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 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:55 am
I'm sorry, but I'm done with this thread and the content herein.
Democracy should be upheld right? Yes, if that's what the Crew wants and expresses, then by all means let it happen. However, don't let bureaucratic red tape stop us from being able to continue on as a guild. Strong wills and opinions are conflicting, and I don’t want to get into blaming a person’s character or emotional stance on anything anymore then it has been expressed to this point.
Fefnir, I appreciate what you’re trying to do, and that you‘re making sure to watch Mirouni as he goes about trying to fix what has happened. That’s all well and good. This is somewhat of a probation period you’ve put him under, and after what has been going on I can see that as a measured step in fixing the broken relationship the Crew is currently under. However, this needs to lessen as things progress. I hope you’re aware of that. The GC will constantly have their a** ridden for every little decision made, but at least allow for some freedoms for making small decisions. At the moment, sure, slap up…what was it now…at least five polls that need to be conducted to make you, and everyone else here happy.
If I held a greater position in Crew, other than basic Crew, I would be happy to go ahead and make all of these polls as someone who has been watching and will take the time to compile an all inclusive list of options that the Crew would like to vote on. I don’t feel that I’m readily heard at the moment, other than when it comes to what I’m currently working on with the transfers from BSS, so that is why I refrain from doing just that. I know my strengths lie in taking a giant mass of text and ideas and streamlining it down into something everyone can agree upon, but I’m not going to over step my bounds as of now, because I feel that in doing so, the acts that I’ve put into motion with BSS transfers will be over scrutinized and I’ll be unable to get the job done in a timely manner.
If any of the Crew has an issue with what I’ve been doing, please speak up. I’m willing to listen, and even if I dislike the options you’re presenting me with, I won’t make a stink over it. So far, I’ve laced together what those who’ve voice their opinions on the subject want, so please, make yours know so that I can continue with my work.
Red, if you want an election, then make a poll as in the democratic means. If Mirouni doesn’t accept it, then have another poll that asks the Crew if they even want another election for GC to happen. As of now, I know you believe that you could run the ship better then Mirouni has. I can’t say if that’s true or not since I’ve never seen you as a GC before… At this point I’m just throwing out options as I see them.
My own personal feelings and after looking at the chastising others in this thread have been making towards you as well, you’d have to tone down your bluntness and how you come off as harsh before you would be heralded in for GC power. I’ve already said before that I understand that the attitude and way of getting across your meaning is simply how you voice yourself. I’ve watched it happen, and I’m not going to fault you for being who you are. I’m only going to say that I don’t think a number of the Crew would accept you as GC either given that attitude unless you were willing to tone down. Even then, I’m sure the constant bitching towards you being GC would continue if past experiences in the guild with GC’s has anything to say about it.
(Also, thank you for the edit about having a happy Valentine’s Day. I hope you do as well…and if Fefnir gets you anything, I’m hoping it’s at least a handpicked flower, since you like them more the chocolates. I’ve always thought handpicked was more considerate then store bought…but that’s gonna depend on if there are any in bloom. ^-^; )
To the Crew, I have to agree with Bull. This is a give and take situation, and mainly between Mirouni and Fefnir as it stands. All I can offer right now is a multitude of suggestions towards a conclusion, but that conclusion will be up to those who remain involved.
If you all feel that there should be another GC election, then let’s make a poll and see how many feel that way? I don’t mean to usurp power here, but why not get it over and done with? Right now, all of the dissent of opinion is stopping us from being able to move forward towards even the most simple of goals.
If you would like to have a live conversation between parties, I’ll hold the forum for it and document the occurrence and post it here for all Crew members to read. I will do so, but only if all parties agree on a live conference, and any sort of guidelines for conduct in that conference. Should that be accomplished, I’ll do whatever you need to make amends and allow us to keep moving forward.
Why don’t we get started on a poll over if we should use Kyro’s idea of making a list of expectations, on what the GC should be expected to do and behave as written by the Crew as a whole and vice versa? If you all want democracy and an equal voice, then let’s get the decision making process going before we can’t keep moving. At the same time, would it be a good idea to say that to make a poll, you need at least one other Crew member to second the idea before it can be placed up for vote? Personally, that would make me feel better as a regular Crew member, in being able to put up a official poll for Crew scrutiny and decision.
I also have a few other ideas over the Crew and the guild as a whole right now. I would really like to get some sort of simple plot going while the transfers from BSS are going on. Fang’s suggested one to me, and a few others in the Crew that involved his character, Zebediah, conducting a routine experiment within the Twelfth Division but having the experiment go horribly wrong. The results of the explosion caused by his blunder expends across the entire Seireitei, in smoke or some sort of airborne substance…or even with another premise that spreads the fumble of the experiment. The outcome would be randomly reversing characters genders and personalities for an indeterminate period of time, or just as long as the plot goes on. Of course, it would be more fun if the reversals struck a number of Captains and other squad members, and we could even do a listed dice role to figure out who gets changed or…people could volunteer.
