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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:17 pm
Visual Brian I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, and I find that Christians, non-Christians, gays, straights, and nearly everyone that talks about the Bible and its relationship to homosexuality doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. In fact, hardly anyone does! I have one friend who SWEARS it says that the Bible says it's a sin to eat cooked food and we're supposed to eat everything raw. I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. And other who believe that the Catholic tradition of not eating red meat on Fridays during Lent is found somewhere in the Bible. There's a LOT of misconceptions. I believe the Bible is God inspired, not just man-made btw. My biggest pet peeve is the people who say something like this thinking they're all smart: The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. The first greatest commandment being to love God. Paul reaffirmed Jesus' teachings by telling us that the law (this includes Leviticus) was meant to show us our need for a Savior. The Jews referred to this Savior as the Messiah and believed in him before Jesus. IN ADDITION to this: The particular verse in Leviticus was made for a particular purpose, for a particular group of people, and for a particular moment in time. Israel was among the pagan nations and, if you know the history of Israel, they weren't the most faithful bunch of people. Because God did not want the Israels to worship the false pagan gods, and because he knew what an unfaithful bunch of people they were, he condemned many specific pagan practices, rituals, and customs through the Law. Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. They were a REALLY unfaithful people. xD When Moses was gone getting the ten commandments (among a bunch of other commandments dictating exactly how certain things were to be done (such as how priests should be dressed)), Israel made a golden cow to worship. They called it their god. LOL worthy in my opinion. (: There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Actually David and Benjamin were gay. There's even a gay synagogue in Israel named after them.
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:42 am
Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, and I find that Christians, non-Christians, gays, straights, and nearly everyone that talks about the Bible and its relationship to homosexuality doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. In fact, hardly anyone does! I have one friend who SWEARS it says that the Bible says it's a sin to eat cooked food and we're supposed to eat everything raw. I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. And other who believe that the Catholic tradition of not eating red meat on Fridays during Lent is found somewhere in the Bible. There's a LOT of misconceptions. I believe the Bible is God inspired, not just man-made btw. My biggest pet peeve is the people who say something like this thinking they're all smart: The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. The first greatest commandment being to love God. Paul reaffirmed Jesus' teachings by telling us that the law (this includes Leviticus) was meant to show us our need for a Savior. The Jews referred to this Savior as the Messiah and believed in him before Jesus. IN ADDITION to this: The particular verse in Leviticus was made for a particular purpose, for a particular group of people, and for a particular moment in time. Israel was among the pagan nations and, if you know the history of Israel, they weren't the most faithful bunch of people. Because God did not want the Israels to worship the false pagan gods, and because he knew what an unfaithful bunch of people they were, he condemned many specific pagan practices, rituals, and customs through the Law. Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. They were a REALLY unfaithful people. xD When Moses was gone getting the ten commandments (among a bunch of other commandments dictating exactly how certain things were to be done (such as how priests should be dressed)), Israel made a golden cow to worship. They called it their god. LOL worthy in my opinion. (: There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Actually David and Benjamin were gay. There's even a gay synagogue in Israel named after them. Just because there's a synagogue for it doesn't mean it's true. David had multiple wives and concubines. And he also sent one of his soldiers to his death just so he could have his wife (Bathsheba). I never heard of a gay man doing that. :/ I don't believe there's any evidence to support that Benjamin was gay, I don't know how they could come up with that conclusion. I never even heard of that theory before.
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:29 pm
Alucard Blood-Saint Okay, I was discussing homosexuality with a friend of mine and I just didn't understand what the big problem was with homosexuality. Now I know that the reason for disagreeing with homosexuality varies on the person but, everyone says it's mostly because of religion and that homosexuality goes against the bible.... Why is that exactly? Is it because those people (with the issue of religion) don't want to go to church with people who are homosexual because they are going against the bible? Unfaithful? Because it's alien to them? ^^^^ It doesn't have to be one of the above options but I was just wondering.... Your thoughts on Religion and Homosexuality? Excuse me if my facts are wrong..... crying
Well from my grandmas sake thats what i hear. She always tells me that im going to hell for my actions.
I love her yes, but I honestly don't believe in the bible. And i wont go on a rant about it.
