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Guitarhero356
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:29 pm


TANSTAAFL
Mandocello
I think it's in Romans it says that God "gave them over to their sinful desires." There are several verses there about homosexuality.
I wonder if you could find them...

Most of the verses claimed for such things use strange interpriations, or have been diverted to that purpose from past meanings by homophobic societies. People put their own views of homosexuality into contexts it wasn't intended to be in.
Quote:
It's purpose in not to teach us to accept diversity. It's purpose is the purpose of any other sinful desire: Free will. If we could not choose to act against God, we would be mechanical robots.
Yet to actualy inforce that free will, to act in any way other than that God has perfectly outlined and set up for you, is to sin. After all, that is what sin and evil is; distancing yourself from God. So, to be perfect, you need to deny that ability to choose and simply follow.

To be a good christian you would need to be as much like that robot as you could be, living your life along a predefined path.

Ok, I'm gonna have to disagree with youthere about folowing a predetermined path. I think you should see truth to everything to some degree whether you like it or not. You can ignore the presence of evil all you want and focus on the lighter side of things, but that's not going to make it go away.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:35 am


This may help:
Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
Romans 1:26-27. The remaining passage appears to be an unequivocal condemnation of homosexuality. While many modern revisionists simply disagree with Paul or discount his proscription as applying only to prostitution or pederasty, some have attempted to reinterpret the passage as tacit approval of homosexuality. The argument is that Paul portrays homosexual Acts as impure but carefully avoids the language of sin; he intends merely to distinguish a Gentile practice considered by Jews to be "unclean" in order to draw Jews (or "weaker brethren") into his subsequent explanation of the gospel. Careful investigation of the passage, however, shows this explanation to be untenable.

Paul's general purpose in the context (Rom 1:18-32) is to show the need for the gospel in the Gentile world. As a result of idolatry, God "gave them over" to all kinds of sinful behavior. The trifold structure of the passage is a rhetorical device to drive home the point: a general complaint (vv. 24-25), consideration of a specific vice (vv. 26-27), and a culminating list of various vices (vv. 28-32). The distinction between the second and third sections may follow another Greek-styled distinction of sins of passion and sins of the unfit mind.

Paul is accused of everything from extreme prejudice to repressed homosexual urges for choosing same-gender sex as his focus in verses 26-27. But the scarcity of other references and the use of impersonal, rhetorical language here suggests, on the contrary, considerable detachment. The choice of homosexuality in particular is due to Paul's need to find a visible sign of humankind's fundamental rejection of God's creation at the very core of personhood. The numerous allusions to the creation account in the passage suggest that creation theology was foremost in Paul's mind in forming the passage.

Paul's terminology in the passage clearly denotes sin and not mere ritual impurity. The context is introduced by the threat of wrath against "godlessness and wickedness" (v. 18 ). Those in view in verses 26-27 have been given over to "passions, " a word group that elsewhere in Romans and consistently in Paul's writings connotes sin. Words like "impurity" (v. 24) and "indecent" (v. 27; cf. "degrading, " v. 24) had in Paul's time extended their meaning beyond ritual purity to moral and especially sexual wrongdoing. To do that which is "unnatural" (vv. 26-27) or "contrary to nature" was common parlance in contemporary literature for sexual perversion and especially homosexual Acts. Paul uses several expressions here that are more typical of Gentile moral writers not because he is attempting to soften his condemnation but because he wishes to find words peculiarly suited to expose the sinfulness of the Gentile world in its own terms.

