causes acid parcipitaiton in Honolulu, Hawaii. This is a counter-example of there being no effect. A bit close to slippery slope, but not yet there, barely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:34 am
Necera Viscount Scientifically, actually, the question can be answered: no. It will create vibrations and waves, this is true, but waves are not a sound. Waves are an effect of the tree falling, and sound is an effect of those waves being translated by the right mechanisms. Lightwaves travel at, well, the speed of light; whether or not they are percieved, lightwaves are present(excepting cases of utmost blacknesses, see: blackholes). However, unless this raw data can be decoded into an image, there is no image, simply lightwaves. Basically, if a cause typically creates an effect, but there is nothing around to affect, is there still an effect? I'm sure there is an effect, even if no one is effected.Well, for one, if we count the little forest creatures, I'm sure they are effected. But if we don't, and just say there was no living being with auditory perception around, I still see no reason why there wouldn't be a sound. It makes no sense to me. There are constant, infinite causes being made which are followed by infinite effects. Even if it's indirect, those effects are felt everywhere. You might have not heard that tree fall, but it surely did where it did. On this topic it's like saying if something happened and no one were to experience it then did it actually now most people would say yes it did you just said it did but if you look a little more into the question you can well yes it did but does it really matter and isn't that one of the reasons you ask a question is because it matters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:22 am
I love that phrase "In the end, it doesn't matter." But if you looked at everything that way, nothing does.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:31 pm
I would just like to say that I have never heard of the tree actually hitting the ground or anything. It's always just falling. That's it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:31 am
luftwafe I am really tired of hearing this question. What makes you so great mister zen bhuddist guy that sounds suddenly don't exist just becase you aren't there? Same thing applies to people that argue if stuff really exists or not. In the end does it really matter? If stuff no longer exists without an observer does it matter? How does this affect anyone at all. And If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around to hear it, it would still cause a vibration of surrouding air causing sonic waves. the zen koans are meant to be an exercise undertaken by a pupil overseen by a master. i dont know why this one has become so popular, this one and the one hand clapping one, but it annoys the crap out of me, as i see it does you too, when it is used out of context and expected to have profound meaning. good day
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:00 pm
chaos_messenger5863 Necera Viscount Scientifically, actually, the question can be answered: no. It will create vibrations and waves, this is true, but waves are not a sound. Waves are an effect of the tree falling, and sound is an effect of those waves being translated by the right mechanisms. Lightwaves travel at, well, the speed of light; whether or not they are percieved, lightwaves are present(excepting cases of utmost blacknesses, see: blackholes). However, unless this raw data can be decoded into an image, there is no image, simply lightwaves. Basically, if a cause typically creates an effect, but there is nothing around to affect, is there still an effect? I'm sure there is an effect, even if no one is effected.Well, for one, if we count the little forest creatures, I'm sure they are effected. But if we don't, and just say there was no living being with auditory perception around, I still see no reason why there wouldn't be a sound. It makes no sense to me. There are constant, infinite causes being made which are followed by infinite effects. Even if it's indirect, those effects are felt everywhere. You might have not heard that tree fall, but it surely did where it did. On this topic it's like saying if something happened and no one were to experience it then did it actually now most people would say yes it did you just said it did but if you look a little more into the question you can well yes it did but does it really matter and isn't that one of the reasons you ask a question is because it matters. Well, I think it does matter. That question tests the "perception is reality" concept. If we don't see it, did it happen? This question is almost, if not entirely, impossible to answer.. so it's something to speculate, to ponder, and try to find the most sensible answer. It does have it's importance.. unless you think nothing matters.. which at that point there is nothing to say. smile
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:36 pm
Pinkpod I would just like to say that I have never heard of the tree actually hitting the ground or anything. It's always just falling. That's it. Haha.. another good one. You're funny, you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:51 pm
AbrAbraxas luftwafe I am really tired of hearing this question. What makes you so great mister zen bhuddist guy that sounds suddenly don't exist just becase you aren't there? Same thing applies to people that argue if stuff really exists or not. In the end does it really matter? If stuff no longer exists without an observer does it matter? How does this affect anyone at all. And If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around to hear it, it would still cause a vibration of surrouding air causing sonic waves. the zen koans are meant to be an exercise undertaken by a pupil overseen by a master. i dont know why this one has become so popular, this one and the one hand clapping one, but it annoys the crap out of me, as i see it does you too, when it is used out of context and expected to have profound meaning. good day You are right. It is all too often taken out of context. Here I am, analizing it scientifically, when in fact it is a beautiful saying that expresses powerful meaning. So, in that sense... If I tree falls, and lands, and no one hears it, it's just as good as it not happening at all. No one heard it, therefore no one knows, and it is a lost happening that forever goes unnoticed. But that tree fell, either way. It felt it's fall, and knew it. Soooo... I might have just killed it.. but I'm just trying to outline what happened to understand it's meaning, and how it can relate. But.. a concept like that can only be understood. It's quite difficult to put it's essence into words.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