But i personally think you love who you love. You can't stop that. Whether tis a girl a boy or someone whose older/younger
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:19 pm
Visual Brian Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, and I find that Christians, non-Christians, gays, straights, and nearly everyone that talks about the Bible and its relationship to homosexuality doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. In fact, hardly anyone does! I have one friend who SWEARS it says that the Bible says it's a sin to eat cooked food and we're supposed to eat everything raw. I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. And other who believe that the Catholic tradition of not eating red meat on Fridays during Lent is found somewhere in the Bible. There's a LOT of misconceptions. I believe the Bible is God inspired, not just man-made btw. My biggest pet peeve is the people who say something like this thinking they're all smart: The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. The first greatest commandment being to love God. Paul reaffirmed Jesus' teachings by telling us that the law (this includes Leviticus) was meant to show us our need for a Savior. The Jews referred to this Savior as the Messiah and believed in him before Jesus. IN ADDITION to this: The particular verse in Leviticus was made for a particular purpose, for a particular group of people, and for a particular moment in time. Israel was among the pagan nations and, if you know the history of Israel, they weren't the most faithful bunch of people. Because God did not want the Israels to worship the false pagan gods, and because he knew what an unfaithful bunch of people they were, he condemned many specific pagan practices, rituals, and customs through the Law. Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. They were a REALLY unfaithful people. xD When Moses was gone getting the ten commandments (among a bunch of other commandments dictating exactly how certain things were to be done (such as how priests should be dressed)), Israel made a golden cow to worship. They called it their god. LOL worthy in my opinion. (: There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Actually David and Benjamin were gay. There's even a gay synagogue in Israel named after them. Just because there's a synagogue for it doesn't mean it's true. David had multiple wives and concubines. And he also sent one of his soldiers to his death just so he could have his wife (Bathsheba). I never heard of a gay man doing that. :/ I don't believe there's any evidence to support that Benjamin was gay, I don't know how they could come up with that conclusion. I never even heard of that theory before. Then David could've been bi. Just because it's a different interpretation from yours, doesn't make it any less true or false. There is no way of knowing for sure, so it's best to keep an open mind.
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:06 pm
Visual Brian Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, and I find that Christians, non-Christians, gays, straights, and nearly everyone that talks about the Bible and its relationship to homosexuality doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. In fact, hardly anyone does! I have one friend who SWEARS it says that the Bible says it's a sin to eat cooked food and we're supposed to eat everything raw. I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. And other who believe that the Catholic tradition of not eating red meat on Fridays during Lent is found somewhere in the Bible. There's a LOT of misconceptions. I believe the Bible is God inspired, not just man-made btw. My biggest pet peeve is the people who say something like this thinking they're all smart: The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. The first greatest commandment being to love God. Paul reaffirmed Jesus' teachings by telling us that the law (this includes Leviticus) was meant to show us our need for a Savior. The Jews referred to this Savior as the Messiah and believed in him before Jesus. IN ADDITION to this: The particular verse in Leviticus was made for a particular purpose, for a particular group of people, and for a particular moment in time. Israel was among the pagan nations and, if you know the history of Israel, they weren't the most faithful bunch of people. Because God did not want the Israels to worship the false pagan gods, and because he knew what an unfaithful bunch of people they were, he condemned many specific pagan practices, rituals, and customs through the Law. Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. They were a REALLY unfaithful people. xD When Moses was gone getting the ten commandments (among a bunch of other commandments dictating exactly how certain things were to be done (such as how priests should be dressed)), Israel made a golden cow to worship. They called it their god. LOL worthy in my opinion. (: There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Actually David and Benjamin were gay. There's even a gay synagogue in Israel named after them. Just because there's a synagogue for it doesn't mean it's true. David had multiple wives and concubines. And he also sent one of his soldiers to his death just so he could have his wife (Bathsheba). I never heard of a gay man doing that. :/ I don't believe there's any evidence to support that Benjamin was gay, I don't know how they could come up with that conclusion. I never even heard of that theory before. Samuel 20v17 ...... And Jonathan had David reaffirm his oath out of love for him,because he loved him as he loved himself. Samuel 1v26 ...... I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:31 pm
Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, and I find that Christians, non-Christians, gays, straights, and nearly everyone that talks about the Bible and its relationship to homosexuality doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. In fact, hardly anyone does! I have one friend who SWEARS it says that the Bible says it's a sin to eat cooked food and we're supposed to eat everything raw. I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. And other who believe that the Catholic tradition of not eating red meat on Fridays during Lent is found somewhere in the Bible. There's a LOT of misconceptions. I believe the Bible is God inspired, not just man-made btw. My biggest pet peeve is the people who say something like this thinking they're all smart: The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. The first greatest commandment being to love God. Paul reaffirmed Jesus' teachings by telling us that the law (this includes Leviticus) was meant to show us our need for a Savior. The Jews referred to this Savior as the Messiah and believed in him before Jesus. IN ADDITION to this: The particular verse in Leviticus was made for a particular purpose, for a particular group of people, and for a particular moment in time. Israel was among the pagan nations and, if you know the history of Israel, they weren't the most faithful bunch of people. Because God did not want the Israels to worship the false pagan gods, and because he knew what an unfaithful bunch of people they were, he condemned many specific pagan practices, rituals, and customs through the Law. Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. They were a REALLY unfaithful people. xD When Moses was gone getting the ten commandments (among a bunch of other commandments dictating exactly how certain things were to be done (such as how priests should be dressed)), Israel made a golden cow to worship. They called it their god. LOL worthy in my opinion. (: There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Actually David and Benjamin were gay. There's even a gay synagogue in Israel named after them. Just because there's a synagogue for it doesn't mean it's true. David had multiple wives and concubines. And he also sent one of his soldiers to his death just so he could have his wife (Bathsheba). I never heard of a gay man doing that. :/ I don't believe there's any evidence to support that Benjamin was gay, I don't know how they could come up with that conclusion. I never even heard of that theory before. Samuel 20v17 ...... And Jonathan had David reaffirm his oath out of love for him,because he loved him as he loved himself. Samuel 1v26 ...... I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women. It may seem like he meant that in a romantic way, but I believe that it was a strong friendship. I certainly have female friends who I love WAY more than any man. All kinds of love could be more wonderful than that of a lover. The love of my dad means WAY much more than that of a lover. That doesn't mean I'm romantically involved with him, that would be pretty gross. And, to add on to that, the love of God means even more than that! No romantic relations there. It's also important to remember that he said that after Jonathan was killed. People say pretty emotional things after a friend's death. I guess you could interpret those passages as them having a romantic relationship, but that's kind of assuming too much in my opinion. I also suspected it after reading 1 Samuel (especially after they kissed goodbye), but after reading 2 Samuel I was completely convinced otherwise. To each his own I guess. O: Sorry for the late reply I haven't been on gaia lately. xC
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:52 pm
Visual Brian Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian Shilberu Erikku Visual Brian I'm a Christian, I read the Bible, and I find that Christians, non-Christians, gays, straights, and nearly everyone that talks about the Bible and its relationship to homosexuality doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. In fact, hardly anyone does! I have one friend who SWEARS it says that the Bible says it's a sin to eat cooked food and we're supposed to eat everything raw. I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. And other who believe that the Catholic tradition of not eating red meat on Fridays during Lent is found somewhere in the Bible. There's a LOT of misconceptions. I believe the Bible is God inspired, not just man-made btw. My biggest pet peeve is the people who say something like this thinking they're all smart: The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. The first greatest commandment being to love God. Paul reaffirmed Jesus' teachings by telling us that the law (this includes Leviticus) was meant to show us our need for a Savior. The Jews referred to this Savior as the Messiah and believed in him before Jesus. IN ADDITION to this: The particular verse in Leviticus was made for a particular purpose, for a particular group of people, and for a particular moment in time. Israel was among the pagan nations and, if you know the history of Israel, they weren't the most faithful bunch of people. Because God did not want the Israels to worship the false pagan gods, and because he knew what an unfaithful bunch of people they were, he condemned many specific pagan practices, rituals, and customs through the Law. Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. They were a REALLY unfaithful people. xD When Moses was gone getting the ten commandments (among a bunch of other commandments dictating exactly how certain things were to be done (such as how priests should be dressed)), Israel made a golden cow to worship. They called it their god. LOL worthy in my opinion. (: There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Actually David and Benjamin were gay. There's even a gay synagogue in Israel named after them. Just because there's a synagogue for it doesn't mean it's true. David had multiple wives and concubines. And he also sent one of his soldiers to his death just so he could have his wife (Bathsheba). I never heard of a gay man doing that. :/ I don't believe there's any evidence to support that Benjamin was gay, I don't know how they could come up with that conclusion. I never even heard of that theory before. Samuel 20v17 ...... And Jonathan had David reaffirm his oath out of love for him,because he loved him as he loved himself. Samuel 1v26 ...... I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women. It may seem like he meant that in a romantic way, but I believe that it was a strong friendship. I certainly have female friends who I love WAY more than any man. All kinds of love could be more wonderful than that of a lover. The love of my dad means WAY much more than that of a lover. That doesn't mean I'm romantically involved with him, that would be pretty gross. And, to add on to that, the love of God means even more than that! No romantic relations there. It's also important to remember that he said that after Jonathan was killed. People say pretty emotional things after a friend's death. I guess you could interpret those passages as them having a romantic relationship, but that's kind of assuming too much in my opinion. I also suspected it after reading 1 Samuel (especially after they kissed goodbye), but after reading 2 Samuel I was completely convinced otherwise. To each his own I guess. O: Sorry for the late reply I haven't been on gaia lately. xC Well,like I said, there is no way of knowing for sure,(Although, apparently, that seems to be the connotation in multiple tenachim.), so it's best to keep an open mind. sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:53 am
I wrote this article a few months back i hope it is helpful to you all smile
How can you be gay and a Christian?
