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Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:12 pm


Kitty Chicken
That being said, Wisconsin was kind of a huge mess in World War I, due to many not even wanting to go into war period since their attachments were with Germany and so on.


I can see that... During WWI I know Tennessee, North Carolina and South Carolina were teamed up in the 30th Infantry Division. They were good but didn't really make a name for themselves until WWII. During WWII it was just Tennessee and North Carolina together and they pulled some absolutely ridiculous crap. They became known as the "workhorse of the western front" by the allies and "Roosevelt's SS Troops" by the Germans (which basically meant Germany regarded Tennessee and North Carolina as America's most elite shock troops.) I can't remember the exact quote, but I know the historian officially assigned by the army to review the war determined that the 30th was was the finest division of the European theater.

One of my favorite stories was from the 117th (Tennessee) where the troops were listening to Axis Sally and she said "That radical 30th Division is on its way to rescue the army, but they'll be crushed this time!" Tennessee's reaction was a simple "... How did she know we were coming? Axis Sally is amazing. <_<"
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:04 pm


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
That being said, Wisconsin was kind of a huge mess in World War I, due to many not even wanting to go into war period since their attachments were with Germany and so on.


I can see that... During WWI I know Tennessee, North Carolina and South Carolina were teamed up in the 30th Infantry Division. They were good but didn't really make a name for themselves until WWII. During WWII it was just Tennessee and North Carolina together and they pulled some absolutely ridiculous crap. They became known as the "workhorse of the western front" by the allies and "Roosevelt's SS Troops" by the Germans (which basically meant Germany regarded Tennessee and North Carolina as America's most elite shock troops.) I can't remember the exact quote, but I know the historian officially assigned by the army to review the war determined that the 30th was was the finest division of the European theater.

One of my favorite stories was from the 117th (Tennessee) where the troops were listening to Axis Sally and she said "That radical 30th Division is on its way to rescue the army, but they'll be crushed this time!" Tennessee's reaction was a simple "... How did she know we were coming? Axis Sally is amazing. <_<"


Hahaha, yes! I love Tennessee's and North Carolina's role in the wars - actually their histories are fascinating as a whole from what I was trying to design of them in my game. The problem is, I never played them because I realized they'd probably interact with each other a bit and it would have been a case of playercesting in a way.

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:13 pm


Kitty Chicken
Hahaha, yes! I love Tennessee's and North Carolina's role in the wars - actually their histories are fascinating as a whole from what I was trying to design of them in my game. The problem is, I never played them because I realized they'd probably interact with each other a bit and it would have been a case of playercesting in a way.


I think Tennessee and North Carolina have one of the most interesting relationships. I usually play them off as brother and sister, but one thing I always feel like people need to be reminded of is that Tennessee was actually a separate government before it joined with North Carolina. It wasn't actually spawned from her and had existed officially as the Watauga Association since 1772 then later joined up.

I especially like thinking of them as brother and sister because it makes Tennessee's reasons for getting directly involved with the Revolutionary War so much cuter. I can see baby Tennessee being like "Don't pick on my sister! >.<" then he violently crushes Cornwallis' western flank and causes the British Army to retreat and back off for 3 months. (My favorite part of the Battle of King's Mountain story is how afterward the Loyalists was like "Holy s**t! I don't want to fight that mountain psycho! ;_;" and everyone thought baby Tennessee was infinitely stronger than he was.)

Er... Well, actually it was because Tennessee was defending North Carolina and being a nuisance to the British army that he got threatened and THEN he kind of went crazy violent and smashed up some redcoats... But still! The root cause is someone was picking on his sister.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:28 pm


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
Hahaha, yes! I love Tennessee's and North Carolina's role in the wars - actually their histories are fascinating as a whole from what I was trying to design of them in my game. The problem is, I never played them because I realized they'd probably interact with each other a bit and it would have been a case of playercesting in a way.


I think Tennessee and North Carolina have one of the most interesting relationships. I usually play them off as brother and sister, but one thing I always feel like people need to be reminded of is that Tennessee was actually a separate government before it joined with North Carolina. It wasn't actually spawned from her and had existed officially as the Watauga Association since 1772 then later joined up.

