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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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 Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:58 pm
Yeah, in the first movie, Broly was nearly at par with the strongest SSJ. At the time, any SSJ2 could have smoked him.
Note to Izayoi Kyoya: Are you absolutely sure that Gohan turned SSJ2 in the second Broly movie? I don't recall that at any point.
Now in the second movie, it takes a supposed SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goten and SSJ Chibi Trunks to take out Broly. You have to keep in mind that Goten and Trunks weren't of much help. They provided minor assistance; not enough to make a huge difference. If you combine Gohan and Goten's combined strength in that battle, you get roughly a SSJ2 at maximum (considering they fired a combined Kamehameha to take out Broly). Trunks did some solo fighting, thus he made nearly no difference.
As is clearly shown above, Broly was toasted by a beam that contained the strength of a maximum power SSJ2, or a low powered SSJ3. Thus, Mystic Gohan is still stronger than Broly, as he exceeds a SSJ3's strength.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:05 pm
What? Brolli was "popped" by a first stage Super Saiyajin with a power boost from two half-breeds, one is the son of the Saiyajin King and the other is a decendent of a god, a Namekian, and Vejita, the Saiyajin "King" himself. Goku was weakened, worn down, and had his balls blown up. Only with the additional ki of Vejita was Son able to pierce Brolli's barrier and his solarplexes. That's a Level One with a huge power boost. If I remember correctly, Level Two Adult Gohan wasn't "Manhandled" by Brolli so much as he was simply bear hugged (as per every other movie with Gohan as the main character) then Krillin saved him a la Piccolo in every movie where he saved Gohan's a**. I might be mistaken though. I'm not sure if you brought up a point in the first example. You're reminding me that Burori lost (only knocked out, mind you) to a SSJ1 who had the COMBINED might of 4 other beings, 3 of then being -Jins... I'm not sure if that proves how powerful Burori is, or if that proves this point is weaker than the claim that Chou Gohan is stronger than Burori. So you consider Gohan getting off (the best he's done) a cheap shot to Burori's face a fight? Do you consider tricking Burori (which I believe wasn't really a trick but Burori playing around AS USUAL) into being submerged in lava a fight? I've not once seen Gohan do anything that would remotely be called a fight when he fought Burori for the second time. Hell, the kids did better than him. Remember the time when Burori's ki blast etched close to Gohan's side and all he could do is close his eyes and cringe? Yeah, Gohan was really putting up a fight against Burori.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:23 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta Yeah, in the first movie, Broly was nearly at par with the strongest SSJ. At the time, any SSJ2 could have smoked him. Note to Izayoi Kyoya: Are you absolutely sure that Gohan turned SSJ2 in the second Broly movie? I don't recall that at any point. Now in the second movie, it takes a supposed SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goten and SSJ Chibi Trunks to take out Broly. You have to keep in mind that Goten and Trunks weren't of much help. They provided minor assistance; not enough to make a huge difference. If you combine Gohan and Goten's combined strength in that battle, you get roughly a SSJ2 at maximum (considering they fired a combined Kamehameha to take out Broly). Trunks did some solo fighting, thus he made nearly no difference. As is clearly shown above, Broly was toasted by a beam that contained the strength of a maximum power SSJ2, or a low powered SSJ3. Thus, Mystic Gohan is still stronger than Broly, as he exceeds a SSJ3's strength. In the first movie Burori was nearly on par with the strongest SSJ.... Escuse me while I go outside and laugh at the top of my lungs. Leaves, laughs to the point where his lungs feels like they're going to collaspe and returns to finish replySo this strongest SSJ you talk about.... does his name happen to be Kakarotto? Please tell me that it's not. Please. I have so much respect for you SMV but if you think Burori was nearly cringe on par with him, then I think I have lost that respect. Kakarotto wasn't in Burori's league AT ALL. End of discussion. Common sense in 3...2...1... Gohan, who knows of the destructive force that is Burori, is going to fight him at his weakest? Just answer that question and I'll get back to you. No, it took the combined might of Gohan, Goten and a wish from the dragon to beat Burori in movie #10. Heck, let's be real here. It wasn't a punch that beat Burori, it wasn't even 3 Super Kameha's. It was, in the end, bad writing that beat Burori. But I won't get intothat. Just know the details. The dragon's wish is what caused the defeat of Burori. If you're ruling out the fact that the wish from a dragon helped in that fight, then yeah, that might be true. Personally, I've only seen the subbed, so I don't know what crap they spewed in the dubbed version to that effect. I clearly remember someone saying "I wish we could beat him" and the dragon balls glowing and voila! Burori is defeated. And besides, are we now proclaiming that Chou Gohan can also take a super kameha blast from 2 SSJ2 and an SSJ1 (well, from what's been produced from the crummy wish, we have Kakarotto. A SSJ2). Has he actually done that yet? P.S. Trunks made no difference? I'm sure if you were in a gunfight and someone let of a M-5000 firecracker directly behind you that it would make a great deal of difference in your concentration during that gunfight.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:23 pm
Actually, it was an (alleged) Level 2 SSJ Gohan and SSJ Goten with the motivation/assistance of SSJ Goku in a Triple Kamehameha that kept Brolli's ever growing planet buster at bay.