To conclude said plot would be finding a way to reverse the effects of the reversal process. Pretty simple, but during that time there could be a conflict with something going on with Hueco Mundo mucking up the Living World. One, it would get more than just the Shinigami involved, and would give the Quincy a way of appearing again, while bringing attention to Hueco Mundo and possibly offering advertisement for the fact that we’re very low on Arrancar at the moment.
Really, it would be a fun time plot at most, and could last a few months, or until things have been straightened out Crew wise. Considering the tension as of late, and lack of continued roleplaying from Crew do to stress, I think it would be a good idea. You’ve expressed that you want to go back to a simpler time of just enjoying roleplaying without the politics of Crew, well…we could at least try to offer something like this short term so that we can get some activity for the entire guild.
Now that I’ve written a novel, this is the last time I will be posting in this thread. If you want to talk with me about anything that I’ve offered or proposed, I’ll meet you in a different thread.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:24 am
Thank you, Red and Fefnir, for getting your opinions out. As I will not be responding to the large bulk of them due to my already stated feelings on the subject, I hope that we can move on from this.
Now, there is something I will say with the utmost seriousness and severity.
The two of you, and others, have bastardized the GC position beyond all recognition. I am now done with this. I have been given the guild, and I will remain as the guild captain. If you cannot find this acceptable, by all means, leave. I have made the decision that I want four GVCs because three is a load of s**t. It allows for strong-arm tactics and is not a democratic fashion of doing things. You have taken away essentially all of the GC's power, and I am restoring a bit of it, while keeping the GVC power the same. The guild will still be run as a democracy, with me at it's head. I have already apologized for all my wrong doings, and sworn to handle things in an entirely democratic fashion. I have apologized to both of you personally, and I am letting that be the end of it on my end.
@Fefnir: You are not a GVC. You are crew. You cannot be a GVC yet because there are only two people elected, there needs to be three. Otherwise due process cannot be observed.
@Red: The GC election should never have happened in the first place. The guild was given to me, as was Feiy's right to do. Just because you felt it should have been done differently doesn't mean that you can force things on me that have never been done before. Call me spineless if you want, call my wishy-washy, I don't care, because I know I am none of those things. Also, a Happy Valentines day to you as well, and I hope you and Fefnir have a great day together.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:57 am
Quote: Fefnir, I appreciate what you’re trying to do, and that you‘re making sure to watch Mirouni as he goes about trying to fix what has happened. That’s all well and good. This is somewhat of a probation period you’ve put him under, and after what has been going on I can see that as a measured step in fixing the broken relationship the Crew is currently under. However, this needs to lessen as things progress. I hope you’re aware of that. The GC will constantly have their a** ridden for every little decision made, but at least allow for some freedoms for making small decisions. At the moment, sure, slap up…what was it now…at least five polls that need to be conducted to make you, and everyone else here happy. I understand your concern here, and as Mirouni keeps his word more and more, something that is not done by making decisions which cannot be challenged or are absolute, these criticisms will be less and less. What I think you are saying is that I should be easier on him right now and allow him some leeway, but the problem is apparent that he made a promise to act in a democratic manner and the next day broke his word three times by making decisions that are either absolute or which do not represent a proper democratic process. If now is not a critical juncture, I don't know what is. This is the portion of habit breaking where things must be tough, lest there be a relapse. The relapse has occurred, and I have made sure that the issues has been addressed sufficiently and in a professional manner so that problems can be avoided in regards to it and corrected in a timely manner. In regards to your last sentence, I would be glad to remake the polls which need changing, but I have been chastised for overstepping my bounds. I have been told I do not currently have access to the authority I would hold as a GVC even though I have been elected, and so I cannot do so in order to comply with procedure. Quote: If you would like to have a live conversation between parties, I’ll hold the forum for it and document the occurrence and post it here for all Crew members to read. I will do so, but only if all parties agree on a live conference, and any sort of guidelines for conduct in that conference. Should that be accomplished, I’ll do whatever you need to make amends and allow us to keep moving forward. I feel this is directed not only at Red, but myself, and so I will say I am fully willing to be present for and/or participate in a live conversation so long as there is moderation present at the time and there is full disclosure of the events that transpire available afterward. Quote: I also have a few other ideas over the Crew and the guild as a whole right now. I would really like to get some sort of simple plot going while the transfers from BSS are going on. Fang’s suggested one to me, and a few others in the Crew that involved his character, Zebediah, conducting a routine experiment within the Twelfth Division but having the experiment go horribly wrong. The results of the explosion caused by his blunder expends across the entire Seireitei, in smoke or some sort of airborne substance…or even with another premise that spreads the fumble of the experiment. The outcome would be randomly reversing characters genders and