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 Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:33 pm
nathan_ngl DarkHalcyon And BBQ isn't that easy! I've nearly blown myself up so many times! domokun How did you accomplish that? xd Ah, at home the old gas grill is well... An old gas grill. It wasn't igniting fast enough so I threw a match at it. ( I don't recommend that. Instead, buy a new grill sweatdrop ) Then of course, there's charcoal, and DarkHalcyon's don't mix well with lighter fluid. (or marshmellow flame-balls whee )
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:38 pm
DarkHalcyon nathan_ngl DarkHalcyon And BBQ isn't that easy! I've nearly blown myself up so many times! domokun How did you accomplish that? xd Ah, at home the old gas grill is well... An old gas grill. It wasn't igniting fast enough so I threw a match at it. ( I don't recommend that. Instead, buy a new grill sweatdrop ) Then of course, there's charcoal, and DarkHalcyon's don't mix well with lighter fluid. (or marshmellow flame-balls whee ) lol.. That reminds me of my first futile attempts to light our gas grill with that spark plug thingy... in the end I threw a match in. After letting the gas go for about 2 mins while looking for matches... FWOOM!!! eek
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:39 pm
I can cook anything EXCEPT bbq...
And Judaism isn't sexist in the sense of inequality.
It is sexist in the sense of DIFFERENT roles for men and women.
Good or bad... I'm not sure.
I do have a few questions:
If women aren't obligated, but allowed to perform the mitzvot, why, in an Orthodox synagouge, do they never recieve an Aliyah?
Why are women not counted towards a minyan?
Why do women not lead services? (And I want a longer explanation than modesty. I want to know why it's immodest for a woman to lead services, or if the explanation is different than that.)
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:45 pm
RoseRose If women aren't obligated, but allowed to perform the mitzvot, why, in an Orthodox synagouge, do they never recieve an Aliyah? Why are women not counted towards a minyan? Why do women not lead services? (And I want a longer explanation than modesty. I want to know why it's immodest for a woman to lead services, or if the explanation is different than that.) The answer to all 3 questions is exactly what you said: If women are not obligated, they cannot lead the service for others or count as part of a minyan, or get an aliyah. This is because the whole point of the minyan, leading service, and aliyah is someone who is hayav for the mitzva, otherwise, they can't count towards completing the hiyuv, because there was no hiyuv in the first place (this is the same reason a child cannot get an aliyah, nor an eved). A minyan is a group of people that have an obligation to do the mitzvah. Someone who gets an aliyah is someone that is chosen among them for the torah portion - if the person wasn't obligated in the first place... there's no point in it. And as for leading services, same as the minyan - if a woman doesn't count as part of the minyan, then being a chazan is out of the question.
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:47 pm
hiyav=obligation
eved=slave/servant
more to the point...one with a lesser obligation cannot be yotzei (literally "going out". refers to an action that one does with another in mind, for which the other recieves merit) one with a greater obligation. all the mitzvos above, women are not obligated to do, or at least not on the level of men. those same mitzvos involve others, and in fact others must partake in order to complete the mitzvah.
of course, there are other reasons, but that's the best blanket, and most important
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:57 am
nathan_ngl RoseRose If women aren't obligated, but allowed to perform the mitzvot, why, in an Orthodox synagouge, do they never recieve an Aliyah? Why are women not counted towards a minyan? Why do women not lead services? (And I want a longer explanation than modesty. I want to know why it's immodest for a woman to lead services, or if the explanation is different than that.) The answer to all 3 questions is exactly what you said: If women are not obligated, they cannot lead the service for others or count as part of a minyan, or get an aliyah. This is because the whole point of the minyan, leading service, and aliyah is someone who is hayav for the mitzva, otherwise, they can't count towards completing the hiyuv, because there was no hiyuv in the first place (this is the same reason a child cannot get an aliyah, nor an eved). A minyan is a group of people that have an obligation to do the mitzvah. Someone who gets an aliyah is someone that is chosen among them for the torah portion - if the person wasn't obligated in the first place... there's no point in it. And as for leading services, same as the minyan - if a woman doesn't count as part of the minyan, then being a chazan is out of the question. I guess... I just have an issue because I know I'm completely capable of both leading services and reading Torah, and I do so at my Conservative synagouge, but I could NEVER do it at Chabad. About the only thing I don't like about Chabad. (As for telling me I should go to Hillel... the Hillel here SUCKS). Also, some prayers require a community... and Chabad can't get a minyan most of the time. There's not a huge Jewish population here, and Hillel does take more, being that the Jewish population tends towards the Reform. I'm Conservative, and I feel much more comfortable in the atmosphere of Chabad... but, we have 4-5 men, including the Rabbi, most Fridays, and 7 or so women, plus the Rabbi's four children. Thus, no minyan. So... when I need to say Kaddish for my mother, I'll have to go to Hillel, where I feel uncomfortable, as opposed to Chabad, where I feel comfortable... Did that make ANY sense?