When Young Trunks fired a ki blast to break the feed, the three Sons juiced it up to send Brolli flying into the sun (which still confuses me to this day).
Brolli's buster shouldn't be the basis for gauging his power as we've seen in the past how other characters' beams far succeed their own power level.
An Uber Punch killed him first.
A Triple Kamehameha and the sun re-opened his wound and exploded his heart.
I don't know if SSJ2 Gohan could've beaten Brolli on his own, as Saiyajin increase their power through each battle and near death loss, but we can rest assured that a SSJ3 could pluck his spine right out of his stomach.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:34 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta Yeah, in the first movie, Broly was nearly at par with the strongest SSJ. At the time, any SSJ2 could have smoked him. Note to Izayoi Kyoya: Are you absolutely sure that Gohan turned SSJ2 in the second Broly movie? I don't recall that at any point. Now in the second movie, it takes a supposed SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ Goten and SSJ Chibi Trunks to take out Broly. You have to keep in mind that Goten and Trunks weren't of much help. They provided minor assistance; not enough to make a huge difference. If you combine Gohan and Goten's combined strength in that battle, you get roughly a SSJ2 at maximum (considering they fired a combined Kamehameha to take out Broly). Trunks did some solo fighting, thus he made nearly no difference. As is clearly shown above, Broly was toasted by a beam that contained the strength of a maximum power SSJ2, or a low powered SSJ3. Thus, Mystic Gohan is still stronger than Broly, as he exceeds a SSJ3's strength. actualy.It took Goten Goahn Trunks and Goku(goten wished it)
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:39 pm
Izayoi Kyoya, I was referring to Goku after he absorbed everyone's energy. In that state, he was at maximum power in SSJ, which proved enough to take out Broly (keep in mind that Broly recieved almost no damage the rest of the time).
And unless you actually saw Gohan transform into a SSJ2 (you know, the state with blue bolts of electricity rapidly suring around him?), then he didn't. I know it was common sense for him to transform into SSJ2, but it's only proof if he actually did it, which I don't recall. I'm not exactly doubting you here, just looking for substancial evidence, or a solid word.
Next, I'm not referring to Chou Gohan's durability as you said, I am referring to the amount of damage he can dish out. Of course he couldn't take the kind of hit that you mentioned.
And about Trunks, he made a difference; getting Broly's attention a couple of times. He dealt no significant damage to him, and didn't assist in Gohan and Goten's combined Kamehameha.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:40 pm
What? Actually, it was an (alleged) Level 2 SSJ Gohan and SSJ Goten with the motivation/assistance of SSJ Goku in a Triple Kamehameha that kept Brolli's ever growing planet buster at bay. When Young Trunks fired a ki blast to break the feed, the three Sons juiced it up to send Brolli flying into the sun (which still confuses me to this day). Brolli's buster shouldn't be the basis for gauging his power as we've seen in the past how other characters' beams far succeed their own power level. An Uber Punch killed him first. A Triple Kamehameha and the sun re-opened his wound and exploded his heart. I don't know if SSJ2 Gohan could've beaten Brolli on his own, as Saiyajin increase their power through each battle and near death loss, but we can rest assured that a SSJ3 could pluck his spine right out of his stomach. Bad writing shouldnt't confuse you. Seriously, it shouldn't. I've never once mentioned Burori's blast as a gauge of his power (although -Jins are mainly known for it, sho why shouldn't we?). I'm assess him via who he's fought and how well. He's fought, in movie #8, 5 opponents. 4 were SSJ and one was a Super Namek. He not only held his own, he DOMINATED. The only way they won was combining their powers (once again, bad writing) into Kakarotto to dish out one fatal punch (chea right). In movie #10, it was, through the wish of the dragon balls, that TWO (yeah, count em) SSJ2 and a SSJ1 along with a much needed distraction, that won the battle for them. I see, at no point, Burori ever being dominated. And in order to prove that anything higher than SSJ2 would beat Burori is to prove that he had, at the very least, break even with an SSJ2. But he didn't. He clearly outmatched Gohan. It wasn't even a fight. If you think it was, then someone's eyesight must be checked ASAP. Umm.... the problem with that analogy "As Saiya-jins increase their power through each battle and near death loss" is that Burori would have to actual KEEP Gohan alive. Do you seriously think he would if this was a one on one? So once again, unless SSJ2 was given Burori problems, then saying SSJ3 would be the end for him is a statement with no backing. Seriously, I'm going to let it go. We all seem to have our opinion and it's best we just leave it as is.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:47 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta Izayoi Kyoya, I was referring to Goku after he absorbed everyone's energy. In that state, he was at maximum power in SSJ, which proved enough to take out Broly (keep in mind that Broly recieved almost no damage the rest of the time). And unless you actually saw Gohan transform into a SSJ2 (you know, the state with blue bolts of electricity rapidly suring around him?), then he didn't. I know it was common sense for him to transform into SSJ2, but it's only proof if he actually did it, which I don't recall. I'm not exactly doubting you here, just looking for substancial evidence, or a solid word. Next, I'm not referring to Chou Gohan's durability as you said, I am referring to the amount of damage he can dish out. Of course he couldn't take the kind of hit that you mentioned. And about Trunks, he made a difference; getting Broly's attention a couple of times. He dealt no significant damage to him, and didn't assist in Gohan and Goten's combined Kamehameha. So having the power of 4 others only make you the maximum of your own level? Never heard of that. Youtube it. They have the movie. Look at Gohan's hair. Also, when did you believe the movie to ever potray everything correctly as the series does? Aren't these the same movies that poorly fit into the series? The thing is that I'm noy doubting Chou Gohan's power. I'm just saying is that there's really no grounds to these claims that Burori's weaker than SSJ3 and essentially, Chou Gohan. This is, ultimately, impossible to do with how different the movie are to the series. All I'm saying is that Trunks was more important than you'd like to believe.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:51 pm
Yeah...Gohan sucks as a fighter. He's a "Great Scholar."