personalities for an indeterminate period of time, or just as long as the plot goes on. Of course, it would be more fun if the reversals struck a number of Captains and other squad members, and we could even do a listed dice role to figure out who gets changed or…people could volunteer. To conclude said plot would be finding a way to reverse the effects of the reversal process. Pretty simple, but during that time there could be a conflict with something going on with Hueco Mundo mucking up the Living World. One, it would get more than just the Shinigami involved, and would give the Quincy a way of appearing again, while bringing attention to Hueco Mundo and possibly offering advertisement for the fact that we’re very low on Arrancar at the moment. Really, it would be a fun time plot at most, and could last a few months, or until things have been straightened out Crew wise. Considering the tension as of late, and lack of continued roleplaying from Crew do to stress, I think it would be a good idea. You’ve expressed that you want to go back to a simpler time of just enjoying roleplaying without the politics of Crew, well…we could at least try to offer something like this short term so that we can get some activity for the entire guild. I like this idea, and I think it would be a good thing to get started. Would you care to post up a thread about it here to see if other people are okay with it? Quote: (Also, thank you for the edit about having a happy Valentine’s Day. I hope you do as well…and if Fefnir gets you anything, I’m hoping it’s at least a handpicked flower, since you like them more the chocolates. I’ve always thought handpicked was more considerate then store bought…but that’s gonna depend on if there are any in bloom. ^-^; ) I bought her an Okami art book... That's sort of like flowers, right? ^^;; ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As a final word, I will not give an opinion regarding Red's request for a new GC election.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:22 am
Mirouni Thank you, Red and Fefnir, for getting your opinions out. As I will not be responding to the large bulk of them due to my already stated feelings on the subject, I hope that we can move on from this. Now, there is something I will say with the utmost seriousness and severity. The two of you, and others, have bastardized the GC position beyond all recognition. I am now done with this. I have been given the guild, and I will remain as the guild captain. If you cannot find this acceptable, by all means, leave. I have made the decision that I want four GVCs because three is a load of s**t. It allows for strong-arm tactics and is not a democratic fashion of doing things. You have taken away essentially all of the GC's power, and I am restoring a bit of it, while keeping the GVC power the same. The guild will still be run as a democracy, with me at it's head. I have already apologized for all my wrong doings, and sworn to handle things in an entirely democratic fashion. I have apologized to both of you personally, and I am letting that be the end of it on my end. I will respond to this in the most professional manner that I can, because you are not addressing the problems that I have put forth, and that is not conducive to correcting them. You have said you will act in a democratic manner, and placing a fourth GVC with no option given to the crew to discuss or vote regarding it is not democracy. What you have not realized is that the three GVC system was designed specifically to limit the power of the GC and to keep him in check. By adding a fourth, you are granting yourself the ability to potentially override a veto, something that was meant to be avoided with the three GVC system. In other words, you are working around your own system because you do not like the limitations it gives you. You have also failed to address the other two decisions you have made that do not represent a democratic process in any way, those being the lack of the option to completely remove the zanpokuto restrictions in the poll, and your statement that we absolutely will use Kyros' suggestion without allowing discussion on it. Quote: @Fefnir: You are not a GVC. You are crew. You cannot be a GVC yet because there are only two people elected, there needs to be three. Otherwise due process cannot be observed. You are intentionally shunning due process with the three actions I have cited to you, and are not rectifying the situation in a satisfactory manner. We, being COV and I, cannot observe due process of veto until you have promoted us, and thereby, you currently have no checks or balances in that regard. Taking actions without such checks or balances is not due process. Quote: @Red: The GC election should never have happened in the first place. The guild was given to me, as was Feiy's right to do. Just because you felt it should have been done differently doesn't mean that you can force things on me that have never been done before. Call me spineless if you want, call my wishy-washy, I don't care, because I know I am none of those things. Also, a Happy Valentines day to you as well, and I hope you and Fefnir have a great day together. Before, I had an ambivalent opinion regarding whether or not enough time had been given to see if an actual effort was being put forth to change before Red's vote should have been called. I can see in this post as a whole that you are not making an effort to fix things. I second her call for a GC election, and cite your promise to me to deliver upon the time of my choosing that election. I have been more than patient with you through this thread and others, and I see that the effort I was making to help fix things was wasted. I have made every reasonable effort to solve the problems I have been seeing, but you are not willing to change because you are not willing to see fault in yourself and your actions. Now, if you are truly not wishy-washy or spineless, you will keep your word, and there will be an election. Frankly, I don't have high hopes, though. You denied it last time for an arbitrary reason, that I disagreed with you at the time, and I have shown very clearly that you have gone back on your word in the past, and now in the present. I truly did not wish for it to come to this, but you have made anything but an antagonistic relationship impossible. We cannot work with you, and we cannot work around you, and so you must be removed.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:43 pm