I grew up going to a Southern Baptist Church and I became a Christian when I was 10 years old. I was young to be a Christian but I knew the basic principles of becoming a Christian and of receiving salvation. I also had very strong faith at that age as well. Committing my life to Christ was what I wanted and I understand fully what I was doing. I felt a clarity and happiness I hadn’t felt before when I became a Christian.
A month or two before my 12th birthday I started puberty and that changed everything. When all of the other boys started to notice girls I didn’t. I started to notice some of the other boys my age and that I was very attracted to them for some reason. This really confused me because I didn’t know what being homosexual was and I thought there was something wrong with me.
Later on I noticed sermons at church that referred to homosexuals and that homosexuality was considered to be a sin. Discovering this information scared me in many ways. I wasn’t sure how to deal with it either. I didn’t feel like I could tell anyone because they might not understood or they might have an extremely negative reaction so I kept my sexuality secret for nearly ten years.
During those tens years I heard that sermon many times and the same verses echoed again and again until my self-worth was very low. I had been taught that homosexuality was a sin and that it was a choice. I had also been taught that God leaves homosexuals and many other sinners to their wickedness and they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This knowledge caused me to go into depression for many years. I would pray for God to heal me and make me a heterosexual so I could be normal, so I could have a better future, and so others would continue to like me. The fear of someone finding out about my sexuality was even greater at that point. Thoughts of suicide were often on my mind and some days the pressure would be so much that I would ask God to just end my life because I was tired of hiding and lying about being gay. The whole ordeal was an incredibly heavy burden that was crushing me. There were times when I was lying in the bathtub crying and I would beg God to end my life because I was tired of suffering. I would be lying there thinking about how easy it would be to just plug in the hair dryer and dropping it in the water with me. Many nights I could not sleep and I would cry and wallow in despair. I suffered this way up until I went to VCU in the fall of 2008.
When I got to VCU I finally felt like I wasn’t alone and that I wasn’t different because there were many other homosexuals going to school there too. After making this realization that the homosexual population was so much larger than I had thought, I began to reevaluate things and to question what I had been taught for so many years. Was homosexuality a sin or not? What makes it a sin? Was this God’s decision or someone else’s? I started to think about these questions and many more and I was determined to get some answers.
I found the answers I was looking for in the fall of my sophomore year of college when I took a class on the New Testament. I learned many things by taking that course including the origin of the Bible, how it came together, about the writers of the different books, and that the Bible has been translated into many different languages and into many different versions.
Now I know that the Old Testament is basically consists of books on Jewish history such as Exodus and books about laws such as Leviticus and that the New Testament consists of books on the teachings of Jesus and his followers such as the Gospels along with the letters of Paul such as Corinthians and books relating to Prophecy such as Revelations. This wasn’t what I was led to believe in church growing up. The phrase “ Word of God” was used to describe the Bible and by doing so it makes the Bible come off as absolute and the words in it be viewed as perfect. The truth of the matter is that the Bible can only be described as the inspired word of God that was written by man. But that description only describes the first versions of each of the books of the Bible ever written. Since then the books of the Bible have been passed on orally, translated hundreds of times, altered by different people that were assigned to translate the text into other languages and versions. Often times deviating from the original Hebrew or Greek versions of the verses.
