Welcome to Gaia! ::

I first heard this termed the "halo effect" in a book I read on body language. Body language is a pretty interesting subject in psychology, though it hasn't been covered in any of the courses I've had so far. I thought about looking up more about it.

Another similar effect is the attribution error, whereby a person assumes that an exhibited behavior is a fundamental trait of that person. For example, you meet someone for the first time and they're having a bad day, and are not very agreeable. You might mistakenly say that "this person is a jerk" instead of "this person is just having a bad day." We do it all the time... we see a person we have just met exhibit a particular behavior and we just assume it is a pervasive behavior and describes them as a whole. If it weren't for this... first impressions wouldn't count nearly as much as they unfortunately do. xp

My apologies - I'm getting lazy with this topic.
I haven't had the time yet to take notes yet, but as soon as I do, I will post them.

-Alezunde

NOTES

The statement: There are fundamental differences in the inner workings of the minds of men and women.

The purpose of this discussion is to discern the following:

1 - Is the statement true?
2 - If the above statement is true, what are these differences?
3 - If the statement is true, are the differences discovered large enough to warrant a difference in the treatment of men versus women?


Fundamental (definition):
1 - Relating to the foundation or base, elementary
2 - Forming or serving as as essential component to a system or structure

In the case of this argument, fundamental refers to the most basic workings of the minds of men and women, each as a whole.


Argument 1 - Emotional Reactions (against the statement) Alezunde -

Men and women react to the same emotions in the same manner.
(Example: Men and women react to happiness, sadness, anger, etc in the same manner - gender plays no role in an individual's experience/expression of these emotions.)

Status: No evidence has been offered to disprove this argument.


Argument 2 - Society Imposes (against the statement) Alezunde -

Any differences in the behavior of men and women is society-imposed.
Men and women have been placed into accepted roles for centuries, and we subconciously conform to these roles.

Counter argument from Kalile Alako -
Men and women act differently not because of society, but because they possess the natural tendencies to act in such a manner.
Amends: A third party works largely with foreign exchange students. They have stated that the behavior of the foreign students is radically different from that of US students, probably due to their cultural upbringing. (This suggests that culture does indeed have a large effect on our psyche.)

Status: No evidence has been offered that disproves this statement.


Argument 3 - Physical Affection (for the statement) Kalile Alako -

Women are more prone to displays physical affection. Even homosexual males are not given so openly to these displays.

Counter argument from Alezunde -
Society does not expect men to be in touch with their emotional impulses, (hugging is an emotional impulse) therefore, it is not as common, as it is not deemed socially acceptable.

Counter argument from Kahrli -
There have been studies of certain African tribes in which women are seen as the more domineering gender, while men are more emotional and artistic. (Almost a complete turnaround in contrast to the American society.)

Status: No solid evidence has been offered to disprove this argument, but there are very strong counter arguments.


Argument 4 - Dating Habits (for the statement) Kalile Alako -

Women are not as prone to proposing dating scenarios to men. Men ask out the women.

Counter argument from Alezunde -
This is a traditional standard.

Status: There is no solid evidence to disprove this argument, but the counter-argument is a strong opposition.


Argument 5 - Gender Talents (against the statement) Starlock -

It is dangerous to make generalizations based on gender. There are studies that claim that the average man is a bit better at given things than an average woman. Or vice versa. This is problematic because you would be hard-pressed to find an 'average' man or an 'average' woman.
Even if there are differences, they are probably so minute that it hardly matters.

Affirmation from Alezunde -
You would think that results from such studies would be much more consistent.

Status: No evidence has been offered to disprove this argument.


Argument 6 - Physical Size (for the statement) Aoi sama the fisherman -

Men tend to be larger and stronger than women as they mature. Physical build/size can influence an individual's view of the world.

Counter argument from Alezunde -
I would expect the differences in physical build between men and women to be more consistent if build was purely gender-based. There are men and women both of all sizes.

Affirmation from Alezunde -
It is true that it is possible for physical size to affect an individual's behavior. (Smaller people could be more intimidated by larger people.)
It is also true that some hormonal differences between men and women will cause men to develop more muscle mass as they mature.

Status: No solid evidence has been offered that disproves this argument.


Argument 7 - Physical Size (for the statement) Aoi sama the fisherman -

Men and women resolve conflicts differently. Men will be content to fight it out, then forget the ordeal. Women tend to hold grudges and not get involved in physical conflicts.

Counter argument from Alezunde -
I think that this is also a society-imposed behavior. Not all men get physically involved, and then forget conflicts. Not all women will hold a grudge.
I think that it is simply socially acceptable for men to fight, but not women - thus, women do not often fight. (It is possible that they try to take out their agression in another manner, and this will distract from the possibility of resolving their conflicts.)

Status: This argument has not been disproved, but the counter argument is a strong opposition.