@ Aine:Quote: I also have a few other ideas over the Crew and the guild as a whole right now. I would really like to get some sort of simple plot going while the transfers from BSS are going on. Fang’s suggested one to me, and a few others in the Crew that involved his character, Zebediah, conducting a routine experiment within the Twelfth Division but having the experiment go horribly wrong. The results of the explosion caused by his blunder expends across the entire Seireitei, in smoke or some sort of airborne substance…or even with another premise that spreads the fumble of the experiment. The outcome would be randomly reversing characters genders and personalities for an indeterminate period of time, or just as long as the plot goes on. Of course, it would be more fun if the reversals struck a number of Captains and other squad members, and we could even do a listed dice role to figure out who gets changed or…people could volunteer. To conclude said plot would be finding a way to reverse the effects of the reversal process. Pretty simple, but during that time there could be a conflict with something going on with Hueco Mundo mucking up the Living World. One, it would get more than just the Shinigami involved, and would give the Quincy a way of appearing again, while bringing attention to Hueco Mundo and possibly offering advertisement for the fact that we’re very low on Arrancar at the moment. Really, it would be a fun time plot at most, and could last a few months, or until things have been straightened out Crew wise. Considering the tension as of late, and lack of continued roleplaying from Crew do to stress, I think it would be a good idea. You’ve expressed that you want to go back to a simpler time of just enjoying roleplaying without the politics of Crew, well…we could at least try to offer something like this short term so that we can get some activity for the entire guild.
I also wholly welcome and love this plot idea. It also makes me feel a certain renewed drive to finish the pair of arrancars I was working on for Las Noches. I also wouldn't mind adding my own captain character to the list of afflicted to help the lulz ensue.
@Miro:Fighting Fefnir Mirouni Thank you, Red and Fefnir, for getting your opinions out. As I will not be responding to the large bulk of them due to my already stated feelings on the subject, I hope that we can move on from this. Now, there is something I will say with the utmost seriousness and severity. The two of you, and others, have bastardized the GC position beyond all recognition. I am now done with this. I have been given the guild, and I will remain as the guild captain. If you cannot find this acceptable, by all means, leave. I have made the decision that I want four GVCs because three is a load of s**t. It allows for strong-arm tactics and is not a democratic fashion of doing things. You have taken away essentially all of the GC's power, and I am restoring a bit of it, while keeping the GVC power the same. The guild will still be run as a democracy, with me at it's head. I have already apologized for all my wrong doings, and sworn to handle things in an entirely democratic fashion. I have apologized to both of you personally, and I am letting that be the end of it on my end. I will respond to this in the most professional manner that I can, because you are not addressing the problems that I have put forth, and that is not conducive to correcting them. You have said you will act in a democratic manner, and placing a fourth GVC with no option given to the crew to discuss or vote regarding it is not democracy. What you have not realized is that the three GVC system was designed specifically to limit the power of the GC and to keep him in check. By adding a fourth, you are granting yourself the ability to potentially override a veto, something that was meant to be avoided with the three GVC system. In other words, you are working around your own system because you do not like the limitations it gives you. You have also failed to address the other two decisions you have made that do not represent a democratic process in any way, those being the lack of the option to completely remove the zanpokuto restrictions in the poll, and your statement that we absolutely will use Kyros' suggestion without allowing discussion on it. Quote: @Fefnir: You are not a GVC. You are crew. You cannot be a GVC yet because there are only two people elected, there needs to be three. Otherwise due process cannot be observed. You are intentionally shunning due process with the three actions I have cited to you, and are not rectifying the situation in a satisfactory manner. We, being COV and I, cannot observe due process of veto until you have promoted us, and thereby, you currently have no checks or balances in that regard. Taking actions without such checks or balances is not due process.
As Fefnir has so eloquently put you are shunning the very system you force upon us when it doesn't suit your needs. This double standard is abhorrent and very obvious proof that you do not have the ability to work within the constraints you place upon others.
Again you have failed to represent all sides in an argument while still claiming democracy has a presence within all proceedings.
Mirouni Have you been promoted? No. You and him are jumping the gun and making decisions that are not yet yours to make. Quite frankly, I am absolutely disgusted by the way the two of you have been responding to power. More disgusted than I have been with myself. This little post is something that I would not feel inclined to respond to in a crew appropriate way, but, frankly, I'm trying my damnedest to look at the situation in a civil manner.
I would think it was more pragmatic to clip each vote in the butt when it was over and done with than have to go back in the end and do everything at once. Don't you agree? Like landscaping a yard. Isn't it easier to finish out each process one by one than tackle all at once and get swamped?