I also learned that the verses that have been used to condemn homosexuals have been misrepresented by many denominations of Christianity. The term homosexual isn’t used in the Bible and neither are any equivalent terms. The verses that are being misrepresented have no connection to homosexuality because in relation to the verses surrounding them they either reference greed, lust, or some type of sexually based on pagan ritual and not actual homosexuality.
Genesis chapter 19 gives the account of Sodom and Gomorrah. Many Christians claim that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality but in reality they were destroyed because the people were extremely wicked and overcome with lust. Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 both refer to men lying with other men as an abomination but in a Biblical context abomination means “unclean” not sin. Leviticus 11:10-11 says that aquatic creatures that do not have both fins and scales are abominations and they shouldn’t be consumed. I don’t think these verses are deterring to many Christians from eating catfish, shrimp, or lobster and I certainly don’t think that God would send them to hell for it. Leviticus also say that the following aren’t supposed to be done either: men shaving or trimming their facial hair, wearing garments that consist of two or more different kinds of fibers, and planting different types of grain in the same field. There are also verses in Leviticus chapter 5 that reference slavery and that slaves are property. Those verses were used in the 19th century to condone slavery. Leviticus is full of abominations that Christians either don’t know about or they just ignore them. Romans 1: 24-31 is a section often used to condemn or put down homosexuals but the message in those verses are completely contrary to what I am. They imply that homosexuals don’t seek out God or want God in their lives and I clearly do, so I really don’t see the validity in that interpretation of the verses. 1Timothy 1:10 uses the term manstealers and many conservative Christians take this term to mean homosexuals but I personally think that’s a bit of a stretch. Christian leaders need to realize that picking these verses that vaguely hint at homosexuality aren’t helping anyone, that they only fuel hate and prejudice.
Matthew 7:1 “Judge not lest ye be judged” and then verse 5 says that if you judge someone then you are a hypocrite because we have all humans have sinned and fell short of the glory of God. Christians shouldn’t use the Bible as a final authority because God is the final authority and God will give the wisdom and understanding that is needed to anyone if they simply ask. Matthew 7:7 says “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you with find; knock, and it will be opened to you”.
The Bible is important and Christians should study it and learn from it but sadly that isn’t all that is being done. Bible’s verses are being twisted to reflect bias opinions instead of the intentions of the religious figures that wrote them. Also the intentions of the religious figures that wrote the books of the Bible aren’t perfect or absolute so their teachings shouldn’t be believed blindly either.
The Bible is too saturated in human influence to be the word of God. This just means that the Bible isn’t a perfect guide for people to live by. Most people don’t try to learn the origin and history of their religious texts so it is no wonder the phrase “Word of God” is so accepted when referring to the Bible. The point being that if you are spoon fed your beliefs by someone else without taking the time to learn about them then you are likely to believe a lot of things that aren’t true.
I am still a Christian even though I don’t put blind faith in the Bible like many Christians. I do on the other hand have blind faith in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit because I have had a loving personal relationship with them for many years and I have always felt their presence in my life. I attend church at the Metropolitan Community Church every Sunday. Monday nights I go to an LGBT inclusive Bible study to help me learn and grow as a Christian. I spend a lot of time praying to God. My prayer time with God is sacred but not formal. I simply talk to God openly and give God the respect that God deserves. There are a few things that I do continually pray for, such as wisdom and understanding, for strength, that God will help me to love others regardless of how they may treat me, for those who are lost and that they may find their way to God, for those who are dealing with tragedy and loss, and that God will find a partner for me to love and live my life with. I know that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit love me and that they will continue to do so forever even if I am a homosexual.
To those of you out there that are considering suicide, please don’t do it. Life gets better and it is worth living. Your future isn’t predetermined and life is full of possibilities. Also people are changing little by little for the better so don’t give up. I realize now that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and that if a person can out last the temporary problem then things will get better.
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:46 am
Lately, there is nothing to depress me like the religious bigots who hate me from the bottom of their hearts and judge me based on their intolerance without ever knowing me or hearing of me, making ridiculous assumptions about my personality and the sex I have, telling me I hate God and everything so deeply hurtful I can't really stand it.