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:57 pm
RoseRose nathan_ngl RoseRose If women aren't obligated, but allowed to perform the mitzvot, why, in an Orthodox synagouge, do they never recieve an Aliyah? Why are women not counted towards a minyan? Why do women not lead services? (And I want a longer explanation than modesty. I want to know why it's immodest for a woman to lead services, or if the explanation is different than that.) The answer to all 3 questions is exactly what you said: If women are not obligated, they cannot lead the service for others or count as part of a minyan, or get an aliyah. This is because the whole point of the minyan, leading service, and aliyah is someone who is hayav for the mitzva, otherwise, they can't count towards completing the hiyuv, because there was no hiyuv in the first place (this is the same reason a child cannot get an aliyah, nor an eved). A minyan is a group of people that have an obligation to do the mitzvah. Someone who gets an aliyah is someone that is chosen among them for the torah portion - if the person wasn't obligated in the first place... there's no point in it. And as for leading services, same as the minyan - if a woman doesn't count as part of the minyan, then being a chazan is out of the question. I guess... I just have an issue because I know I'm completely capable of both leading services and reading Torah, and I do so at my Conservative synagouge, but I could NEVER do it at Chabad. About the only thing I don't like about Chabad. (As for telling me I should go to Hillel... the Hillel here SUCKS). Also, some prayers require a community... and Chabad can't get a minyan most of the time. There's not a huge Jewish population here, and Hillel does take more, being that the Jewish population tends towards the Reform. I'm Conservative, and I feel much more comfortable in the atmosphere of Chabad... but, we have 4-5 men, including the Rabbi, most Fridays, and 7 or so women, plus the Rabbi's four children. Thus, no minyan. So... when I need to say Kaddish for my mother, I'll have to go to Hillel, where I feel uncomfortable, as opposed to Chabad, where I feel comfortable... Did that make ANY sense? not at all. and it stopped making sense right about here Quote: So... when I need to say Kaddish for my mother misconception breeds conflict
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:02 pm
hey it's it a mitzvah to have kids.. confused and i mean chicks pop out the watermelons you all call "children" sooo i say we deserve that mitzvah rolleyes go us ..
i mean i feel bad for guys you all have like so little clothes to pick from girls have pretty dresses and skirts and cute little jeans it's awomse guys just have baggy plain jeans .. it's not fun. 3nodding <> is happy she's a chick plus we have long pretty hair 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:41 pm
ZonkotheSane not at all. and it stopped making sense right about here Quote: So... when I need to say Kaddish for my mother misconception breeds conflict Okay... I see what you're saying. This is where my egalitarian Conservative upbringing rears its head. I FEEL obligated to say Kaddish, cause that's how I was raised, even if I'm not halachically required. And that was just an example. What if someone else, a male, at Chabad needs to say Kaddish?
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:20 pm
RoseRose ZonkotheSane not at all. and it stopped making sense right about here Quote: So... when I need to say Kaddish for my mother misconception breeds conflict Okay... I see what you're saying. This is where my egalitarian Conservative upbringing rears its head. I FEEL obligated to say Kaddish, cause that's how I was raised, even if I'm not halachically required. And that was just an example. What if someone else, a male, at Chabad needs to say Kaddish? Then he's not yotzei, and had better look for a minyan elsewhere, even if its a 30 minuite drive.
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:33 am
I completely agree with the first post. I just have one question:
Do I have to daven? I'm trying to daven at least once a week now that school is out, and that's because I thought davening was a must. But if it's optional for me to do, then I'll have less of a reason to daven.
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:53 am
TunaSandwitch I completely agree with the first post. I just have one question:
Do I have to daven? I'm trying to daven at least once a week now that school is out, and that's because I thought davening was a must. But if it's optional for me to do, then I'll have less of a reason to daven. Davening shouldn't be done because it's an obligation... Davening should be done because you feel the need to pray towards G-d. And the answer to your question - no, women are not obligated. You should still try to pray at least once a week though 3nodding !
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:11 am
nathan_ngl TunaSandwitch I completely agree with the first post. I just have one question:
Do I have to daven? I'm trying to daven at least once a week now that school is out, and that's because I thought davening was a must. But if it's optional for me to do, then I'll have less of a reason to daven. Davening shouldn't be done because it's an obligation... Davening should be done because you feel the need to pray towards G-d. And the answer to your question - no, women are not obligated. You should still try to pray at least once a week though 3nodding ! it might be interesting to explain why women aren't obligated...
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:44 am
ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl TunaSandwitch I completely agree with the first post. I just have one question:
Do I have to daven? I'm trying to daven at least once a week now that school is out, and that's because I thought davening was a must. But if it's optional for me to do, then I'll have less of a reason to daven. Davening shouldn't be done because it's an obligation... Davening should be done because you feel the need to pray towards G-d. And the answer to your question - no, women are not obligated. You should still try to pray at least once a week though 3nodding ! it might be interesting to explain why women aren't obligated... up for it? neutral
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:24 am
nathan_ngl TunaSandwitch I completely agree with the first post. I just have one question:
Do I have to daven? I'm trying to daven at least once a week now that school is out, and that's because I thought davening was a must. But if it's optional for me to do, then I'll have less of a reason to daven. Davening shouldn't be done because it's an obligation... Davening should be done because you feel the need to pray towards G-d. And the answer to your question - no, women are not obligated. You should still try to pray at least once a week though 3nodding !
But in that case, do I get a sin every time I don't daven? Even if it's not an obligation, I didn't conquer my Yetzer Harah.
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