Argument 8 - Hormonal Differences (for the statement) Alezunde, various others -

Men and women possess different levels of the same chemicals and hormones in their body.
It is speculated that these differences cause noticeable behavioral changes. (As in, men and women each as a whole will react differently to the same stimuli due to these differences.)

Affirmation from Comrade God -
For example, there are people who have been diagnosed with chronic depression - an ailment caused by chemical levels much different from that of a 'normal' individual. This causes the individual to respond differently to the same stimulus.

Counter argument from Alezunde -
While men and women may act differently due to hormonal changes, they do not act fundamentally different. They still respond to happiness, sadness, and other emotions in the same manner. Their reactions may vary in degree, however. (The same argument applies to the example of a chronically depressed individual.)
Also, see Argument 9.

Status: No solid evidence has been offered to disprove this statement, but there are strong arguments on both sides. (Research this topic more!)


Argument 9 - Brain Functions (against the statement) Alezunde -

There are claims that men, for example, are more proficient with numbers. There are claims that men cannot process more than one step of a set of directions at the same time. There are claims that women can track more targets at once than men.
For these claims to be true, men and women would most likely have to have brains that operate in entirely different manners. (They would have to bear different physical configurations.)
In turn, this would most likely massively affect the psychological behaviors between men and women.
Men and women are psychologically similar. (Example: women the same self-esteem issues that men have, and their self-esteem issues are solved in the same manner.)
Therefore, it is probably that men and women bear the same psychological patterns.
Also, there has been no solid evidence to suggest that men are universally better with numbers, etc.

Status: No evidence has been offered to disprove this argument.

+++

There are other arguments that I haven't covered yet, but this post is turning out to be a lot of work. sweatdrop

I will add more as I get the time. smile


-Alezunde

P.S. In presenting the arguments, I tried to capture the essence of each argument in a clear manner.
Under the 'status' of each argument, I tried to be as fair and neutral as possible when determining the status.
If enough people would like to vote to change the status of a given argument, I would be more than happy to do so.

Thank you very much for the information. ^_^
I am editing my post.
I may put my synopsis into the first post as well.

-Alezunde

I echo what you have to say about this.

Argument 6 - Physical Size (for the statement) Aoi sama the fisherman -

Men tend to be larger and stronger than women as they mature. Physical build/size can influence an individual's view of the world.

Counter argument from Alezunde -
I would expect the differences in physical build between men and women to be more consistent if build was purely gender-based. There are men and women both of all sizes.

Affirmation from Alezunde -
It is true that it is possible for physical size to affect an individual's behavior. (Smaller people could be more intimidated by larger people.)
It is also true that some hormonal differences between men and women will cause men to develop more muscle mass as they mature.

Status: No solid evidence has been offered that disproves this argument.

I offer this small personal experience to the discussion which is as well thought as ever. I have a girlfriend( eek )Which I have known for a time before we started dating and we have been dating a year. Well to jump back on tangent here, she is about 5'7 in height and is a small person. Now that being said, she will kick your a** before you can blink. It is because of her upbringing not to take crap from nobody. I also know a rather large fellow that is a black belt in several diferent martial arts, and he takes insults and crap all day long, and hes always been like that. So it is not society. It is not neccesarily even cultural. The main shaping in differences between people is their parents. If a person is raised in a baptist home, then if they decide to go to church when they are older and have moved away, then they will be more inclined to attend a baptist, rather than say a methodist.(Yes there is a difference.)Same goes for a smoking household. My father has always had a ciggarette in hand or mouth as long as I can remember. Well I tried it and got hooked. I quit though and I am immensely proud of that acclomplishment. Now since this has drug on further than I had really intended it too, I am done, and please point out any major and/or minor flaws.

I was actually using that post to illustrate my last point which was that its more upbring that makes each different rather than physical or even cultural difference. You can't assume (And I think we all know what that spells.)) that just because some one is a certain gender that they will react a certain way. In fact I think the only reason gender is around is solely for the use of procreation. Other than that, the differences are minimal. As far as the olympics go, they were invented in a country ruled by what? Men. And the games were originally for who? Men. I use this merely to point out that of course they would be skewed toward men. Men started training for this kind of thing for hundreds of years before women. Evolution had just enough time to tweak the males a litle bit. Of course there were your couch potatoes that didn't and their genes were passed down as well. So all these genes have been interacting and converging and splitting apart into these new genes with this skew in mind. And it was only fifty years ago that all these rights movements really took hold. So the females are actually playing catch up evolutionally speaking. And that also accounts for women that are stronger or weaker than the norm. And men as well. Because a hundred to two hundred years ago, yes, women worked hard but the men still worked harder. And throughout the mainstream society in europe and the mediteranian((Spelling sucks.)) the less work a woman did the higher she was on the society chain. So that was also part of the skew. I know this sounds sexist and completely looney but face it. I'm crazy, and I am going to say crazy things. Thank you for actually reading this pile of illogical crap. I would ask you to point out the flaws but I'm afraid they are probaly too numerous to count.