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 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:44 am
Umm. Bit of both really. Its more so the Heathenism that interested me originally but Asatru, as a subset of it, also interested me because it seems highly structured and organized. May I ask why? Do you have a suggestion or info or something? XD
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:57 pm
What about Asatru gives the impression of high structure and organization?
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:18 am
The website, asatrualliance.com is what I am using to base my guesses off of. It details a particular method to become a priest, with their even being a course, what everything is. There's a place on the site to look up your ancestry..and I think one to find a local Kindred too. At the same time, groups are kinda nervewracking and especially when I am liable to find some rascists among that group as you stated yourselves.
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:17 am
Just curious really. It effects the search a little. I've also known a few folks who tend to think the two terms are synonymous, which they're not exactly. They're very closlely related but no quite the same thing. Also, there are different types of groups claiming the title Asatru. The one you've mentioned isn't the only plcae to look.
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:33 am
I understand that Asatru is sorta a kind of Heathenism. I will look other places too, but the site looked reputable. Any suggestions of where else to look?
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:46 am
Be aware that priesthood courses won't be recognised outside of AA. Even that site doesn't seem all that structured, though....
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:02 pm
Why do you say that? And may I ask..whether your questions are trying determine what things I like about Asatru so I can help figure what things I want/need my Path to have.
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:40 am
I just don't see anything I'd describe as "highly structured and organised". One group might be, but that doesn't reflect on the religion itself, just on how that group functions.
Your other interests are quite different to Asatru, and you've mentioned you like structure in the past, which is why I'm fairly confused. Asatru is a folk religion, not orthodox or orthopraxic but sort of incorporating aspects of both. The lore is set, and history is set, but what different groups and individuals make of them varies.
Are you universalist, folkish, or somewhere in between? Which holidays do you celebrate? Who do you honour on these holidays? How often do you honour the vaettir? What do you serve in blót, how long does it take, how formal is it? Is ragnarok literal, metaphorical, or already come and gone? I realise you won't yet know the answers to these questions, I'm just asking as examples.
I identify as Heathen rather than an Asatruar but I just don't get what it is about it that's so very structured. I'm curious, and that's why I asked.
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:39 am
Oh. Hmm. Well in comparison to the stuff I have found in the past Asatru seemed more organized with actual priests and priestess that led actual formal rituals. Yes Wicca does have that, but I was before unfamiliar with that really. I was more familiar with the more Eclectic less consistient, less structured ways.
I dont celebrate anything as of right now. I celebrate Christmas, but more so the traditional family gathering at the time. I am not Christian and no one in my family is really that Christian. I celebrate Halloween in so far handing out candy. Thats it. Up til now I have never had anything amounting to a Spiritual Life. All I know for certain is Gods exist, being in Churches scares me, religion tends to scare me(thus far Paganism does not), and groups are iffy with me at best.
That help any? I want the structure and organization of a group if I can find it, but I dont want to get so involved in the group that I can do nothing else.
Edit:In no way did I mean any offense to Eclectic paths. I just dont think its right for me. I can barely trust myself to figure simple things out, how can I trust myself to decide the practices and such of my own religion?
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:12 am
Those questions were rhetorical. I wasn't asking you because you don't practice Asatru. I was endevouring to point out that Asatru isn't all that structured or organised. What constitutes a godhi varies. There's no set training for a godhi, just a couple of courses run by various organisations, and they don't necessarily recognise one another.
I'm still struggling to see what it is you're seeing in Asatru that's so structured. As I tried to point out with my questions, blóts will vary. Sumbels less so, but only groups can hold sumbels anyway. What holidays you celebrate, what gods you honour on those days, what you give in offering, the style of your blót - all these things are personal choices. They're not set. Ritual form is a LOT less structured than religions such as Hellenismos, and depending on the group how formal it is will vary.
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:47 am
Oh. Duh! Now I get what your saying. Sorry about that. Hmm. I was under the impression it was more consistient from Kindred to Kindred and that the courses were recognized, etc. Now that I see they are not, its slightly more structured than other things I have found but its as structured as I thought. Hellenismos..I am unfamiliar with that.
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:05 am
To add to what San is saying, Asatru (and Heathenry in general, really) is a reconstruction religion, and many of the practices and stories of the Old Norse have either been lost to time or edited by Christian monks over the years, leaving Heathens to depend on Anthropological research for clues as to what the Norse did, and from there we must fill in the blanks individually and sometimes come together and pool our knowledge. That is where kindreds come in, although each kindred is different in their practices. Some kindreds honor Loki, and in others even speaking his name will get you a group of heathens giving you a death glare.
There isn't even a manuscript detailing rites, rituals, rune usage, seiðr, etc. Our source texts have likely been touched by the hands of Christian monks many times over the 700+ years they've been in existence, and there are likely many other stories that were lost because no one bothered to record them on paper. It is all literally pieced together based on what we know, and more research on the practices of the Old Norse comes out on a regular basis. I'm not sure we'll ever be able to resconstruct their practices entirely, and in some cases, I'm not sure we'd want to, unless you can explain the ritual sacrifice of a lamb to your neighbors and the police.
It's not a "one size fits all" religion like others claim to be; the Norse Gods don't have a use for everyone. And when I say "have a use", I mean just that, particularly in the case of the Old Man: he has no qualms about tossing one of his followers in front of a spear if it serves his purpose.
Let's not forget that a good portion of the Old Norse hoped to die in battle so they would go to Valhalla and feast, drink, and fight all day in preparation for Ragnarok. That was considered the ideal afterlife. So if you're looking for a religion that's about peace and love to all beings, you're definitely looking in the wrong place.
More jokingly, I think the main prerequisite for Heathenry is a love of alcohol. If you don't like booze, you're going to have a tough time. wink
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:44 am
Ah. This again makes sense. You know its a bit like I realize all these things abstractly but they are not consciously there till I actually think "These sources have bias" or etc. And I do know how fierce and, terrifying the Gods and the Path of Heathenry can be. Thats kinda the draw for me. I have always been obsessed with Warriors and Warrior cultures, and in addition many of the qualities they exude are things I think I have and also appreciate such as Honor, as well things I lack they have so they can be a source I can draw on for inspiration such as Bravery.
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:24 am
I am now looking into Hellinismos as well. Any suggestions on good places for info?
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:53 am
PersianPapiiChulo I am now looking into Hellinismos as well. Any suggestions on good places for info?
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