And if you were planning on promoting us all at once then why did it take so long for you to respond after the tie-breaker was decided? Stalling for something perhaps? I dunno, this is merely speculation on my part, but the initial question is still quite valid.
Why did you suddenly feel the need to add another GVC to the roster? Hell, if we're going to 4, why not 5 or any other odd number from there on?
This shows, to me, a complete lack of multitasking, a trait valued and definitely required, to some extent, to be GC of a guild like this. Fighting Fefnir Mirouni @Red: The GC election should never have happened in the first place. The guild was given to me, as was Feiy's right to do. Just because you felt it should have been done differently doesn't mean that you can force things on me that have never been done before. Call me spineless if you want, call my wishy-washy, I don't care, because I know I am none of those things. Also, a Happy Valentines day to you as well, and I hope you and Fefnir have a great day together. Before, I had an ambivalent opinion regarding whether or not enough time had been given to see if an actual effort was being put forth to change before Red's vote should have been called. I can see in this post as a whole that you are not making an effort to fix things. I second her call for a GC election, and cite your promise to me to deliver upon the time of my choosing that election. I have been more than patient with you through this thread and others, and I see that the effort I was making to help fix things was wasted. I have made every reasonable effort to solve the problems I have been seeing, but you are not willing to change because you are not willing to see fault in yourself and your actions. Now, if you are truly not wishy-washy or spineless, you will keep your word, and there will be an election. Frankly, I don't have high hopes, though. You denied it last time for an arbitrary reason, that I disagreed with you at the time, and I have shown very clearly that you have gone back on your word in the past, and now in the present. I truly did not wish for it to come to this, but you have made anything but an antagonistic relationship impossible. We cannot work with you, and we cannot work around you, and so you must be removed.
I'm calling an Egyptian comparison on this one and claim third position for removing you from power. After all the ups and downs and round abouts the crew, in general, has felt and dealt with when involving you I cannot continue to let you sit on the throne even if it was in fact given to you by our last leader. You have failed to hold up your end of the bargain by not being a pragmatic leader and listening to us in a respectable manner that a leader should have even if 'the rabble' are being 'unbearable'. We will not stand by and feign complacency so you may continue to ruin what we love so dearly.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:37 pm
Continue to bicker if you wish, but I will no longer. I've said my bit, and that's all that I have to say on the subject.
For the GVC thing: I am perfectly willing to make it five, but I will not leave it at three.
For the removal: I must insist that you drop this. I have already told you that it won't be happening.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:49 pm
I haven't had time to read all of this, but I will later I assure you. Currently I just want to state for the record that I wish there to be a re-vote since there has been two challenges now. Once for a re-vote as per Fefnir's wishes, and now a second from Red. Hopefully this will end this petty squabble.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:53 pm
And I must insist that you follow through on your word, Mirouni.  That is what you said to me when I removed myself from the running for GC, and I expect you to adhere to it.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:31 pm
My patience with this matter has ended. Drop it now.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:44 pm
Drop it, simply because it does not conform to your wants? If there are enough of the crew wishing to call for a re-vote, then what will you do, Josiah. Simply ignore them and keep things as they are? It will bleed the guild dry if you do it, simply because we will leave and let it happen. I have stayed my words for the majority of this time, simply because I wanted to be civil and still be your friend. But if you continue down this malicious road of simply wanting to do your own desires and shun the others, then i am more than willing to fight myself. I will also throw in my nomination for a re-vote for guild captain. You can try all you wish to ignore this, but it will not simply go away as you wish. A wound cannot heal if the scab is continually ripped off. In the same way, this cannot be swept under the rug because we will continually voice our opinion. Your patience plays no role in this. It is the patience of every person in this discussion, not one, that matters. The simple fact that you were given a position does not give you the right to try and make us all bow under your pressure to conform to your wants.
"We should know what our convictions are, and stand for them. Upon one's own philosophy, conscious or unconscious, depends one's ultimate interpretation of facts. Therefore it is wise to be as clear as possible about one's subjective principles"
I'm done.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:49 pm
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:06 pm
Alright, there are things here that need to be said, and so I am going to say them.
This thread is destroying the guild, bit by tiny bit, because we cannot stop fighting like petty children over issues that can be resolved extremely quickly.
I have apologized, and promised that I will not behave rashly or make decisions that are not mine to make without consulting the crew, I intend to stand by that.
I have sat here, and taken more insults than I have taken cumulatively in the past three years from everyone I have ever known. I have been patient, I have been calm, I have been polite, with the one exception where I voiced my concerns with Fefnir. Now I am done. I am done with the fighting, I am done with the petty bullshit. And I am done with the anarchy being expressed and called democracy.