Especially during the last few years when I've tried to find my place in the religious community, find a spot where I'd fit with my beliefs, this is something I really cannot take. The impression I've gotten is that everyone hates me and judges me and I'm going to hell. ******** great!
I've seriously considered leaving the church once and for all, but I don't want to, where's my connection then? Not everyone is bad. I can't leave, I don't want to, the connection is important to me. I believe, I have my place in there.
But ******** it.
Sorry for the rant, I've had an overdose of hate from haters today. I'm not even sure if this had anything to do with the actual topic. I just had to get it out.
edit: No, I'm not in the USA, no, I don't visit churches for all too obvious reasons where I live, and no, I'm not talking about quitting an individual church but the whole registry.
There's going to be a Christian held religious event and mass during the Pride week (next week) and I truly hope they'll give me some faith in the community. I'm so tired of being judged and hated with cold-hearted smiles, being attacked with "love and care towards a fellow Christian" and I'm so ******** tired of people who preach hate in the name of love. I'm sick and tired.
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:49 pm
Chakatai Khan Lately, there is nothing to depress me like the religious bigots who hate me from the bottom of their hearts and judge me based on their intolerance without ever knowing me or hearing of me, making ridiculous assumptions about my personality and the sex I have, telling me I hate God and everything so deeply hurtful I can't really stand it. Especially during the last few years when I've tried to find my place in the religious community, find a spot where I'd fit with my beliefs, this is something I really cannot take. The impression I've gotten is that everyone hates me and judges me and I'm going to hell. ******** great! I've seriously considered leaving the church once and for all, but I don't want to, where's my connection then? Not everyone is bad. I can't leave, I don't want to, the connection is important to me. I believe, I have my place in there. But ******** it. Sorry for the rant, I've had an overdose of hate from haters today. I'm not even sure if this had anything to do with the actual topic. I just had to get it out. edit: No, I'm not in the USA, no, I don't visit churches for all too obvious reasons where I live, and no, I'm not talking about quitting an individual church but the whole registry. There's going to be a Christian held religious event and mass during the Pride week (next week) and I truly hope they'll give me some faith in the community. I'm so tired of being judged and hated with cold-hearted smiles, being attacked with "love and care towards a fellow Christian" and I'm so ******** tired of people who preach hate in the name of love. I'm sick and tired. "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Ghandi Please don't let Christians define Christ for you D;
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:55 pm
Visual Brian "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Ghandi Please don't let Christians define Christ for you D; Funny you should quote that, it's been playing on repeat in my head for the whole day. There are very few things that go beyond my ability to empathize, but the bigotry of so-called Christians is one of them. I do not understand how a person can be so blind to their own grotesque hypocrisy, how they claim to be "just sinners too" but at the same time, judge anything and everything that is not them.Being so completely baffled as I am when I try to understand that is quite hilarious, actually. Try imagining a sphere with corners. That is how I feel when I try to understand the logic behind that attitude. To be honest, I have hardly ever faced such pure evil and malice as I face daily with these "Christians".
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:18 am
Alucard Blood-Saint Okay, I was discussing homosexuality with a friend of mine and I just didn't understand what the big problem was with homosexuality. Now I know that the reason for disagreeing with homosexuality varies on the person but, everyone says it's mostly because of religion and that homosexuality goes against the bible.... Why is that exactly? Is it because those people (with the issue of religion) don't want to go to church with people who are homosexual because they are going against the bible? Unfaithful? Because it's alien to them? ^^^^ It doesn't have to be one of the above options but I was just wondering.... Your thoughts on Religion and Homosexuality? Excuse me if my facts are wrong..... crying As a gay Christian, I've undergone this debate with myself. Here's what I found: 1. In the Bible, it's only man that says homosexuality is wrong, never God. 2. Jesus Christ himself never even addressed the issue of homosexuality. 3. Homosexuality is only mentioned in like 4 verses total (may be off a bit, but you get the point). 4. (My own acceptance story) God made each of us with his own hands exactly how he wanted us to be. Including our sexuality (because it is not a choice, I don't care what anyone says blaugh ) and loves us all just as we are.