I especially like thinking of them as brother and sister because it makes Tennessee's reasons for getting directly involved with the Revolutionary War so much cuter. I can see baby Tennessee being like "Don't pick on my sister! >.<" then he violently crushes Cornwallis' western flank and causes the British Army to retreat and back off for 3 months. (My favorite part of the Battle of King's Mountain story is how afterward the Loyalists was like "Holy s**t! I don't want to fight that mountain psycho! ;_;" and everyone thought baby Tennessee was infinitely stronger than he was.)

Er... Well, actually it was because Tennessee was defending North Carolina and being a nuisance to the British army that he got threatened and THEN he kind of went crazy violent and smashed up some redcoats... But still! The root cause is someone was picking on his sister.


That is actually an adorable and cute image, I personally always saw the south thinking of themselves as a big family in a way -- even if they're all not necessarily brother and sister, but they're often really bonded together in a way, compared to say the midwestern states who remain pretty distant and cold with each other. (The Mountain States I notice have a a sort of distant and cold relationship where they might not rarely meet, but they'll help each other out I noticed too if something really big happens.)

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:39 pm


Kitty Chicken
That is actually an adorable and cute image, I personally always saw the south thinking of themselves as a big family in a way -- even if they're all not necessarily brother and sister, but they're often really bonded together in a way, compared to say the midwestern states who remain pretty distant and cold with each other. (The Mountain States I notice have a a sort of distant and cold relationship where they might not rarely meet, but they'll help each other out I noticed too if something really big happens.)


The South is pretty intense and take the idea of "we take care of our own" to a whole new level. But it wasn't always entirely that way... When the Union was just being formed, the eastern states looked down on the western states (Kentucky and soon after Tennessee) and essentially left those two to fend for themselves. It wasn't until after 1812 when Tennessee defended the south against the Creek, Seminole and British and Kentucky protected the Northwest territories from the Shawnee Confederacy and British that they started getting some respect. It was only about that time America and the other states started seeing some worth in those two... ^^;
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:20 pm


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
That is actually an adorable and cute image, I personally always saw the south thinking of themselves as a big family in a way -- even if they're all not necessarily brother and sister, but they're often really bonded together in a way, compared to say the midwestern states who remain pretty distant and cold with each other. (The Mountain States I notice have a a sort of distant and cold relationship where they might not rarely meet, but they'll help each other out I noticed too if something really big happens.)


The South is pretty intense and take the idea of "we take care of our own" to a whole new level. But it wasn't always entirely that way... When the Union was just being formed, the eastern states looked down on the western states (Kentucky and soon after Tennessee) and essentially left those two to fend for themselves. It wasn't until after 1812 when Tennessee defended the south against the Creek, Seminole and British and Kentucky protected the Northwest territories from the Shawnee Confederacy and British that they started getting some respect. It was only about that time America and the other states started seeing some worth in those two... ^^;


That always seemed to be the case I noticed, the original states rarely saw worth until it was proven in some shape or form. That being said: Kentucky and Indiana's relationship always fascinated me too, in a kind of hilarious way of how much they really sort of loath each other - I'm also sort of curious how Kentucky's and Tennsesee's relationship was during the Civil War too. Considering Kentucky was a Union State but also a slave state.

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:40 pm


Kitty Chicken
That always seemed to be the case I noticed, the original states rarely saw worth until it was proven in some shape or form. That being said: Kentucky and Indiana's relationship always fascinated me too, in a kind of hilarious way of how much they really sort of loath each other


Any story with Indiana is usually hilarious in some shape or form. I love Indiana stories... XD I need to learn more of them.

Kitty Chicken
I'm also sort of curious how Kentucky's and Tennsesee's relationship was during the Civil War too. Considering Kentucky was a Union State but also a slave state.


Ah, now that is a hard one to explain... Actually, Tennessee and Kentucky were basically the same in their opinions of the Confederacy and the Union. What tipped Tennessee into the Confederacy was... kind of a long and tragic story.