I have been put into this position by the only person who had the power to decide who took it. That is how it has always been done, and that is the way it was still done. No one before me has had their power restricted in the same way that you are all trying to restrict me, and so I will not stand for it. I have power. I will not misuse this power, but neither will I have it taken away from me and take insults when I decide to use it.
This guild has been slowly dying for months, and all I have been trying to do is revive that. My methods were called into suspect, and I realized that I was going about it poorly. So, I retracted my decisions, and apologized for it. This was completely ignored, and not only that, I was insulted again, because apparently I am a spineless person, who has thrown in the white flag. If any of you actually care about the guild, stop the fighting, it is getting us no where. Otherwise, leave. The last thing we need is a bunch of belligerent people yelling at each other like children rather than working to bring up activity in the guild.
For the GVC stuff, I am serious about what I said involving three GVC being too few. The decision falls on a single person, and that person ends up being who is running the crew. Since there has been concern expressed that I am making it four to give myself more power, I am willing to make it five, so that there is an uneven representation, and the tie-break will end up being done in the GVC panel rather than by myself.
Now, I am done with this thread, and I am retracting the protection provided within. If any of you continue the senseless arguing and fighting, there will be repercussions, although I will ban no one, as that is not constructive. I will be working with Wicked on making sure the BSS transfers are going smoothly, but nothing else. Fefnir is in charge of the rule deliberations, should he wish to take that mantle on himself. I will not interfere with the process.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:29 pm
Mirouni Alright, there are things here that need to be said, and so I am going to say them. This thread is destroying the guild, bit by tiny bit, because we cannot stop fighting like petty children over issues that can be resolved extremely quickly. I have apologized, and promised that I will not behave rashly or make decisions that are not mine to make without consulting the crew, I intend to stand by that. I have sat here, and taken more insults than I have taken cumulatively in the past three years from everyone I have ever known. I have been patient, I have been calm, I have been polite, with the one exception where I voiced my concerns with Fefnir. Now I am done. I am done with the fighting, I am done with the petty bullshit. And I am done with the anarchy being expressed and called democracy. I have been put into this position by the only person who had the power to decide who took it. That is how it has always been done, and that is the way it was still done. No one before me has had their power restricted in the same way that you are all trying to restrict me, and so I will not stand for it. I have power. I will not misuse this power, but neither will I have it taken away from me and take insults when I decide to use it. This guild has been slowly dying for months, and all I have been trying to do is revive that. My methods were called into suspect, and I realized that I was going about it poorly. So, I retracted my decisions, and apologized for it. This was completely ignored, and not only that, I was insulted again, because apparently I am a spineless person, who has thrown in the white flag. If any of you actually care about the guild, stop the fighting, it is getting us no where. Otherwise, leave. The last thing we need is a bunch of belligerent people yelling at each other like children rather than working to bring up activity in the guild. For the GVC stuff, I am serious about what I said involving three GVC being too few. The decision falls on a single person, and that person ends up being who is running the crew. Since there has been concern expressed that I am making it four to give myself more power, I am willing to make it five, so that there is an uneven representation, and the tie-break will end up being done in the GVC panel rather than by myself. Now, I am done with this thread, and I am retracting the protection provided within. If any of you continue the senseless arguing and fighting, there will be repercussions, although I will ban no one, as that is not constructive. I will be working with Wicked on making sure the BSS transfers are going smoothly, but nothing else. Fefnir is in charge of the rule deliberations, should he wish to take that mantle on himself. I will not interfere with the process. The compromise offered to me to be in charge of the rules was declined. I have also be placed on probation once more, though not demoted. I have no crew power right now. This is what has lead to such an event. [3:19:59 PM] Josiah Ingram: You and I need to talk [3:20:03 PM] Josiah Ingram: And settle our differences. [3:21:08 PM] Fefnir and Red: We will do so in the guild. I have made it clear I will not speak with you regarding guild matters on skype unless there is