He's more cute than anything.
And yes, the kids wished they could beat Brolli, so the dragon sent Goku down to let them know they could (allegedly).
...Instead of calling him "Mystic/Chou Gohan" can't we just call him Shin Gohan or something classy like that?
I mean...it's a maxed out version of his true self. He's more focused, and uber powerful.
Kind of like an adult version of himself. Determined and less sweet.
He'd kick Brolli's a**.
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:54 pm
Well good always win against evil. So yeah, Gohan win.
At least outside of my fanfic, that is....
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:03 pm
Izayoi Kyoya So having the power of 4 others only make you the maximum of your own level? Never heard of that. Youtube it. They have the movie. Look at Gohan's hair. Also, when did you believe the movie to ever potray everything correctly as the series does? Aren't these the same movies that poorly fit into the series? The thing is that I'm noy doubting Chou Gohan's power. I'm just saying is that there's really no grounds to these claims that Burori's weaker than SSJ3 and essentially, Chou Gohan. This is, ultimately, impossible to do with how different the movie are to the series. All I'm saying is that Trunks was more important than you'd like to believe. Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo were all severely weakened when they gave Goku their energy. Not to mention that Goku was just like them as well. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't achieve something similar to a SSJ2's power. And alright, I'm dropping this part on Gohan being SSJ2. I never believed them to portray the same accuracy as the series, nor did I believe that they ever fit into the series. All I was looking for here was confirmation. Then it comes down to opinions here. I personally believe that Chou Gohan could take out Broly, but since there aren't enough grounds to prove that, I'll leave it unsolved.
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:12 pm
Saiyan Master Vegeta Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo were all severely weakened when they gave Goku their energy. Not to mention that Goku was just like them as well. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't achieve something similar to a SSJ2's power. And alright, I'm dropping this part on Gohan being SSJ2. I never believed them to portray the same accuracy as the series, nor did I believe that they ever fit into the series. All I was looking for here was confirmation. Then it comes down to opinions here. I personally believe that Chou Gohan could take out Broly, but since there aren't enough grounds to prove that, I'll leave it unsolved. It's not more of achieving SSJ2 power level with this gather of power but having enogh power in ONE punch to stop Burori. Kakarotto had to focus all the power given to him into one punch in order to put down Burori. This is another reason why I said that bad writing did Burori in. How in the world does Kakarotto get enough power in one punch to harm someone who can survive a planet buster AS A CHILD. Bad writing Waves shoe at script writersWeakened state or not, they gave Kakarotto their power. Energy disperse is a factor affected during fatigue. They still have the energy, it's just they can't use it.
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:23 pm
HULK SMASH!! HULK HORNY!!!!!!!!!! *millions of people* oh myh god run for your life!!!!!!!!!!!
hahaha.......haha..
hmmmmm i would say hulk losses cause he cant fly..... or shoot ki blast... but then again hulk can win because of allt he crap he went through.......
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:56 pm
If you want my honest opinion;
I think Brolli is one of those characters that'll always be on par with whatever character is sent his way simply because he's such a good movie character.
Makes for drama and tension.
As for the bad writing rap...
Movie 8 was one of the best DBZ movies ever (excluding the amazing first three) and only ranks lower to Movies 9, 12, and 13.
But...that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:28 pm
Personally from what I've read, Broly's true power has never been guaged and he can be seen as being only slightly weaker then uber Perfect Cell, or as the most powerful villian in the entire series.
And I know some one did not just say the Hulk loses because he can't fly. He leaps farther and higher then the DBZ cast have ever been shown able to fly(minus Gotenks).
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