People mistakenly think Tennessee voted first not to secede by a slim margin then voted later to secede, but that's not really true. The first thing Tennessee voted on wasn't about secession itself. It was actually about whether or not Tennessee wanted to have a convention about secession and, if so, who would Tennessee want to be represented by. Tennessee was split on whether to have the convention but voted against it (this is the part most people say was about secession) and the part where it asked what representation Tennessee wanted every single one of Tennessee's grand divisions voted for Union representatives. So what Tennessee said wasn't "I don't want to secede!" it actually said "I don't want to talk about it, and even if I did, I'd only want to talk about it with Unionists." The governor didn't accept this and started making under the table deals with the legislature and CSA then sent Tennessee's militia to defend Virginia without the state's approval. Which automatically put Tennessee in a state of de facto rebellion. This caused Unionists to freak out and call foul so the governor had the second statewide election. But by the time the second election had come about so many Unionists had either fled, were hiding from voter intimidation or had run off to join the Union army that we may never honestly know what Tennessee was thinking at that point. It's one of those things historians debate and there are still some people in the Eastern Division (the part that had to be occupied by the CSA army and openly rebelled) who will swear to you their state was tricked/hijacked by the governor and radical minority and never legitimately should have been part of the CSA.

Kentucky declared neutrality but no one really believed it could remain neutral. What tipped Kentucky was being invaded by the CSA and so it went with the Union, but it honestly could have gone either way. (Well, I think Kentucky would have probably stuck with the Union regardless, but people say it could have gone either way.)

Considering how both states were kind of in the same boat of reluctance (sort of almost) there really wasn't a lot of animosity between them. In fact, when a group of Tennessee soldiers (Morgan's Raid, I think?) invaded there were people in Kentucky who openly welcomed them and would even give them stuff. It was kind of like "Oh, hey, Tennessee, good to see you." "Sup, Kentucky?" "Not much... but you do realize as part of the Union I have to shoot you now, right?" "Fair enough but only if you can catch me!" Then Kentucky's militia chased Tennessee's people for a while and I was like "Oh, lawl, those two..."

I probably need to do more research on it and that's all pretty general so don't base a thesis on what I said, but I'm fairly confident it's accurate.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:00 am


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
That always seemed to be the case I noticed, the original states rarely saw worth until it was proven in some shape or form. That being said: Kentucky and Indiana's relationship always fascinated me too, in a kind of hilarious way of how much they really sort of loath each other


Any story with Indiana is usually hilarious in some shape or form. I love Indiana stories... XD I need to learn more of them.

Kitty Chicken
I'm also sort of curious how Kentucky's and Tennsesee's relationship was during the Civil War too. Considering Kentucky was a Union State but also a slave state.


Ah, now that is a hard one to explain... Actually, Tennessee and Kentucky were basically the same in their opinions of the Confederacy and the Union. What tipped Tennessee into the Confederacy was... kind of a long and tragic story.

People mistakenly think Tennessee voted first not to secede by a slim margin then voted later to secede, but that's not really true. The first thing Tennessee voted on wasn't about secession itself. It was actually about whether or not Tennessee wanted to have a convention about secession and, if so, who would Tennessee want to be represented by. Tennessee was split on whether to have the convention but voted against it (this is the part most people say was about secession) and the part where it asked what representation Tennessee wanted every single one of Tennessee's grand divisions voted for Union representatives. So what Tennessee said wasn't "I don't want to secede!" it actually said "I don't want to talk about it, and even if I did, I'd only want to talk about it with Unionists." The governor didn't accept this and started making under the table deals with the legislature and CSA then sent Tennessee's militia to defend Virginia without the state's approval. Which automatically put Tennessee in a state of de facto rebellion. This caused Unionists to freak out and call foul so the governor had the second statewide election. But by the time the second election had come about so many Unionists had either fled, were hiding from voter intimidation or had run off to join the Union army that we may never honestly know what Tennessee was thinking at that point. It's one of those things historians debate and there are still some people in the Eastern Division (the part that had to be occupied by the CSA army and openly rebelled) who will swear to you their state was tricked/hijacked by the governor and radical minority and never legitimately should have been part of the CSA.

Kentucky declared neutrality but no one really believed it could remain neutral. What tipped Kentucky was being invaded by the CSA and so it went with the Union, but it honestly could have gone either way. (Well, I think Kentucky would have probably stuck with the Union regardless, but people say it could have gone either way.)