a moderator present. [3:21:20 PM] Josiah Ingram: I'm not talking about guild stuff [3:21:24 PM] Josiah Ingram: I'm talking about you and I [3:22:27 PM] Fefnir and Red: Then I'm not sure I understand. I thought we had established that we are no longer friends and that we will treat each other with professional courtesy. [3:22:59 PM] Josiah Ingram: What I'm saying, is that I don't not want to be your friend. [3:23:10 PM] Josiah Ingram: Our fights were petty, and we were both being stubborn jackasses. [3:23:13 PM] Josiah Ingram: I wish to resolve that [3:23:45 PM] Fefnir and Red: I have no personal quarral with you. The problems that have arisen have been professional in nature. [3:24:41 PM] Josiah Ingram: And I have already said my piece on that. I, however, have several personal issues with you. [3:24:47 PM] Josiah Ingram: And I'm not going to pretend that I don't. [3:25:45 PM] Fefnir and Red: Then that is yours to deal with. I do not see how these issues being made known to me will create a positive outcome. [3:26:15 PM] Josiah Ingram: I'm not going to waste my time going over them either. [3:26:39 PM] Josiah Ingram: I am willing to forgive you for all the stuff that you've done to me, because I want to stop the petty fighting. [3:28:48 PM] Fefnir and Red: I do not seek vindication for those actions. Neither will my acceptance of this forgiveness change my mind about anything I have said or done in the guild recently. [3:29:01 PM] Josiah Ingram: I know that. [3:29:27 PM] Josiah Ingram: That will be dealt with in the guild. [3:30:50 PM] Fefnir and Red: Then what is the purpose of this? From your wording, it feels as if you were expecting an admission of guilt on my part. [3:31:45 PM] Josiah Ingram: Nope [3:31:51 PM] Josiah Ingram: I don't want there to be tension between us. [3:32:32 PM] Fefnir and Red: There will always be a certain tension between us due to our differences regarding how the guild should be run. [3:32:48 PM] Josiah Ingram: What differences? [3:33:06 PM] Josiah Ingram: If you're talking about your recent call for anarchy.. then yes. Otherwise, we have no differences. [3:33:44 PM] Fefnir and Red: I will not comment on this in compliance with my earlier statment. I will not discuss matters of the guild with you unless there is a moderator present. [3:33:57 PM] Fefnir and Red: In other words, I will not get into specifics. [3:34:20 PM] Josiah Ingram: Fefnir.. I'm asking you this in the sincerist form I can. Please, please stop the fighting. [3:34:35 PM] Josiah Ingram: You aren't fixing anything, you aren't being conductive. You're causing problems. [3:34:45 PM] Josiah Ingram: Please, stop. [3:35:30 PM] Fefnir and Red: Jo, I know you sincerely believe you are doing the right thing. But your actions have spoken louder than your words. I stand by my course of action. [3:35:40 PM] Josiah Ingram: My actions? [3:35:49 PM] Josiah Ingram: I have done nothing. All I have done is say things. [3:36:50 PM] Fefnir and Red: I told you I will not get into specifics of the guild. I would give examples, but I have told Raven and you also that our speaking of the guild has always led to problems. [3:37:09 PM] Josiah Ingram: Because we have misunderstandings, primarily. [3:37:42 PM] Josiah Ingram: I want to work with you on things, but you are making this impossible. [3:40:04 PM] Fefnir and Red: I have indicated very clearly in the thread you posted up for criticisms just what problems I have seen as overaching themes. Recently I have given specific examples of where you have deviated from your promise of democracy, also in the thread. You have chosen not to answer for the majority of those things, and the responses you have given do not indicate a willingness to change. It is that unwillingness to address my concerns and those of others that has made this impossible. [3:40:20 PM] Josiah Ingram: Are you ******** blind? [3:40:36 PM] Fefnir and Red: I will ask you to be polite. [3:40:42 PM] Fefnir and Red: But no, I am not. [3:41:19 PM] Josiah Ingram: You know what? I am ashamed of myself here. I'm not the only person who has been taking part in this, but I've been deeply hypocritical in the way that I'm going about this. It is wrong of me to be so aggressive while trying to create peace, so I am dropping both my sword and shield in this. @Fefnir: I am truly sorry for any and all of the ways that I have caused you to take offense, and in the ways that I have threatened you. I should not have done so, no matter what the situation, and am entirely in the wrong. @Red: The same for you. I should not have taken offense so easily in the way that you talk to people. It's a part of who you are as a person, and I've been allowing myself to forget that in the petty pursuit of 'perfect' conduct rules. I am sorry. @The Crew: The apologies that I have extended to Fefnir and Red above are also extended to you. I have been petty in my rule-mongering, and I should not do so. I should trust that you are all capable of reason, and that you will not allow chaos to take precedence over construct. I am extremely sorry for anything I have done to offend any of you, or for any decision that either has been, or you feel has been, forced on you. From now on, I will handle decisions in the way that