The substance of Paul's proscription of homosexuality is significant in several respects. First, he mentions lesbian relations first and links lesbianism to male homosexuality. This is unusual if not unique in the ancient world, and it demonstrates that Paul's concern is less with progeniture than with rebellion against sexual differentiation or full created personhood. Second, Paul speaks in terms of mutual consent (e.g., "inflamed with lust for one another, " v. 27), effectively including Acts other than rape and pederasty in the prohibition. Third, the passage describes corporate as well as individual rebellion, a fact that may have implications for modern discussions of "orientation." In other words, although Paul does not address the question here directly, it is reasonable to suppose that he would consign the orientation toward homosexual Acts to the same category as heterosexual orientation toward adultery or fornication. The "natural" or "fleshly" proclivity is a specific byproduct of the corporate human rebellion and in no way justifies itself or the activity following from that proclivity. On the basis of any of these three implications, it is legitimate to use the word "homosexuality" as it is conceived in the modern world when speaking of Romans 1 and, by cautious extension, when speaking of the related biblical passages.

Jedediah Smith
Vice Captain


MangaTurtle

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:00 am


Guitarhero356
What if God purposely created she males and guys that are gay because they actually have a woman's spirit inside of them? Think about this, we are all down here to learn, what if they were put down here by God to learn how to overcome adversity and hate?


as for the gays, God is not as God of confusion. he would not create a homosexual because he outlawed it.

A question brought up by this question would also be "do spirits have genders?"

as for overcoming adversity and hate, The Bible says that the hate against Christians is going to rise in the end days. this is seen in the middle east and other countries in the area, and even in america. You will notice that pretty much any lifestyle and belief is fine and can be talked about, except Christianity. it always offends someone and is persecuted. if Christianity is put in public eye, it is skewed from what it really is (think the movie "Saved")

but in whole. the issue itself would be confusing. "God gives us homosexuals to learn to accept differances, but God outlawed Homosexuality..." it doesn't line up with scripture. God said no nad God ment No. any doubtrs on that and remeber Sodom and Gamorah, and any other other now dead culture that accepted homosexuality.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:02 am


Guitarhero356
TANSTAAFL
Mandocello
I think it's in Romans it says that God "gave them over to their sinful desires." There are several verses there about homosexuality.
I wonder if you could find them...

Most of the verses claimed for such things use strange interpriations, or have been diverted to that purpose from past meanings by homophobic societies. People put their own views of homosexuality into contexts it wasn't intended to be in.
Quote:
It's purpose in not to teach us to accept diversity. It's purpose is the purpose of any other sinful desire: Free will. If we could not choose to act against God, we would be mechanical robots.
Yet to actualy inforce that free will, to act in any way other than that God has perfectly outlined and set up for you, is to sin. After all, that is what sin and evil is; distancing yourself from God. So, to be perfect, you need to deny that ability to choose and simply follow.

To be a good christian you would need to be as much like that robot as you could be, living your life along a predefined path.

Ok, I'm gonna have to disagree with youthere about folowing a predetermined path. I think you should see truth to everything to some degree whether you like it or not. You can ignore the presence of evil all you want and focus on the lighter side of things, but that's not going to make it go away.


the verse is Romans 1: 26-27 give or take a verse.

MangaTurtle


Sage~of~Water

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:02 pm


Mandocello
Homosexuality is a choice of lifestyle, not something God "makes you" to be.


I agree.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:38 pm


Here are some newer testament verses about homosexuality


Rom. 1: 26-27

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Jude 7

7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Sage~of~Water

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TANSTAAFL

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:58 pm


Sage~of~Water
Rom. 1: 26-27

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
As part of Gods punishment to the people who denied him, he turned the entire population homosexual. This was a death sentence for their culture; you don't reproduce, your society dies.

Rather than a sin, homosexuality is used as a punishment, a way to destroy a culture that has turned against him. In isolated cases today, even this view is no longer applicable.
Quote:
Jude 7

7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
The sin of Sodom is virtualy universaly agreed to be inhospitablility.

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/sodom.htm
http://glow.cc/isa/sodom.htm - an interesting read.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:29 pm


Ok, TANSFAATAL, lets put it this way .... if after Adam and Eves nature than it is in mans nature to sin...than mans nature is sinful that means even if your born psychologically homosexual than you just have more responsibility to fight it. People are "born" with the urge to covet and steal, rape and kill when angry and so are animals does this make it civilized or right?

Does it make sense NOW?

Cradoc
Captain

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Theological Debate

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