Considering how both states were kind of in the same boat of reluctance (sort of almost) there really wasn't a lot of animosity between them. In fact, when a group of Tennessee soldiers (Morgan's Raid, I think?) invaded there were people in Kentucky who openly welcomed them and would even give them stuff. It was kind of like "Oh, hey, Tennessee, good to see you." "Sup, Kentucky?" "Not much... but you do realize as part of the Union I have to shoot you now, right?" "Fair enough but only if you can catch me!" Then Kentucky's militia chased Tennessee's people for a while and I was like "Oh, lawl, those two..."

I probably need to do more research on it and that's all pretty general so don't base a thesis on what I said, but I'm fairly confident it's accurate.


Actually, if I remember -- that was something similar that happened with Maryland, West Virginia (eventually), Delaware, and Missouri with what happened with Kentucky I mean. I also read something along the lines though that it was some underhanded deals since it seemed to try to be completely neutral like other states around it. Chances are, we probably won't ever know for sure but I sincerely wouldn't be surprised.

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:08 am


Kitty Chicken
Actually, if I remember -- that was something similar that happened with Maryland, West Virginia (eventually), Delaware, and Missouri with what happened with Kentucky I mean. I also read something along the lines though that it was some underhanded deals since it seemed to try to be completely neutral like other states around it. Chances are, we probably won't ever know for sure but I sincerely wouldn't be surprised.


Ugh, Missouri and Maryland were really screwed up by the Civil War. I just read a brief summary on it and had to file them away for studying at a later date. The border states really did get it worst regardless of how much people in South Carolina and Georgia whine about Sherman's March. That was nothing compared to the utter rape of Missouri, Tennessee and Virginia.

The weirdest thing about Tennessee during the Civil War was that it wound up being occupied by both armies. The CSA was occupying the Eastern Division which hated the CSA while the Union army was occupying the Western and Midwestern Divisions which had more Confederate sympathizers. So Tennessee basically got--pardon my language and cover your eyes, children--cluster ******** by both armies trying to get their occupied regions to submit (Tennessee was a rebel no matter what he did lol) This situation would pretty much last from 1861 to 1863 (I think) when the CSA was finally pushed out entirely.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:17 am


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
Actually, if I remember -- that was something similar that happened with Maryland, West Virginia (eventually), Delaware, and Missouri with what happened with Kentucky I mean. I also read something along the lines though that it was some underhanded deals since it seemed to try to be completely neutral like other states around it. Chances are, we probably won't ever know for sure but I sincerely wouldn't be surprised.


Ugh, Missouri and Maryland were really screwed up by the Civil War. I just read a brief summary on it and had to file them away for studying at a later date. The border states really did get it worst regardless of how much people in South Carolina and Georgia whine about Sherman's March. That was nothing compared to the utter rape of Missouri, Tennessee and Virginia.

The weirdest thing about Tennessee during the Civil War was that it wound up being occupied by both armies. The CSA was occupying the Eastern Division which hated the CSA while the Union army was occupying the Western and Midwestern Divisions which had more Confederate sympathizers. So Tennessee basically got--pardon my language and cover your eyes, children--cluster ******** by both armies trying to get their occupied regions to submit (Tennessee was a rebel no matter what he did lol) This situation would pretty much last from 1861 to 1863 (I think) when the CSA was finally pushed out entirely.


I could only stare a bit at the histories of the states in the middle, and good lord they were extremely complex and just in a horrible situation overall no matter how you look at it. Split down the middle figuratively in a way where many battles went all out. I know what happened in Georgia and South Carolina was absolutely horrible, but a lot of people often ignore the battles that happened outside of the Lower Seaboard and Eastern Theater. ( And even then, I noticed Louisiana is often ignored too for some weird reason.)

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:26 am


Kitty Chicken
I could only stare a bit at the histories of the states in the middle, and good lord they were extremely complex and just in a horrible situation overall no matter how you look at it. Split down the middle figuratively in a way where many battles went all out. I know what happened in Georgia and South Carolina was absolutely horrible, but a lot of people often ignore the battles that happened outside of the Lower Seaboard and Eastern Theater. ( And even then, I noticed Louisiana is often ignored too for some weird reason.)