they should be handled, by a public vote. Once again, I am sorry. [3:41:21 PM] Josiah Ingram: Read this. [3:41:36 PM] Fefnir and Red: I have, several times in fact. [3:41:39 PM] Josiah Ingram: And then tell me you aren't being blind here. [3:42:13 PM] Fefnir and Red: Your apology, while nice, does not address the concerns people have brought forth. It dismisses them with a generality. [3:42:25 PM] Josiah Ingram: It admits them, and promises that I will change. [3:43:37 PM] Fefnir and Red: However, your next actions directly contradicted your promise of democracy at the end of the post. While the apology admits the problems in a generality, it does nothing to solve them. [3:43:52 PM] Josiah Ingram: Where is the contradiction? [3:44:18 PM] Josiah Ingram: In the GVC thing? I am more flexible on that than I seem. My only adamancy is that I will not leave it at three. [3:44:56 PM] Fefnir and Red: I've already gone further than I had said I would. If you read the thread, one page back, you will see very clearly what the things which contradict this promise of Democracy are. [3:45:47 PM] Josiah Ingram: There are certain things that I am able to do, that you as a crew have tried to steal from me. Among those, are making decisions on my own. [3:46:08 PM] Josiah Ingram: Alex did, Daven did it, and Evil did it. I know you don't like Alex or Evil in those positions, but that is the way that it has been. [3:46:26 PM] Josiah Ingram: I choose the structure of the GVCs, and the crew chooses their representation. [3:46:31 PM] Fefnir and Red: I have never said I disliked Lex in that position. [3:46:38 PM] Josiah Ingram: Then I retract that statement. [3:46:40 PM] Josiah Ingram: And apologize for saying it. [3:47:00 PM] Josiah Ingram: I was under the impression that you did, but if you say you did not, I will accept that. [3:48:21 PM] Fefnir and Red: I will not continue this discussion unless there is a mediator. I am making this clear to you right now, as I have before. I do not wish to have a fight. [3:48:28 PM | Edited 3:49:10 PM] Josiah Ingram: Raven is here. [3:48:31 PM] Josiah Ingram: there is a mediator. [3:49:19 PM] Fefnir and Red: I would prefer someone who does not have a relationship of such a manner with you. [3:50:00 PM] Josiah Ingram: Very well, since you are not willing to talk like a sensible person about this. [3:50:13 PM] Josiah Ingram: I will restore what I interupted earlier this week. [3:50:30 PM] Josiah Ingram: You were to remain out of crew until the 24th, and I will follow through on that. [3:50:40 PM] Josiah Ingram: I am beyond done with this petty bullshit. [3:51:19 PM] Josiah Ingram: I will leave your status, but your powers are suspended. [3:51:22 PM] Josiah Ingram: Effective immediately. [3:51:28 PM] Fefnir and Red: I have made it clear that I do not wish to fight, and I will not fight with you. [3:51:34 PM] Josiah Ingram: I'm not fighting. [3:51:45 PM] Josiah Ingram: I am doing what I should have done. [3:52:10 PM] Josiah Ingram: I will be patient with this matter no longer. [3:52:19 PM] Josiah Ingram: I have withstood more bullshit than anyone before me, and remained polite. [3:52:29 PM] Josiah Ingram: That alone counters what you have said about my character. [3:52:40 PM | Edited 3:52:43 PM] Josiah Ingram: Any captain before me would have banned you all, but I have remained patient. [3:52:48 PM] Fefnir and Red: I am not going to argue with you. [3:52:53 PM] Josiah Ingram: My patience is gone. I will ban no one, as that is not constructive. [3:52:57 PM] Josiah Ingram: But this anarchy ends now. [3:53:04 PM] Fefnir and Red: But I am also not going to set myself here and be insulted. [3:53:14 PM] Josiah Ingram: Where am I insulting you? [3:53:39 PM] Fefnir and Red: Save your talk for someone else, I do not wish to continue this conversation. [3:53:46 PM] Josiah Ingram: Very well. [3:53:58 PM] Josiah Ingram: On the 24th, your powers will be restored. [3:54:04 PM] Josiah Ingram: until then, do not act with them. [4:01:27 PM] Josiah Ingram: Sigh.. [4:01:30 PM] Josiah Ingram: Okay. [4:01:34 PM] Josiah Ingram: How about this as a compromise. [4:01:48 PM] Josiah Ingram: I will give you complete creative control over the things you have said about the rules. [4:01:58 PM] Josiah Ingram: You think that it can help.. it could, so I'm willing to give it a shot. [4:02:02 PM] Josiah Ingram: Ask the crew what they want, however you want. [4:02:08 PM] Josiah Ingram: and I won't interfere. [4:02:22 PM] Josiah Ingram: If it ends up being a bad call.. it's not like we can't restore the old ways. [4:02:28 PM] Josiah Ingram: And if it ends up being a good one.. all the better. [4:09:05 PM] Fefnir and Red: If there is a GC vote, and you are re-elected, I will will compromise with you as much as you like. However, until the vote has been conducted, I will stand by my decision. [4:09:36 PM] Josiah Ingram: Then I stand by mine. [4:09:41 PM] Josiah Ingram: You are out of crew until the 24th. I continue to call for a GC vote.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:22 pm
I also continue to call for a GC vote.
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:26 pm
COVrock I also continue to call for a GC vote.
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Reply