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:49 am
If anyone needs an accepting church to go to where they can worship freely try going to a Metropolitan Community Church. There is one in most cities in the USA and there are several around the world. Also most Episcopal Churches are accepting of the LGBT community as well. biggrin
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:21 pm
Splendid Venus If anyone needs an accepting church to go to where they can worship freely try going to a Metropolitan Community Church. There is one in most cities in the USA and there are several around the world. Also most Episcopal Churches are accepting of the LGBT community as well. biggrin And in the Presbyterian Church (my own denomination), we've just passed a new rule in the Book of Order (our governing document) allowing homosexuals to become ordained as Elders, Deacons, and even Ministers smile
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:22 pm
Visual Brian I have another who believes it says people who commit suicide immediately go to Hell. That's an extension of "Thou shalt not kill." It includes yourself. although, the bible doesn't say you'll go to hell for it... Visual Brian The Bible says that man shall not lie with man as with women? I think that was referring to Jewish priest not being allowed to sleep with anyone, but I'm not sure. :/ Visual Brian Well it also says not to eat shrimp, touch dead pig skin, wear clothing made out of two different materials, etc. Therefore, all Christians are hypocrites because they do not observe these laws! In one of the gospels, Jesus said that it's not what goes into the mouth, but what comes out of it that determines purity. That abolished the Kosher law. Visual Brian They think they're all smart, but these crazy laws are almost all exclusively in Leviticus. Leviticus is one of the, if not most, boring books of the Bible. Because of this people don't bother to read it or think twice about its meaning. The reality of the matter is that laws recorded in Leviticus, if they're not restated outside of the old law (i.e. if they're included in the New Testament) are not binding to practicing Christians today because Christ "fulfilled the law." Christ said that the scriptures (Our "Old Testament" today) point to him. The Laws (including Leviticus) and the Prophets (prophetical books such as Isaiah) are all summed up by the second greatest commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself. Lots about Leviticus :/ Christ explained and abolished a few of these laws in the new testament. The new testament is a modle for christian life under grace, so some of the old testament is a bit... unreliable? It takes alot of time and devotion to sort it all out really, whih is why there are so many mistakes :/ Pretty much everything you said about the Jews was right :/ Though you did get a little harsh towards the end... I think god also used them to illustrate how people can go astray. Visual Brian Same-sex intercourse between men was a way to honor one or more of their gods. These silly laws were designed to keep his chosen people from being tempted to bow down before other gods. If you know Israel's history it's almost humorous as to why such importance was given to making sure they weren't tempted. Where in the bible does God forbid Homosexuality? I've been looking for it forever: It just looks like the Jews made their own law on the matter and started punishing it with the death penalty :/ They had a slight tendancy to forget that "The Lord commandeth, thou shalt not kill.">.> Again, everything you say about the Jews is right. Visual Brian There's a lot of affirming scripture for homosexuals and a lot of scripture used against us as well. I believe the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality at all. It doesn't condemn homosexual sex or marriage either, but it never affirms it either. It's all up to how you interpret it and what you believe God is telling you. There's lots of interesting research to be done about the subject. I'd recommend all gay Christians to research the homosexuality debate themselves and read the Bible as well. Most people who preach for and/or against homosexuality seldom know what they're talking about. Or they can be sophists and lie and/or leave certain facts out to fool you. Both pro and anti-gay advocates are experts at leaving details out. Deciding to read the Bible myself was the best decision I've ever made. Well after accepting Jesus of course. (: <3 There's a WHOLE LOT more out there than just the little Leviticus verse here. The most interesting are the issues and troubles you encounter while reading the Bible for yourself - the verses you've never seen used to defend or condemn homosexuality before. Then you can even start looking at the original Greek and Hebrew words for describing certain things. You'll love it, I guarantee! TL;DR: People don't know squat. Read the Bible for yourself instead of just believing what they're saying because they're just saying what someone said to them, and THEY're just saying what someone said to THEM. Hardly anyone actually researches homosexuality in depth. You should be the smart one to do so. -Applauds- Best post about this issue I've ever seen. Visual Brian http://www.gaychristian.net/ http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/ (Take entries with a grain of salt. Sometimes they leave out things. I'm pretty positive David wasn't gay.) Carry your research out and see the truth for yourself. There's a lot to be learned and websites like this only scratch the surface. <3 Great links, so i keep them in my post. Just in case someone somehow misses your post>.> I'm not bashing the things I corrected, It's just that there's too much in the bible for one person to know it all, you should always have someone look over yours. For example, your research was more centered around homosexuality, mine is centered around law.
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