Oh, yeah, I forget sometimes myself about the stuff that happened to Louisiana and I think there are quite a few really tragic stories from Mississippi. Something people also forget all the time is that there were actually three theaters to the Civil War. Texas and New Mexico started duking it out and there were other incidents I just have never gotten around to studying. (But I love how Texas always seems to be harassing New Mexico. It seems like their dynamic in all of Texas' rebellions goes "I'm seceding and you're coming with me! biggrin " and New Mexico is always like "LEAVE ME ALONE. <_<")
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:47 am


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
I could only stare a bit at the histories of the states in the middle, and good lord they were extremely complex and just in a horrible situation overall no matter how you look at it. Split down the middle figuratively in a way where many battles went all out. I know what happened in Georgia and South Carolina was absolutely horrible, but a lot of people often ignore the battles that happened outside of the Lower Seaboard and Eastern Theater. ( And even then, I noticed Louisiana is often ignored too for some weird reason.)


Oh, yeah, I forget sometimes myself about the stuff that happened to Louisiana and I think there are quite a few really tragic stories from Mississippi. Something people also forget all the time is that there were actually three theaters to the Civil War. Texas and New Mexico started duking it out and there were other incidents I just have never gotten around to studying. (But I love how Texas always seems to be harassing New Mexico. It seems like their dynamic in all of Texas' rebellions goes "I'm seceding and you're coming with me! biggrin " and New Mexico is always like "LEAVE ME ALONE. <_<")


Back in the game when I played a Louisiana, it was fairly complicated from my studies? Aka, there was a huge portion of the state that was sympathizing with the Union, but it ended up going with the rest of the confederacy mostly because of who the people were in charge at the time. Once the Union basically got Louisiana though, they placed a Union government and there was a Confederacy government simultaneously, both refusing to acknowledge each other.

I have to check up on the notes though, I never did finish writing out the history for the Louisiana I was playing because I some what felt a bit awkward playing him after the Oil Spill happened. Florida is also a state that was pretty ignored as well, but I definitely know things were going down there too.

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:51 am


Kitty Chicken
I have to check up on the notes though, I never did finish writing out the history for the Louisiana I was playing because I some what felt a bit awkward playing him after the Oil Spill happened. Florida is also a state that was pretty ignored as well, but I definitely know things were going down there too.


Louisiana is a really complex state... I've never tried my hand at playing it, but I usually enjoy people's OCs. My only problem is that I feel some people play up the French thing a little too much... I mean, Louisiana was French but now it's definitely a culture entirely unique to itself.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:01 am


Armelle of the Forest
Kitty Chicken
I have to check up on the notes though, I never did finish writing out the history for the Louisiana I was playing because I some what felt a bit awkward playing him after the Oil Spill happened. Florida is also a state that was pretty ignored as well, but I definitely know things were going down there too.


Louisiana is a really complex state... I've never tried my hand at playing it, but I usually enjoy people's OCs. My only problem is that I feel some people play up the French thing a little too much... I mean, Louisiana was French but now it's definitely a culture entirely unique to itself.


Oh I think that too! Louisiana is very French but it's culture is mixed with Native American Tribes/Africans/French/Spanish in general. And then there are differences in between the cultures in Louisiana as well, it was to a point of -- how do you play that? Louisiana is a very complicated state overall and it isn't completely New Orleans even if New Orleans is a big portion of it. How do you get that balance down? I figured he'd be a fairly confident type, but not exactly egotistical - relaxed, let things come his way, and extremely eccentric. Like he'd be the weird but awesome uncle figure of the family of the south that everyone was chill with.

Kitty Chicken


Armelle of the Forest

Tipsy Loiterer

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:07 am


Kitty Chicken
Oh I think that too! Louisiana is very French but it's culture is mixed with Native American Tribes/Africans/French/Spanish in general. And then there are differences in between the cultures in Louisiana as well, it was to a point of -- how do you play that? Louisiana is a very complicated state overall and it isn't completely New Orleans even if New Orleans is a big portion of it. How do you get that balance down? I figured he'd be a fairly confident type, but not exactly egotistical - relaxed, let things come his way, and extremely eccentric. Like he'd be the weird but awesome uncle figure of the family of the south that everyone was chill with.


The only things I can say for sure about Louisiana is that I think it should have some affiliation with parties, big band/jazz music and voodoo. Otherwise it's kind of hard to nail down and I can see multiple interpretations.
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